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11-17-2010, 03:06 AM   #31
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imaging-resource will also reshoot still-life ISO series at F8 tommorow. the f/5.6 still life shots were an error!

11-17-2010, 05:09 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
On sharpness and detal you may be right but if you look at all samples you will see an ugly blotchyness, almost brightly coloured patches, on the dark areas for the D7000. Not sure if that looks nice in Real life



Just and indication of the leaps APS C has made in IQ, the leap made in IQ for APS just dwarves IQ improvemenets in FF.
I agree. I didn't bother looking at the Jpeg samples, because I won't be shooting jpeg anyway, particularly not at high iso. In RAW, I think the D7000 and K5 have about equivalent noise, but the D7000 has weird patches. Noise is much less regular and I guarantee harder to clean up. I see this from iso 6400 on.

K5 RAW shots have plenty of noise too, on a pixel level, but it is really even. Probably not too intrusive, even if you printed without running noise reduction on it.
11-17-2010, 05:38 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Just and indication of the leaps APS C has made in IQ, the leap made in IQ for APS just dwarves IQ improvemenets in FF.
The IQ has improved, and is now close to a 3.5 year old sensor. That's not leaps and bounds, that's just regular improvements. I'm sure when the D800, or D4 come out soon they will slap down the APS-C cameras back to their place.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
That's just the JPEG NR and sharpness settings. Try comparing the RAW images, the K-5 RAW images has far more detail than the K-5 JPEG (but note that dpreview mixed up the sorting of the D7000 RAW images - ISO 12800 seems to be what is marked as ISO 200).
Like I said, shooting RAW they all look about the same. Once you take the JPEG engine out of the loop things are pretty much the same with the higher MP 60d coming 3rd. The only real difference you would see is in how much base NR is applied to the RAW file, but there is no way to know for sure how much each manufacturer adds to the file.
11-17-2010, 06:15 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
The IQ has improved, and is now close to a 3.5 year old sensor. That's not leaps and bounds, that's just regular improvements. I'm sure when the D800, or D4 come out soon they will slap down the APS-C cameras back to their place.
I do not agree enturely with your reasoning... I am sure the new FF will be an improvement of the current APS-C. What I meant is that not even 3.5 years ago most said that APS-C had reached its limits, that there would be no big improvements. The leap APS-C has made in the last 10-12 months is a giant leap indeed, not matched by any FF leap in the last two -three years...

If you look at the IQ-advantgage posts of the not so sitant past, IQ of FF was about ideal.... So actually, in all honesty, not much point in improving FF IQ, many said IQ of FF was more than enough..., unless ofcourse you want to compete with MF...

11-17-2010, 06:45 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by eigelb Quote
imaging-resource will also reshoot still-life ISO series at F8 tommorow. the f/5.6 still life shots were an error!
Great news! I hope they get the focus right this time!
11-17-2010, 08:15 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Great news! I hope they get the focus right this time!
K-5 Images
Here it is

QuoteQuote:
Hi TT -

Thanks for that catch! Yes, in the hurry of getting images from the K-5 shot and up, we accidentally shot the Still Life images at f/5.6 vs f/8. We shoot at f/8 as standard for that shot, due to the subject's depth. (The lens is probably ever so slightly sharper overall at f/5.6 due to diffraction, but we feel that the depth of field is more important for the still life subject. The flat targets are shot at f/5.6.)

We'll re-shoot the K-5 still life ISO series at f/8, although they probably won't make it up onto the site until sometime tomorrow now. (We'll just reshoot the still-life ISO series, as that's where we and others generally look to judge sharpness and detail. The shots at various contrast, saturation, HDR, etc settings we'll leave as is, since the main point in those is the overall look, whether color, contrast or whatever.)

We'll look carefully at the focus in the reshoot, possibly using manual focus in live view. Checks on the flat target shots showed that that the K-5's AF was working very accurately with those subjects with the 70mm macro lens we use as a standard for our lab shots, but it's possible that it was pulled off a bit by the three-dimensional character of the Still Life subject. We'll watch it on the reshoot, see if it seems to be back-focusing there, and adjust as seems indicated.

Thanks again for the note; the f/5.6 still life shots were an error that we're glad you pointed out to us!

