ISO 80 permits massive amounts of light fill in post

m8o · 11-27-2010, 12:02 AM

I know it's not really news at this point, but it really does!

I use Lightroom mostly as it's plain great and extraordinarily usable; but I stay away from its high levels of "Fill Light" as it causes hallowing. I instead use the Tone Curve and boost the Darks and Shadow sliders which do not cause any hallowing. These photos had those two set at 66 out of 100. And I felt I only needed to boost noise reduction to 33/100 after that action.

JohnBee · 11-27-2010, 12:09 AM

Looks interesting,
So are you saying you underexposed and pushed the exposure in PP afterward, or are you referring to something else.
I like the star effects around the lights btw.

m8o · 11-27-2010, 12:18 AM

I am, exactly; but I reduced the brightest exposure to -66/100, and only boosted the dark levels.. Else the lights overexpose even far more.

The star effect is the signature of a small aperture. The smaller it is the more distinct they get. These shots weren't that small at f/6.3. But I have others at f/11 and f/13. But as those were in portrait mode, and the weight of the lens was causing the camera to twist on the clamp screw and caused motion blur on the 5 second exposure, those pictures stayed home.

ytterbium · 11-27-2010, 05:43 AM

I'd be interested to see before-after images.

bats · 11-27-2010, 09:36 AM

I'm wondering what you mean by the term "hallowing" -- I'm not familiar with it.

FYI, I have a lot of of experience with what happens when you push up the brightness in night shots taken with the K10D at ISO 100. Noise and magenta cast appear in underexposed dark areas. Smooth gradients in the sky become banded. This seems to be quite a bit less with the K5. I'm very pleased with it.

m8o · 11-27-2010, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by ytterbium

I'd be interested to see before-after images.

Originals out of the camera. All I did was resize to 1000px wide before upload. Here you go:

nulla · 11-27-2010, 10:52 AM

Thanks M80

this is very good to know

cheers

SpecialK · 11-27-2010, 11:00 AM

Is there a horizon-leveling tool in Lightroom? It looks like you've got the same Pentax tilt I do :-)

m8o · 11-27-2010, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by bats

I'm wondering what you mean by the term "hallowing" -- I'm not familiar with it.

Actually, I used the wrong word. Halo/Halo'ing is what I meant. It takes its name from an angel's halo. Where a side-effect of certain edge processing done in excess is an extra bold negative outline (either bright-dark-bright or dark-bright-dark) around a hi-contrast transition.

m8o · 11-27-2010, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by SpecialK

Is there a horizon-leveling tool in Lightroom? It looks like you've got the same Pentax tilt I do :-)

There is an electronic viewfinder, but mine is off by almost exactly 3 degrees! And what I read was Pentax USA isn't able to align it yet. I tried my best to use the viewfinder to alight the tripod in the near dark but failed. BTW, don't be fooled by that blazingly lit building in the 2nd photo. The structure isn't perpendicular to the earth.

sir_bazz · 11-27-2010, 07:43 PM

I'm still using CS4 and wishing that the fill light slider went further than 100. Does it go further in newer versions of ACR ?

bazz.

m8o · 11-27-2010, 08:27 PM

Sorry Bazz. I don't know how to operate my CS5 well enough (hardly at all) to be able to say. Maybe someone else will jump in.

Shifting gears. I should be ashamed with myself. I've forgotten how sharp my Tamron 28-75/2.8 is... Usually need to zoom or use a telephoto to get detail, but when I view this @ 100% the distant antennas are detailed using 28mm! (f/8, ISO80, 15 sec) Taken the previous day to the ones above ... With noise only turned up to 20/100; and I could have got by with 0; I really only need that if I view the image at 100% or intend to print. This camera body rocks!

The Before & After from RAW here:
[I find this forums own published URLs are not reliable and result in images not showing-up over time, so I'm linking to the album not the images]

m8o's Album: Cityscape w/the K-5 + my trusty 'ol Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 - PentaxForums.com

(forgive the ridiculously tilted horizon; this was the evening I discovered the electronic level in my K-5 was off by 3 degrees!):

WerTicus · 11-27-2010, 09:42 PM

That's what we mean by dynamic range. 14.1 stops most in the shadows.

dexmus · 11-27-2010, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by m8o

The "Before" JPG from the camera resized to 1024px high (forgive the ridiculously tilted horizon; this was the evening I discovered the electronic level in my K-5 was off by 3 degrees!):

What is this dark spot on the sky in the before image? Do you have dust on your sensor?

m8o · 11-27-2010, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by dexmus

What is this dark spot on the sky in the before image? Do you have dust on your sensor?

I'm going back to B&H tomorrow. I thought @ 1st this was on the Tamron 28-75/2.8 lens. But then I started shooting this same scene & sky in the same place w/a bit more zoom using the Sigma 70-200/2.8. So sensor seems most likely. ...ya, sux on a brand new camera doesn't it. There's that, and the internal level is off by 3 degrees....

I read a scary thread about someone who had a K-5 that had a sensor which had dust or scratches under the protective film/filter over the sensor, making it impossible to clean. ...I'll know the answer about this splotch tomorrow and whether I'll be returning my body for a replacement or not.

