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12-01-2010, 05:52 PM   #1
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LumoLabs: Shutter induced blur (or not) with the Pentax K-5 camera



This is a repost of a thread from earlier today which was deleted by mistake during server maintenance work.

Therefore, I now just post the link to my blog article, w/o further comment:



Last edited by falconeye; 12-04-2010 at 05:28 PM. Reason: removed some strong wording about the server accident
12-01-2010, 06:06 PM   #2
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Great news that your findings are available already!
Would have been great to see the K20D in the graph as well.

On to reading the article right now.
12-01-2010, 06:08 PM   #3
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Nope, I should ignore this. Perfectly happy with my less-than-a-year-old K-7, yes indeed!
12-01-2010, 06:24 PM   #4
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Excellent work Falk! Appreciate your effort and imagine a fair amount of time would have been put into this.
cheers

12-01-2010, 06:32 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote
Excellent work Falk! Appreciate your effort and imagine a fair amount of time would have been put into this.
cheers
yes. It is a delicate topic and one better spends too many rather than too few hours...

I didn't recreate my post here. So please any, if you want to discuss a detail, just copy paste it here for discussion. Thanks.
12-01-2010, 06:34 PM   #6
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So this is (semi- (1/1.89)) good news. Probably better than that because the reduction of the issue should mean that people will be just fine in practice.

BTW, I find the difference in the shutter sounds to be very audible. Comparing the waveforms visually would probably be telling.

P.S.: Nice hand-holding there. Seems to be very comparable to a class-C tripod which I find surprising.

Last edited by Class A; 12-02-2010 at 02:28 AM.
12-01-2010, 06:38 PM   #7
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great falk.
when you stay in berlin,call me for new testcameras

best regards,andy
12-01-2010, 06:40 PM   #8
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Thanks Falk. And good news! I have one question. Do you think that sample variation would have any real effect? In other words would it be probable that if you tested say 10 different K-5s would there be much difference in the results? I don't know if that was discussed within the K-7 results, not owning one, and not planning on getting one, I didn't follow the discussion very closely.

NaCl(as someone who does warranty analysis, sample variation can be brutal)H2O

12-01-2010, 06:51 PM   #9
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Thanks for your time and post. Most should see this as good news.
However, shutter slap, and some degree of vibration, has been a part of every SLR and DSLR, simply because of the mechanics and physics involved. That's why I use mirror-up function whenever possible.
12-01-2010, 07:07 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
However, shutter slap, and some degree of vibration, has been a part of every SLR and DSLR, simply because of the mechanics and physics involved.
Of course, and it's the first thing Falk says. However, there is unavoidable and avoidable blur. Falk's investigations are only about the latter.
12-01-2010, 07:19 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Thanks Falk. And good news! I have one question. Do you think that sample variation would have any real effect? In other words would it be probable that if you tested say 10 different K-5s would there be much difference in the results? I don't know if that was discussed within the K-7 results, not owning one, and not planning on getting one, I didn't follow the discussion very closely.

NaCl(as someone who does warranty analysis, sample variation can be brutal)H2O
Our K-7 study didn't indicate a significant effect of sample variation. But we never exactly measured it. So, I'm not sure how large the sample variation can be for the K-5. It's more a feeling I have that the difference is real rather than sample variation.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
Thanks for your time and post. Most should see this as good news.
However, shutter slap, and some degree of vibration, has been a part of every SLR and DSLR, simply because of the mechanics and physics involved. That's why I use mirror-up function whenever possible.
MLU has no effect in hand-held photography with the K-7 or K-5. The mirror is dampened too well. It helps on a tripod though.
12-01-2010, 07:21 PM   #12
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Falk, thanks for your work on the tests.
I've not done any "controlled tests" on the K-5 by any means, but what I can say is I've not seen any blurring in the 1/100s sec shots I've taken with the camera - and that is really a very common shutter speed..

A fair conclusion, I think, is there is no shutter blur problem for any sort of practical photography.

It would still be interesting to see what else Pentax can do about this. In my line of work, we call this "vibration mitigation". Good enough for practical purposes, but not really a full-fledged solution. I suppose that will only be possible with the next generation body, not with the K-5, which, after all, inherits a lot of the K-7's mechanisms.
12-01-2010, 07:27 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote

BTW, I find the difference in the shutter sounds to be very audible. Comparing the waveforms visually would probably be telling.

P.S.: Nice hand-holding there. Seems to be very comparable to a class-C tripod which I find surprising.
You can download the MP3 and study the waveforms. The difference is just not very conclusive I think. The ear is actually the more sensitive guide.

A 12 mm lens hand-held produces no shake at 1/100s. That's why the results are similiar. Because skin and tissue and corresponding supports are, as we already found out in the previous work. That's what allows test automation and makes the study feasible at all.

BTW, I got another such "lap table" but noticed they changed the inerds. Not sure if it's still a valid skin emulator
12-01-2010, 07:38 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by kittykat46 Quote

It would still be interesting to see what else Pentax can do about this. In my line of work, we call this "vibration mitigation". Good enough for practical purposes, but not really a full-fledged solution. I suppose that will only be possible with the next generation body, not with the K-5, which, after all, inherits a lot of the K-7's mechanisms.
Foremost, my interest is to make sure Pentax understands the exact nature of the problem. I am now in the loop with engineering via a translation hop by a Hoya executive manager who is Japanese and speaks English. They are working on it but so far are ... still searching in the dark.

It might be something small and fixable within a production series. Or not.

It's luck that the problem is mitigated with the K-5.
12-01-2010, 10:58 PM   #15
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No good news.
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