- Dave Etchells
11-17-2010, 08:55 AM   #37
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Someone pointed this out earlier and it seems to have gone on deaf ears. Until they can do a test using the exact same lens, all this testing is really for nothing but stroking ego’s or justifying purchases. Is it not? DPR’s choice to use the old FA 50 1.4 instead of the DA 55 if anything proves the K5 is a great camera based on everyone complaining about the softness of this lens and the need to stop down. Going by the Pentax Forums own reviews they should have used the FA 50 1.7... But if they did that then we’d still have issues with f stops and lens range. If anything it proves one or the other has better glass?

They also shot, at least at 100 iso, using different settings. Canon 1/20 f8, Pentax 1/13 f9, Nikon 1/20 f9. Again we’re not comparing apples to apples. If you’re upset at DPR for skewing results, there’s not much we can do about it... And if they didn’t, would it really matter? Most of the general public will do a little research and then head down to Wal-Buy and get themselves what they offer.

Pentax is not a professional line of cameras. If it were we’d be spending a heck of a lot more for lenses and FF bodies. And if that day happens (which it most likely won’t), then and only then will I be ultra picky about if one or the other has more CA, noise, blah, blah. Why can’t we be happy with the great advancements Pentax has made and have fun with it. All three cameras compared seem pretty close to me and I’m happy to know that I can get similar results, if not better in many situations, as my snooty Canikon friends using a little cheaper camera and cheaper lenses (for the most part). Pentax seems secure in being #3...why can’t we?
11-17-2010, 09:07 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by buster110 Quote
Pentax is not a professional line of cameras.
Hahahaha... I just spit my chocolate milk out laughing! "There are no professional cameras, only professional photographers..." isn't that the quote?

(But seriously, I get your (unstated) point about a "professional system" but you've over-simplified it re: price and brand-name. And this is even excluding the 645D completely...)

11-17-2010, 10:09 AM   #39
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All the photo that have been posted already here and on Flickr are enough for me. All test will be imperfect and somebody will all the time dfnd something wrong with it. Stop looking at these test , that very simple. The K-5 is a good tool but that the proof that who is behind the camera is more important
11-17-2010, 11:31 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
Hahahaha... I just spit my chocolate milk out laughing! "There are no professional cameras, only professional photographers..." isn't that the quote?
Nope, I meant what I said. Excluding the 645D which is a medium format camera and another subject. Pentax is an enthusiast line of photography equipment and that is the market they are going after. (personally I think they're really going after the P&S market) Canikon has the same enthusiast or prosumer line, but they also have a "Pro" line of equipment, geared towards what pro's want and need. If I had the money or the talent, I'd drop my beloved Pentax for a Mark III in a second. I, however, wouldn't do the same for the 7D or D7000 when I replace my k20D someday.

I'm not saying "Pros" don't use Pentax by any means, but I have yet to art direct a photo shoot where anything but Canon or Nikon wasn't being used (non medium format)

Anyone can claim to be a pro at anything and I don't want to get into that argument. I have to deal daily with "designers" believing they can draw a logo because they once liked to doodle in their notebooks. At the same time I do get paid for some of the stuff I shoot as a convenience to my clients (mainly me because it's either that or they'll send me something they shot with their point and shoot) who can't afford or are too cheap to hire a real pro....which I always push for. It doesn't make me a pro though... even if I had the Mark III.

Last edited by buster110; 11-17-2010 at 11:54 AM.
11-17-2010, 12:27 PM   #41
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I wanted to see how the current leading edge dSLRs - Pentax K-5, Nikon D7000 and Canon 60D compared and this dpReview comparison was most useful - the main shortcoming is the lack of skin tone - other than the picture of a face in the right of the target.

I included the Pentax K-x for 2 main reasons -

1) acknowledged currently as one of the best High ISO performers.
2) new K-r seems to be similar in performance - so this may give an indication of how the K-r may compare.

I do realize the K-x cannot be a 1:1 comparison since the K-x (K-r) are 12Mp vs the 16+Mp of the other leading edge dSLRs - but it was interesting/educational comparing them.

Looking at the High ISO -

ISO 6400 -






For grins I also compared at
ISO 12800 -


These new 16+Mp dSLRs are amazing with relative image quality that are visually matching the "best" 12Mp at High ISOs - the Nikon D7000 JPG engine appears to do well espcially when comparing the Martini label - with the K-x a kind of second - but at ISO 12800 one really ought to be working in RAW and reduce the noise using a more specialized program.

I have said this elsewhere for those who wished for a K-7 with a K-x sensor - the K-5 has more than exceeded that.

Last edited by UnknownVT; 11-17-2010 at 01:00 PM.
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