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12-03-2010, 11:34 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by qtopplings Quote
Who else is tired of OGL? *raises hand*

Seriously man, give it a rest. You sound like that guy who's name starts with a Rice and ends with a High.
Have a look at DNG and relax.
I can calculate my money and it's all.
I don't want to buy a pig in a poke.
I'd like to buy THE THING which satisfy me VERY MUCH.

That's why I want to know ALL minuses and pluses of K-5.
I'm perfectionist and like to see good photos.

I don't want to pay money for mediocre IQ.

12-03-2010, 11:45 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I'm perfectionist
How's that working out for you?
12-03-2010, 11:48 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I've downloaded DNG from DA21 + K-5...
WebFile - 0212
I'm a bit shocked. No any sharp photos at all.
Pay attention at time of exposure
Which word in "one reply" didn't you understand?

ogl, you are just too easily shocked. Life must be very easy-going where you live otherwise


I looked at an arbitrary photo (IMGP0767) which is painful enough because of Russian letters everywhere and a ridiculous low bandwidth of the service. Anyway. Developed in LR, applying my r=0.5px/100% standard sharpening.

What I see is a 1 stop underexposed photo (no problem) with low contrast and quite some lens problems in the corners because f/4.5 really isn't the sweet spot for the DA21. Nevertheless, near the center where the water tube to make the ice is on the ground, I find a hard horizontal contrast edge. It looks fine, no sign of shutter blur, never more than one gray pixel between white and black, sometimes hard black/white contrast edge. What else are you looking for?

Maybe, you look for something in a photo which isn't expressable in pixels?

And now I'll really stop helping ogl recover from his usual shock


Addendum
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I'm perfectionist and like to see good photos
I may be a living example of a perfectionist and let me say you are none.
If you were you wished you were not... It's not easy to be perfectionist. But it can earn you money actually.

I don't know you in person. But I would say you are critical. Which can be ok but you're actively searching for problems when there are none. And that can be sick if it's not an isolated fetish. Maybe, take more risks in your life and concentrate more on making money rather than not loosing money. No pun intended. Sorry if you would take this in a negative way. Isn't meant as such.

Last edited by falconeye; 12-03-2010 at 11:57 AM.
12-03-2010, 11:51 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by extravagrant Quote
How's that working out for you?
Tyler Durden: How's that working out for you?
Narrator: What?
Tyler Durden: Being clever.
Narrator: Great.
Tyler Durden: Keep it up then... Right up.
[Gets up from airplane seat]
Tyler Durden: Now a question of etiquette; as I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch...?



12-03-2010, 11:58 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Have a look at DNG and relax.
I can calculate my money and it's all.
I don't want to buy a pig in a poke.
I'd like to buy THE THING which satisfy me VERY MUCH.

That's why I want to know ALL minuses and pluses of K-5.
I'm perfectionist and like to see good photos.

I don't want to pay money for mediocre IQ.
So don't pay. And go away

You're really not helping anyone with your impossible pipe dreams. I want to see better shots with your K200D. I've compared the two, personally, and there is no question the K-5 is superior in every way. I'll trust an expert like Falk before I'll believe any of your negative crap.
12-03-2010, 12:04 PM   #66
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ogl: have you ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? whatever your perfectionist tendencies, at this point, you are obviously, logically, verifyably, mathematically way beyond the "steep" side of the curve: you are agonizing about details which make absolutely no difference to your photography, instead of spending time taking pictures and working on your skill as a photographer, assuming your tourment is actually fruitful and you do get to make "the best possible choice", the fruit of this is.. meaningless, no difference for your purpose in the end result, and certainly not a big enough one to justify all this effort and wasted time. you are also wasting other peoples time in the process, and annoying some people.

if gear "satisfaction" is so essential to you, just buy a nikon d3s and be happy. don't worry about lenses, just get a fast 50 or something (or something big if you can afford, the bigger the better). not only will you be undoubtedly happy with your purchase, but other photographers will 1. stop you on the street to chat with you and tell you what a great camera you have and how they dream to own one like it one day 2. be watched with envy as you walk by.

if the above doesn't sound good, cut the bullshit and go out and shoot. get a k-5 if you think it offers you something you really need for the kind of photography you do, but otherwise the k200d is absolutely fine imho. but do it quickly, stop wasting time with meaningless questions about subpixel sharpness (or you might end up forgetting where the bloody shutter release is and what it's for). i am much more interested at this point seeing some pictures (from your k05, k200d, holga, i don't give a shit) of the snow you must be getting in russia now, with some interesting "twists" and ideas, from you, than reasons to buy or not to buy the k-5 (who cares? just buy it, or don't buy it, like everybody else does. the snow, on the other hand.. now that's interesting)
12-03-2010, 05:35 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Have a look at DNG and relax.
I can calculate my money and it's all.
I don't want to buy a pig in a poke.
I'd like to buy THE THING which satisfy me VERY MUCH.

