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12-02-2010, 05:09 AM   #16
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doesn't mean anything to me. Pentax only has 2 cameras.

12-02-2010, 06:49 AM   #17
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Canon is the beSt again?! NOT

QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
This is a good point and may be the case. It would make it tougher for the public to compare models though.


Would be, could be, but aren't. The K5 falls somewhere between the 60d and the 7d



The K5 would only beat the 7d in weathersealing if there was a standard for all the manufacturers to base their claims on. Since there is no standard Pentax can also make any claim they want without any proof. Your friend had issues with little water on his 7d, while I shot with a friend for an hour in a full out downpour and his 7d had no issues. There have to be other variables at play like if your friend was using an L lens or not. If he wasn't it would be no different than if you were to use a non DA* lens on a K5, the water would just pour in.

Canon says the only model in their lineup that is fully weathersealed is the 1d series. The 7d only claims to be dust and weather resistant. If your friend can't understand the difference between resistant and sealed that's not Canons fault and not false advertising.
Canon DSLRs do not produce the best natural colors, unless I don't have a life, I'd shoot raw and pp, i'd waste all my time in front of the computer. K-5 DOES NOT fall between 60D and 7D, it's up there with 7D on all categories. 60D on the other hand is a piece of plastic, it's like an over priced 550D with a top view LCD and swirl screen, nicely done, Canon.
It's not that I don't like Canon, I would use my buddy's 7D to back up my D700 and 5D for sure.



QuoteOriginally posted by doc.mark.dimo Quote
Canon likes to ride the false assumption that many people make by placing terminology in their literature that misleads one to believe their equipment is more durable then it actually is. I believe it is unfair and altogether a trap. They should be honest and never put the terms sealed or weather resistant in the literature for anything below a 1d because anything below would succumb to the elements more times then not.

I like that the K5 is built like a 1d, and 1/3rd the cost.

It's not a fanboy point I'm making here, I own both systems and with the release of the K5, I'm finding the Pentax meeting my needs more than ever.

If, Im on boat shooting professional athletes and Im given the choice 7d vs K5, the K5 beats the pants off a 7d any day and yes the weather sealing is a big determining factor for that.
hi Doc, I totally agree with you. It seems like Canon has more money to advertise whatever the feel like it, everyday consumer can be mislead by certain claims.
Pentax on the other hand makes very realistic advertising, it doesn't have to be fancy, just Be Interesting!!! mostly Truthful on their claims...
12-02-2010, 08:31 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by luke0622 Quote
Canon DSLRs do not produce the best natural colors, unless I don't have a life, I'd shoot raw and pp, i'd waste all my time in front of the computer. K-5 DOES NOT fall between 60D and 7D, it's up there with 7D on all categories. 60D on the other hand is a piece of plastic, it's like an over priced 550D with a top view LCD and swirl screen, nicely done, Canon.
It's not that I don't like Canon, I would use my buddy's 7D to back up my D700 and 5D for sure.

hi Doc, I totally agree with you. It seems like Canon has more money to advertise whatever the feel like it, everyday consumer can be mislead by certain claims.
Pentax on the other hand makes very realistic advertising, it doesn't have to be fancy, just Be Interesting!!! mostly Truthful on their claims...
I know there is no point trying to explain anything to a rabid fanboy, but I'm bored so I'll do so anyways.

Lets see, how many portrait and wedding photographers use Canon and how many use Pentax....um, lots more. While Canons colours may not be to your taste, it seems to work for a lot of people. I find Pentax's default JPEGS to be too bright and saturated out of the box. I don't shoot JPEG so I don't care either way.

OK lets see the differences. The 7d has better, faster AF, 19 points vs 11. 7d has a 100% 1x viewfinder vs the k5 100% 0.95x. Better video on the 7d, better frame rate and smaller files. The 7d uses faster CF cards vs slower SD cards. 7d can shoot more than 320 JPEGS at 8 fps, the K5 maybe get 35 at the same setting (fine JPEG). Dual processors in the 7d, only one in the k5. Etc, etc, etc...
The only thing the K5 beats the 7d on is weathersealing. The high ISO IQ may be a little better on the k5, but the 7d is over a year old so I would expect a newer generation camera to be better. I'm sure the 7d mkII will probably be even better still, as will the next Nikon, then Pentax, then Canon, etc, etc, etc.