11-27-2010, 12:02 AM	#1
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	ISO 80 permits massive amounts of light fill in post I know it's not really news at this point, but it really does! I use Lightroom mostly as it's plain great and extraordinarily usable; but I stay away from its high levels of "Fill Light" as it causes hallowing. I instead use the Tone Curve and boost the Darks and Shadow sliders which do not cause any hallowing. These photos had those two set at 66 out of 100. And I felt I only needed to boost noise reduction to 33/100 after that action.

11-27-2010, 11:03 AM	#9
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092 Original Poster	Originally posted by bats I'm wondering what you mean by the term "hallowing" -- I'm not familiar with it. Actually, I used the wrong word. Halo/Halo'ing is what I meant. It takes its name from an angel's halo. Where a side-effect of certain edge processing done in excess is an extra bold negative outline (either bright-dark-bright or dark-bright-dark) around a hi-contrast transition. Last edited by m8o; 11-27-2010 at 11:08 AM.

11-27-2010, 08:27 PM	#12
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092 Original Poster	Sorry Bazz. I don't know how to operate my CS5 well enough (hardly at all) to be able to say. Maybe someone else will jump in. Shifting gears. I should be ashamed with myself. I've forgotten how sharp my Tamron 28-75/2.8 is... Usually need to zoom or use a telephoto to get detail, but when I view this @ 100% the distant antennas are detailed using 28mm! (f/8, ISO80, 15 sec) Taken the previous day to the ones above ... With noise only turned up to 20/100; and I could have got by with 0; I really only need that if I view the image at 100% or intend to print. This camera body rocks! The Before & After from RAW here: [I find this forums own published URLs are not reliable and result in images not showing-up over time, so I'm linking to the album not the images] m8o's Album: Cityscape w/the K-5 + my trusty 'ol Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 - PentaxForums.com (forgive the ridiculously tilted horizon; this was the evening I discovered the electronic level in my K-5 was off by 3 degrees!): Last edited by m8o; 03-21-2011 at 08:11 AM. Reason: changed the "after" photo's finishing

11-27-2010, 10:23 PM	#14
dexmus Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 392	Originally posted by m8o The "Before" JPG from the camera resized to 1024px high (forgive the ridiculously tilted horizon; this was the evening I discovered the electronic level in my K-5 was off by 3 degrees!): What is this dark spot on the sky in the before image? Do you have dust on your sensor? Last edited by dexmus; 11-27-2010 at 10:27 PM. Reason: attached picture

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11-27-2010, 12:09 AM	#2
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Looks interesting, So are you saying you underexposed and pushed the exposure in PP afterward, or are you referring to something else. I like the star effects around the lights btw.

11-27-2010, 12:18 AM	#3
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092 Original Poster	I am, exactly; but I reduced the brightest exposure to -66/100, and only boosted the dark levels.. Else the lights overexpose even far more. The star effect is the signature of a small aperture. The smaller it is the more distinct they get. These shots weren't that small at f/6.3. But I have others at f/11 and f/13. But as those were in portrait mode, and the weight of the lens was causing the camera to twist on the clamp screw and caused motion blur on the 5 second exposure, those pictures stayed home.

11-27-2010, 05:43 AM	#4
ytterbium Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,076	I'd be interested to see before-after images.

11-27-2010, 09:36 AM	#5
bats Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: San Francisco Photos: Gallery Posts: 102	I'm wondering what you mean by the term "hallowing" -- I'm not familiar with it. FYI, I have a lot of of experience with what happens when you push up the brightness in night shots taken with the K10D at ISO 100. Noise and magenta cast appear in underexposed dark areas. Smooth gradients in the sky become banded. This seems to be quite a bit less with the K5. I'm very pleased with it.

11-27-2010, 10:52 AM	#7
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	Thanks M80 this is very good to know cheers

11-27-2010, 11:00 AM	#8
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	Is there a horizon-leveling tool in Lightroom? It looks like you've got the same Pentax tilt I do :-)

11-27-2010, 11:16 AM	#10
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092 Original Poster	Originally posted by SpecialK Is there a horizon-leveling tool in Lightroom? It looks like you've got the same Pentax tilt I do :-) There is an electronic viewfinder, but mine is off by almost exactly 3 degrees! And what I read was Pentax USA isn't able to align it yet. I tried my best to use the viewfinder to alight the tripod in the near dark but failed. BTW, don't be fooled by that blazingly lit building in the 2nd photo. The structure isn't perpendicular to the earth.

11-27-2010, 07:43 PM	#11
sir_bazz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 184	I'm still using CS4 and wishing that the fill light slider went further than 100. Does it go further in newer versions of ACR ? bazz.

11-27-2010, 09:42 PM	#13
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	That's what we mean by dynamic range. 14.1 stops most in the shadows.

11-27-2010, 10:52 PM	#15
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092 Original Poster	Originally posted by dexmus What is this dark spot on the sky in the before image? Do you have dust on your sensor? I'm going back to B&H tomorrow. I thought @ 1st this was on the Tamron 28-75/2.8 lens. But then I started shooting this same scene & sky in the same place w/a bit more zoom using the Sigma 70-200/2.8. So sensor seems most likely. ...ya, sux on a brand new camera doesn't it. There's that, and the internal level is off by 3 degrees.... I read a scary thread about someone who had a K-5 that had a sensor which had dust or scratches under the protective film/filter over the sensor, making it impossible to clean. ...I'll know the answer about this splotch tomorrow and whether I'll be returning my body for a replacement or not.