That's why I want to know ALL minuses and pluses of K-5.
I'm perfectionist and like to see good photos.

I don't want to pay money for mediocre IQ.
First of all I can't say I blamed you.
Mainly because it is your money and you are perfectly entitled to do what you want with it.
Secondly I am somewhat embarrassed for the way in which many people are reacting toward your criticism.
TBH. I never understood why people get so defensive over brand name or equipment. It just seems completely weird to me.

Then again... we do have people like Rice High and a number of other trolls on the forum(s) who in many ways, have played a part in creating animosity at this level of the issue also. So I guess we'll just have to chalk this up in the unfortunate circumstances category.

Whatever the case, I wanted to ask if you had considered the FF solution side of things?

The D700 is a competitively priced solution at this time and it seems less prone to the niggles present in most of the crop sensor systems at the moment.
However... if resolution is your priority, then you'll most likely have to settle for multi-framed shooting to compensate(no free lunch).
Then again... you could always wait for the D800 due in spring
And of course... there is always the D3S. Which I believe would most likely solve most all of the issues you've been struggling with.
Which isn't to say the K-5 is a bad camera. But it may indicate that it simply isn't the camera to suite your needs.

FTR. I too feel bad about some of the K-5's characteristics.
But, I also know that every piece of equipment I've ever owned came with its own share of limitations too.
The trick here(I believe) is too prioritize which performance aspects matter most to you(around your needs) and base your decision around that.

However, in defense of the K-5, I'd also say that there is enough evidence to conclude that it can can and does effectively keep-up with the best of them in terms of resolution and detail. Or, in the least, on a tripod that is.
But I also have to point-out, that the samples posted by people like RiceHigh or in those Russian links... simply aren't worthy of basing any sort of decision off of. In fact... I'd question who would take such terrible pictures 'if...' they were not from a defective camera?

Having said all that, considering the amount of K-5 owner on this site, I really don't understand why we haven't seen anyone step forward with some head to head sampling with previous models as of yet. Mainly because I think this would have been my very first test past the initial system check phase following my purchase of a K-5. But that's just me I guess.

Either way, I think that would be the most direct route taken, in putting to rest the concerns and rumors that are persisting in issues such as; shutter blur, AA filter, CA and PF etc. etc.

Last edited by JohnBee; 12-03-2010 at 06:16 PM.
12-03-2010, 05:48 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Having said all that, considering the magnitude of K-5 owner on this site, I really don't know why someone hasn't grabbed a nice sharp lens and conducted some head to head sampling with earlier models yet. IMO. this would be the more direct route to put to rest, all the concerns and/or rumors that have been floating around the issue of shutter blur and AA filters late

Because there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of sharp beautiful photographs here, on DPR and on flicker that show the capability of this camera. If Rice whatsit and assorted trolls want to denigrate the K5 than nothing will stop them whatever the evidence.

They will take Falks findings and use them against the camera, they will ignore the outcome and concentrate on words and phrases and twist the outcome to prove their point.

There are a few maybe three or four unhinged individuals with a paranoid hatred of all things Pentax that will not listen, look at or understand evidence that points to a good camera producing great images.

12-03-2010, 06:10 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by telfish Quote
Because there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of sharp beautiful photographs here, on DPR and on flicker that show the capability of this camera. If Rice whatsit and assorted trolls want to denigrate the K5 than nothing will stop them whatever the evidence.
I understand that and I'd agree. However, I also think that until direct initiatives are taken to snuff out said rumors(facts outweigh belief) that they will inevitably persist. So for me, I'm thinking something along the lines of:

1. If a shutter vibe or blur is the claim, then let us run tests to identify if said issue actually translates to any real world conditions.

2. If the AA filter impacts performance in some way, then lets run some tests to evaluate if /how the issue translates in real world conditions.

3. If the K-5 sensor is more prone to PF or CA, then lets run tests(against other models) to evaluate whether the charge is either true of the product of unsubstantiated rumors and beliefs.

These examples all revolve around the same principles.
And that is also where most people like RiceHigh(and brand haters) roam, because there is headroom in that area.
And we know this, because, if/when said claims are addressed, so too do the rumors dissipate.
Or at least... where people like this(RiceHigh etc) reformulate their attacks from K-5(in general) then becomes, a K-5(specific unit) as being defective.
Which I suppose(considering the mentality) is about as good as it gets
Because people like RiceHigh(mentally ill) do not simply move-on from their obsessions.