As I said, the K5 is in the same bracket as the D7000/60d. In the Canon lineup it is ahead of the 60d, but below the 7d. It is a mid range (above entry level) DSLR.

And one last thing. Canon doesn't make any claims about their weathersealing. If people fail at reading comprehension that isn't Canons fault. Pentax makes claims of being weather sealed, but gives no testing proof to back it up. You can't use it even 1 inch underwater without voiding your warranty so it's not fully sealed either. Until all the manufacturers agree to a standard all the terms used by all the manufacturers are arbitrary. Any claims made by users are anecdotal and don't represent a standardized testing method. The Sony A900 has no seals yet anecdotally it is better in harsh weather than the Canon 5dmkII which does have some seals.'

Ok I'm done telling you rabid fanboys the truth. Pentax makes a great camera, but it's no better than anyone elses. The K5 is what it is, a mid level camera and that is it. You can elevate it in your mind and believe it is worth $400 more than the same camera from the competition. You can even think it's the greatest thing since pre-sliced cheese, that is your right, but shouting your beliefs if front of evidence to the contrary only shows you to be a narrow minded fanboy and not even worthy of a response.

So I'm gonna leave this thread to the closed minded fanboys like yourself so flame away if you like (you fanboys do flaming well )
12-02-2010, 09:01 AM   #19
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what does it need to be 'pro?'

12-02-2010, 09:01 AM   #20
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@aragondina; I agree with your standing point; "Lets see, how many portrait and wedding photographers use Canon and how many use Pentax" However, please do not neglect that many pro's prefer CANIKON simply because of a prejudice that had been settled in the minds of the people since the DSLR era started. There has been no such prejudice during the time of analog SLR cameras. Now, of course it will be very hard for Pentax to overcome such prejudice and if others would score 1, Pentax must score 2 to return back to Pro's league. I hope I'll see Pentax in Pro's league with a DSLR. Some people talk about 645D as Pentax's flagship as PRo DSLR. 645D is surely a pro camera but surely not a DSLR. It's a medium format camera and cannot be considered in DSLR league. I wish 645D would something be DSLR that I could easily switch from my K10D. Now I switched to K-5 and hope to see K-5 in the hands of Pro's more and more. Apart from small bugs that I hope to be solved with next coming firmwares, K-5 is really a very nice camera.
12-02-2010, 09:02 AM   #21
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The truth is like usual, the K-5 is hard to classify using direct analogues from Nikon and Canon. This is because as the top level Pentax camera, it has a lot of the features that upper level professional Nikons and Canons have, while also being the size of mid to low level Nikons and Canons. To make it even more complicated, Pentax has once again priced its top camera in between levels of cameras, as I'm sure it will eventually settle somewhere between the Canon 7D level and the Canon 60D level. The 60D level is itself new, a sort of "Super Rebel" classification.

Really the only camera the K-5 can be directly compared to is the more expensive Olympus E-5. But really, I think too much is placed on these debates over what is essentially a marketing construct that is only given credence because Nikon and Canon feel the need to compete with each other with every "level" of camera. I feel that the Pentax system still has some flaws, but the K-5 is good enough for professional use.
12-02-2010, 10:11 AM   #22
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fanboy this, fanboy that, who sounds like a fanboy now?!?!

QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
I know there is no point trying to explain anything to a rabid fanboy, but I'm bored so I'll do so anyways.

Lets see, how many portrait and wedding photographers use Canon and how many use Pentax....um, lots more. While Canons colours may not be to your taste, it seems to work for a lot of people. I find Pentax's default JPEGS to be too bright and saturated out of the box. I don't shoot JPEG so I don't care either way.

OK lets see the differences. The 7d has better, faster AF, 19 points vs 11. 7d has a 100% 1x viewfinder vs the k5 100% 0.95x. Better video on the 7d, better frame rate and smaller files. The 7d uses faster CF cards vs slower SD cards. 7d can shoot more than 320 JPEGS at 8 fps, the K5 maybe get 35 at the same setting (fine JPEG). Dual processors in the 7d, only one in the k5. Etc, etc, etc...
The only thing the K5 beats the 7d on is weathersealing. The high ISO IQ may be a little better on the k5, but the 7d is over a year old so I would expect a newer generation camera to be better. I'm sure the 7d mkII will probably be even better still, as will the next Nikon, then Pentax, then Canon, etc, etc, etc.

