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11-16-2010, 04:28 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by cem.kumuk Quote
With pleasure... I'll upload original 3 frames converted from RAW to JPEG. The HDR is made of combination of these 3 frames in Photomatix pro3.
cem.kumuk, could you provide us with the RAW file of the 0 shot, and maybe the -2 shot? I would like to try and see if the single file with a different tone-mapping can come close to the (tonemapped) HDR file. Thanks!

11-16-2010, 05:29 PM   #32
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I much prefer this shot to the HDR version.



...and I'm no purist, I love a tastefully done bit of PP.
11-16-2010, 05:50 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by cem.kumuk Quote
In built HDR at K-5 is not a real HDR application. I can call it pseudo HDR only. Because a real HDR must be at least made of 3 or 5 frames with ev differences about 1,5 or 2 in between each. Than dedicated softwares like Photomatix combine these frames to built a real HDR photo.
cem, nice photo indeed

However, I cannot agree on what you write. I see where you are coming from but I think you confuse two different things here.

The first is stacking. Multiple photos are aligned and stacked into a single one with a dynamic range which is 4EV or 8EV larger than any of the original ones, when using 3 or 5 photos 2EV apart each. Photomatix allows to save the result from stacking as a single hdr file. Actually, the demo version allows you to do so without restriction and it stamps no demo label into images if you are doing so. The result is a single hdr file you can further process in other applications.

The second is tone mapping. Tone mapping compresses the high DR into 8EV. Photomatix allows to load any hdr file to allow tone mapping. Most people are not aware of the two steps because they don't save in between.

A raw file from the K-5 can be considered a true hdr file because it well exceeds the normal DR we used to see from digital cameras. It should compare well with 3 image bracketed hdrs from other cameras. You can convert it to 32 Bit in PS and save as a true hdr file to be opened by, e.g., Photomatix.

Moreover, the built-in hdr application in the K-5 does a 3 image bracket with 3EV steps IIRC, aligns, stacks and applies one out of a choice of four tone mappings. Of course, Photomatix or other packages offer more control.


The last raw for the city gate (at -2EV) is more than sufficient alone to recreate the full HDR version shown as the first image. No need for the other two shots with a K-5. At least not at ISO 80. Just save as 32 Bit file in Ps (all settings and black level 0 upon ACR import!) and open in Photomatix.

Last edited by falconeye; 11-16-2010 at 05:58 PM.
11-16-2010, 05:56 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

The second is tone mapping. Tone mapping compresses the high DR into 8EV.
Most images I've seen, which are called HDR, have always seemed to have a very low dynamic range because of over compression.

11-16-2010, 06:03 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Most images I've seen, which are called HDR, have always seemed to have a very low dynamic range because of over compression.
I agree. Low contrast I mean. Good HDR art doesn't look like HDR, it just looks like a moment with some magic in the illumination. It's very rarely seen though...

For instance, I like the 1st image of the OP and the 2nd image du Beau.
11-16-2010, 06:07 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I agree. Low contrast I mean. Good HDR art doesn't look like HDR, it just looks like a moment with some magic in the illumination. It's very rarely seen though...
Indeed.. Most of what I see looks like an Acid Trip. Or those tacky prints you see on sale in a supermarket or mall
11-17-2010, 01:03 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
cem, nice photo indeed

However, I cannot agree on what you write. I see where you are coming from but I think you confuse two different things here.

The first is stacking. Multiple photos are aligned and stacked into a single one with a dynamic range which is 4EV or 8EV larger than any of the original ones, when using 3 or 5 photos 2EV apart each. Photomatix allows to save the result from stacking as a single hdr file. Actually, the demo version allows you to do so without restriction and it stamps no demo label into images if you are doing so. The result is a single hdr file you can further process in other applications.

The second is tone mapping. Tone mapping compresses the high DR into 8EV. Photomatix allows to load any hdr file to allow tone mapping. Most people are not aware of the two steps because they don't save in between.

A raw file from the K-5 can be considered a true hdr file because it well exceeds the normal DR we used to see from digital cameras. It should compare well with 3 image bracketed hdrs from other cameras. You can convert it to 32 Bit in PS and save as a true hdr file to be opened by, e.g., Photomatix.

Moreover, the built-in hdr application in the K-5 does a 3 image bracket with 3EV steps IIRC, aligns, stacks and applies one out of a choice of four tone mappings. Of course, Photomatix or other packages offer more control.


The last raw for the city gate (at -2EV) is more than sufficient alone to recreate the full HDR version shown as the first image. No need for the other two shots with a K-5. At least not at ISO 80. Just save as 32 Bit file in Ps (all settings and black level 0 upon ACR import!) and open in Photomatix.
Thanks a lot for detailed explanation Falk. I can't find anything to disagree in all what you're saying. All what you say can be done even on one frame as well. That's true... If calling one frame HDR as Pseudo HDR, then it means I'm wrong.

Sincerely...
11-17-2010, 01:21 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
cem, nice photo indeed
A raw file from the K-5 can be considered a true hdr file because it well exceeds the normal DR we used to see from digital cameras. It should compare well with 3 image bracketed hdrs from other cameras. You can convert it to 32 Bit in PS and save as a true hdr file to be opened by, e.g., Photomatix.
No need to convert it to some other format if using Photomatix, it can open DNG files.

11-17-2010, 04:01 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Beau Quote
No need to convert it to some other format if using Photomatix, it can open DNG files.
I know.
But for some reason, Photomatix renders differently if starting from a single raw file. Don't know why. I guess, Photomatix maintains an internal record of input DR which is based on EV steps rather than measured DR. At least, that was the state of things the last time I checked. I don't use Photomatix myself. It never behaved as predictable as I would have liked.
11-17-2010, 09:34 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

The first is stacking.

The second is tone mapping. Tone mapping compresses the high DR into 8EV. Photomatix allows to load any hdr file to allow tone mapping. Most people are not aware of the two steps because they don't save in between.
Falk, thanks for the information. I was one of those people. Many times the stacked image looked better to me than the tone mapped image but I never bothered to save the stacked image.


cheers

Abhi
11-17-2010, 01:52 PM   #41
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I do more I save all DNG, HDR, TIFF (if for printing) and then JPG . Today HDD space is not an issue. But in few years merging and processing algorithm will develop and I want to have a opportunity to develop those images in better way.
11-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by RayGunn Quote
........................
2. In the second post, Parallax writes, “Quite a difference. The second one is awesome.” Parallax, would you kindly educate me why the second photo is “awesome”? Since I am not trying to start a war about whose view is correct, I would appreciate your answer via PM..............
I would rather post it here. One of the commonly accepted definitions of art is that it is something that stirs or generates an emotional response in the viewer. That's exactly what the second one did for me. You said it yourself: "second photo is a town that looks gray and foreboding". That was the felling I had. The first photo was, well, a photo. A good one, but none the less, a photo. The second one I had a response to.

QuoteQuote:
Since I am not trying to start a war about whose view is correct
From reading your whole post, with particular attention to the way it is worded, I am not completely convinced of that, but I'll keep an open mind.
11-17-2010, 07:58 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
RayGunn,

thanks for the artistic or connoisseur touch you bring to the discussion. Almost reminds me of whine or high end audio critics
QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
RayGunn, you must misread my post. I meant it in a very positive way.

I agree, Parallax may have wanted to criticize you, but I certainly didn't and actually wanted to express that I liked your post.

Interesting, how miserably I failed
Falk, I think this may clear up the confusion:

Wine

Whine

And, no, it was not my intent to be critical of him any more than it was his intent to start a war as to who was correct.
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