But hey... this isn't a discussion on OCD and its effects on social networks(though I think that would make an amazingly interesting topic).
I simply wanted to point out my observations on what I think an ideal outcome would be under the circumstances.
12-03-2010, 06:12 PM   #70
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Just can`t wait till the K5 price plummets, just like K7 did. Got mine for $ 760.00. not too long ago. Nice cam, does a nice job imitating ASA 400 film.
Keep up the good work guys .
Only thing we need now, is for some lab to figure out the flaws on the 60-250.
All these post make me want to jump ship, get canon and be happy.

Last edited by Ex Finn.; 12-03-2010 at 06:21 PM.
12-03-2010, 06:45 PM   #71
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JohnBee, there is a flaw in your thinking.

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
1. If a shutter vibe or blur is the claim, then let us run tests to identify if said issue actually translates to any real world conditions.
Correct and on topic in this thread. But only correct because the previous and mechanically very similiar K-7 camera made us curious. The corresponding claim however was never made and I wouldn't have published anything w/o the precedent.

QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
2. If the AA filter impacts performance in some way, then lets run some tests to evaluate if /how the issue translates in real world conditions.

3. If the K-5 sensor is more prone to PF or CA, then lets run tests(against other models) to evaluate whether the charge is either true of the product of unsubstantiated rumors and beliefs.
Wrong.

You claim your neighbor is violating his children and then run some tests to evaluate if /how the issue translates in real world conditions?

No, You just don't call out for tests for whatever defect you may imagine. That's simply insane.

If you're curious and capable enough, you can do some elaborate and convincing tests yourself and then publish the results if you found anything worth the message. Or otherwise keep quiet.

At least, that was the state of affairs as we all still lived together in one village
12-03-2010, 07:17 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
You claim your neighbor is violating his children and then run some tests to evaluate if /how the issue translates in real world conditions?
HAHAHA!

I have no idea how you associated a rape illustration to the topic but... I think I would remind those of you(reading) that the initiatives proposed for remediation need not be defensive at all. In fact... they are quite the opposite as we find ourselves addressing negative press or rumors with the intent of helping others.

nb. The market is dependent on consumer perception.

Therefore... when we have cases like RiceHigh(and others) laying claims of subparr or problematic products, it is common for potential participants to seek-out information from specified sources. And In this case, candidates will most likely end-up in forums such as this one.
Therefore... as acting members here, we gain the privilege of addressing issues(as we often do) with far more impact than that of rumors or obscure photographs.
In fact, given the sites web presence, I think we are perfectly poised as an authority on matters of Pentax related issues and information at this time.

However... I don't think any of this equate defending rape charges at this point.

My take on this, is quite simple really.... If we present ourselves as a positive source for Pentax related topics, then will inevitably come as a benefit a those asking questions along the way. And though I truly enjoy the idea of presenting a point. I also know that nothing spells indisputable facts like that of well documented tests results.

ie. Q. I heard the K-5 (insert whatever rumor here...) A. Not true, as can be seen here, here and here. - And that is truly a wonderful thing!

ps. Trolls are neither interested nor committed to the truth!

Last edited by JohnBee; 12-03-2010 at 07:27 PM.
12-03-2010, 07:21 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I understand that and I'd agree. However, I also think that until direct initiatives are taken to snuff out said rumors(facts outweigh belief) that they will inevitably persist.
I agree with Falk, how about if people that think something is wrong or people who would like to promote that something is wrong do something to show there is merit to their claim? It's got to be more than a terrible picture, though; anyone can produce these if they want to.

The fact that among the three of the "charges" you mentioned, two have already been dismissed and you still mention them seems to indicate that proving innocence is not only doing things the wrong way round but also ineffective.

P.S.: I agree, let's cut Ogl some slack. Let him wait for the camera he is a 100% happy with independent of whether or not the K-5 would be sufficient for him in practice. The K-7 would have been fine for me -- hey the K100D is! -- but I skipped it because I wasn't 100% convinced. Now I'll get a better version that was worth the wait.
12-03-2010, 07:33 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The fact that among the three of the "charges" you mentioned, two have already been dismissed and you still mention them seems to indicate that proving innocence is not only doing things the wrong way round but also ineffective.
I think you may be overly sensitive here. Considering the examples were viable illustrations(some of which I personally addressed), I'm wondering why you would feel this way?

Are you perhaps subject to sensitivities toward specified product criticisms?
No need to answer, I'm simply raising the questions subconsciously.

However, to address the question. I honestly believe the results have been highly effective in fact.
Because not only do they appear in Google search but mainly where, I haven't seen any such claims posted on DPReview following the conclusion of those threads.

Either way, the illustrations were both real and viable examples of topics that fell under that particular category which I think serve as fitting examples of how we might address issues of this nature.

Last edited by JohnBee; 12-03-2010 at 07:49 PM.
12-03-2010, 07:59 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I'm perfectionist
Did you heard about "analysis paralysis" ?
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