As I said, the K5 is in the same bracket as the D7000/60d. In the Canon lineup it is ahead of the 60d, but below the 7d. It is a mid range (above entry level) DSLR.

And one last thing. Canon doesn't make any claims about their weathersealing. If people fail at reading comprehension that isn't Canons fault. Pentax makes claims of being weather sealed, but gives no testing proof to back it up. You can't use it even 1 inch underwater without voiding your warranty so it's not fully sealed either. Until all the manufacturers agree to a standard all the terms used by all the manufacturers are arbitrary. Any claims made by users are anecdotal and don't represent a standardized testing method. The Sony A900 has no seals yet anecdotally it is better in harsh weather than the Canon 5dmkII which does have some seals.'

Ok I'm done telling you rabid fanboys the truth. Pentax makes a great camera, but it's no better than anyone elses. The K5 is what it is, a mid level camera and that is it. You can elevate it in your mind and believe it is worth $400 more than the same camera from the competition. You can even think it's the greatest thing since pre-sliced cheese, that is your right, but shouting your beliefs if front of evidence to the contrary only shows you to be a narrow minded fanboy and not even worthy of a response.

So I'm gonna leave this thread to the closed minded fanboys like yourself so flame away if you like (you fanboys do flaming well )


Let the argument begin, Bored Canon boy! Don's shoot JPEG anyway, huh? What a Pro!
12-02-2010, 12:01 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
I know there is no point trying to explain anything to a rabid fanboy, but I'm bored so I'll do so anyways.

Lets see, how many portrait and wedding photographers use Canon and how many use Pentax....um, lots more. While Canons colours may not be to your taste, it seems to work for a lot of people. I find Pentax's default JPEGS to be too bright and saturated out of the box. I don't shoot JPEG so I don't care either way.

OK lets see the differences. The 7d has better, faster AF, 19 points vs 11. 7d has a 100% 1x viewfinder vs the k5 100% 0.95x. Better video on the 7d, better frame rate and smaller files. The 7d uses faster CF cards vs slower SD cards. 7d can shoot more than 320 JPEGS at 8 fps, the K5 maybe get 35 at the same setting (fine JPEG). Dual processors in the 7d, only one in the k5. Etc, etc, etc...
The only thing the K5 beats the 7d on is weathersealing. The high ISO IQ may be a little better on the k5, but the 7d is over a year old so I would expect a newer generation camera to be better. I'm sure the 7d mkII will probably be even better still, as will the next Nikon, then Pentax, then Canon, etc, etc, etc.

As I said, the K5 is in the same bracket as the D7000/60d. In the Canon lineup it is ahead of the 60d, but below the 7d. It is a mid range (above entry level) DSLR.

And one last thing. Canon doesn't make any claims about their weathersealing. If people fail at reading comprehension that isn't Canons fault. Pentax makes claims of being weather sealed, but gives no testing proof to back it up. You can't use it even 1 inch underwater without voiding your warranty so it's not fully sealed either. Until all the manufacturers agree to a standard all the terms used by all the manufacturers are arbitrary. Any claims made by users are anecdotal and don't represent a standardized testing method. The Sony A900 has no seals yet anecdotally it is better in harsh weather than the Canon 5dmkII which does have some seals.'

Ok I'm done telling you rabid fanboys the truth. Pentax makes a great camera, but it's no better than anyone elses. The K5 is what it is, a mid level camera and that is it. You can elevate it in your mind and believe it is worth $400 more than the same camera from the competition. You can even think it's the greatest thing since pre-sliced cheese, that is your right, but shouting your beliefs if front of evidence to the contrary only shows you to be a narrow minded fanboy and not even worthy of a response.

So I'm gonna leave this thread to the closed minded fanboys like yourself so flame away if you like (you fanboys do flaming well )
Are you a Pentax user?

