Originally posted by falconeye They're all copycats. linux copies unix, KDE copies CDE, ... you name it.
with all due respect, this is oversimplified at best. i can tell you (having worked with several) that unices are at the same time much alike and very different. interestingly, linux is not accepted as one of them anyway (it is not "unix-y enough"). as i noted, saying linux copies unix is like saying mazda copies the original model t. the design of linux (both the kernel, and a whole linux distro) is very far away from the original unix. linux is an operating system, it will be similar with other operating systems. as a side note, windows copies unix to at least an equal extent, if you look at it this way. i won't even start about kde and cde, it almost starts to sound like you're baiting me (shall we get on the subject of xerox and macintosh and windows while we're at it?)
from a sysadmin standpoint, there are two very strange sides of the coin: all operating systems are ultimately the same, once you reach a certain level of understanding. all operating systems are so different, at the same time, that i've seen people who can't administer a different linux distribution than what they are used to (and these are the majority), let alone different "unix flavors".
Quote: Apache is the most crappy source of Java code (the code quality of JDK is miles ahead of Apache).
i shamefully admit you lost me here. i don't see how you can relate apache and jdk directly? i'm no coder though, and no java fan either.
Quote: BTW, Apache started out as "a patched" httpd which is from CERN. There is no chicken and egg debate. IT industry is not led by open source. It's business model is much affected, yes. But not led.
maybe, it depends where you're standing. from where i'm standing, overall oss is at the forefront. in isolated cases, the huge amount of money pumped into development of code for a particular field can hardly be matched by an open community (especially per unit of time), but as a whole, my experience with both kinds of software consistently points to the overall conclusion that commercial software rarely matches the quality of open one, and in many (very sad) cases, the results from commercial development are so horrendous they could never be replicated in oss, and in this respect i have to admit, oss will always be behind (there is a dose of sanity which simply cannot be killed in oss development, its inherent, you would be hard put to have an open community develop a behemot similar to lotusnotes, for instance)
let me put it another way (if you really want a flame..
): for example, today, the cases where one can rationally justify running windows as opposed to linux are scarce, i would say 90% of users in my experience would not only be fine with linux, but be much better off overall. furthermore, for "serious" production systems, while there are better and much more expensive solutions than running linux on x86, in the vast majority of cases it is difficult to justify choosing them. in a strange twist, microsoft probably makes more money by quietly allowing piracy than it would by enforcing legal usage of their os (and the oem deals they hold on to so dearly are an indirect sign that they know that all too well). but that's another topic altogether.
Quote: I can find a few innovative oss projects, like httpd, mosaic. But as I said, research deliveries paid by tax (which is good use of it actually
). Still, in a world where research publications are for pay only, having their software for free is ... (good but) interesting
the oss concept was born in the academic community actually, and from the way academic communities tend to work together. again, software for free and open source are two different and mostly unrelated issues. in this particular case, having it "for free" is in no way "good", it's mostly pointless. having it open however helps progress.
i do agree, that's probably one of the few good uses of tax money. in general, i find i can be content in the thought that i'm a working bee needed to fuel research at cern, for instance (in any way shape or form), much harder to accept other uses of my cash/efforts.
Quote: Dogma ... I just replied to your "i'd probably never go for non-open software" which I found painting a bit too black and white.
strange. quoting out of context does not seem to be your style. i did explain anyway in detail what i meant by that, i doubt it was still unclear the last time you used the word. it's simply a "first choice", as long as it suits my needs, it ends there. if i really need something i can't get otherwise, i'll look into closed software. as simple as that. as i said, life's just to short, i cannot spend it all making individual case-by-case choices for each and every piece of code i need, it's a shortcut that works for me, if you will (find something open source first, if it's good, keep using and go about what you really want to do in the time thus spared)
generally, i consider both models necessary and think they should co-exist (for various reasons). in practice, i am honestly so sick of all the junk closed stuff i've ran across, had to administer, debug, and so on, that i try to stay away from it as much as possible. and the bigger the company (and thus "decision" chain) the worse it will get. i've mostly had good or decent experiences only with apps coming from relatively small (sometimes even "nutty") companies (if you've ever worked in a corporation you might know what i mean). in a perfect world, perhaps, junk wouldn't sell and die, in this world, intrinsic value has nothing to do with "sellability", when money is at stake, it seems there are people who can and will sell _anything_, and other people who will buy anything; it seems, for some reason, when money is not directly connected (not the driving factor), and rather the pride to do things well, how many people find your work useful, and so on, the quality of the results goes up, and the bullshit goes down, it's better to introduce the money making scheme after this point it appears, if you want something good. it's not as easy though, at least at first glance.
my impression is that oss tends to develop based on need and functionality requirements (plus the mandatory cool factor
), rather than what sells. so far, that works better for me, i'll take something that lives because it's good rather than because it's sellable, any day. if you make software that is good and you can sell it, my hat goes off in respect for you, but, i am sorry, you are in a minority, and unfortunately on very thin ice in my experience.