12-02-2010, 12:27 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentax user Quote
doesn't mean anything to me. Pentax only has 2 cameras.
645d, K-5, K-r, K-x, K-7 all show up on currect product lists on different official Pentax sites. Pentax showed all 5 models last weekend at the Photography Fair in Stockholm, Sweden.

Last edited by oscar_s; 12-02-2010 at 12:58 PM.
12-02-2010, 01:34 PM   #25
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Honestly .. who cares. Not bothered what mine is classified as, I am just enjoying using it.

Oh, and after having the use of a 7D for nearly a week I have to say ... I chose the K-5.

I do wonder why all these Canon fanboys keep coming on the forum shouting the odds though, we don't see it from Nikon users .. but then maybe they are less worried about their gear looking bad against the competition and just get on with using it.
12-02-2010, 01:36 PM   #26
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the k-5 is an entry level.
pentax has never made a pro dslr.
the k-x/k-r is not entry, but merely a toy (the colors prove it).
the k-5 is not good enough to be a pro camera (see above)
the canon rebel is good enough to be a pro camera (sic)
actually, many canon rebels are, in fact, pro cameras (owned and used by pro photographers)
many digital compacts are, too

fascinating. all this bullshit over some terms which nobody has even bothered to define (ever..). i want to try that stuff you guys are smoking (or rather, not)

flame on...
12-02-2010, 01:43 PM   #27
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What an entertaining show. Bravo!
Come back again.

Yeah nanok, I hear ya.
I'm still waiting for that first pro Pentax cam, but in the meantime I'l just be enjoying what I have and the noney it generates for me.
12-02-2010, 01:55 PM   #28
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Closest I would put to pro in non medium format would have been the LX which was a pro level system when it came out
ever since the best they have made has never been beyond an advanced amateur or enthusiast level
to be a pro camera it really has to be a system like the high end canon gear and the high end nikon and has to come with pro level service options (ie turn it around or provide loaners)
the 645d has the potential to be a pro camera
not sure about the service level though
If i buy a phase one at the local dealer with a service contract if it fails needs to go out for service they give me another to use from the rental department. that is what a pro camera needs to be.
Leica therefore is not a pro camera either as they have notoriously slow service.
It doesn't stop a pro from using the gear but it is a consideration
If your business is generating the income a high volume studio can then you are going to have high expectations for back end support. Pentax doesn't have the network. won't stop me from buying the gear i love the product, but if i was a pro at best it would be an alternate camera (as would a leica) not my workhorse that i have to be able to access service and support worldwide without issue (any major city will have a pro shop that rents Nikon Canon and probably hassleblad and phase one gear. fact of life they own the market which is not a large one, and the pros pay for that in the cost of the product. I've tried both the canon and Nikon systems that friends own and if my income allowed it i would own one as well as my Pentax., (wouldn't want to lug some of the pro stuff around as a day to day camera unless someone paid me to)
i think the pentax is a well placed enthusiast product. it's definitely better than the eos 60 which i view as a glorified rebel, but really not enough better than the d7000 to move it up a class. The &d isn't really a pro camera either but a bridge model.
doesn't matter though because it's the photographer that makes the image the camera is a tool. it's always nice to have the best tools, but any tool that is functional will work (I've seen amazing work produced with toy cameras and FSU rangefinders and some god awful stuff produced with a Leica M9 and Summicron 50 the ability to spend is no guarantee of talent (Leica the camera of dentists and dilettantes everywhere - -but i still lust after one.
If I was to go FF it would be to nikon though I like the ergonomics of the cameras, the performance is stellar, the lenses have always been top notch. Canon I liked but it just didn't work for me as well as the nikon
12-02-2010, 01:58 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by HuggormSWE Quote
645d, K-5, K-r, K-x, K-7 all show up on currect product lists on different official Pentax sites. Pentax showed all 5 models last weekend at the Photography Fair in Stockholm, Sweden.
It would be nice if they kept the older models about for a bit
it would stabilize the pricing and provide logical growth modes, Add a FF version of the k5 at the top and bring in a more basic less expensive 645d and it would be a very nice little lineup )
12-02-2010, 03:11 PM   #30
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why don't you become a Pro and you'll gone make it a Pro-Modell ;-)
well, if you keep it
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