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12-04-2010, 06:39 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Fang Quote
f/11:
f/22:
Peter,

the fact that it is barely noticeable at f/10 and maybe about 1.5px wide at f/22 suggests that the defect is very small (maybe 5Ám) and not more than maybe 100Ám (0.1mm) away from the sensor.

The only other option would be a focusing (micro lens kind) effect from a non planar surface.

I did the cut model photo of the K-5 and you can use it to define the optical layers on top of the CMOS. Within 0.1mm, there only is the microlens assembly, CFA bayer filters and maybe the back (inner) side of the ceramic ship housing cover glass. AA filter and alike are too far away. It would then come like this from Sony.

A non planar surface could have a focussing effect and be more far away. A layer of protective film may have the effect and the speckles would be the centers of imperfections spread across the layer of protective film.

Peter spotted something 1.5mm large. It should be 300 pixels wide, not a few pixels only.

A test with a lens able to stop down to f/32 or f/45 could help identify the region which carries speckles and see if it spawns a couple hundred pixels indeed.


So far, the phenomenon is mysterious for me.

12-04-2010, 07:03 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Let me get this straight...these cameras are all on warranty, right?

Nuff' said?

Steve

(According to Consumer Reports, between 3% and 5% of new dSLR cameras from major manufacturers require replacement or service under warranty...)
Although it will (should) be covered by Pentax warranty, I will still have to pay to ship it to Pentax, then wait 4 - 6 weeks or more to get it back, then hope that they fixed it right and didn't create some other problem. I've been through warranty ordeals before.

The number of responses to this thread just today indicate to me that the flaw may be affecting more than 3-5% of units sold to date. And the more we highlight it, the sooner Pentax manufacturing will implement stricter testing of those sensors from Sony. If the sensor defect really is that widespread and Pentax is made aware of it, then they should be better prepared to handle the warranty work.

So, let's keep reporting it.
12-04-2010, 07:09 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by vario Quote
Just saw two spots on mine with mirror up. Serial number 3820xxx. Should i sent it off to Precision Camera who is close, or to Pentax USA who is not?
I would try a sensor wipe first.
Who knows, you might save yourself some money and time right?

I once had a blemish that looked very similar to the ones shown in many of the images(OOF looking outline) on a K200D.
And after blowing and using an artic butterfly I concluded it was a defect.
However, after about a year of use, I decided to wet clean my sensor and low and behold the stain had diminished.
So I cleaned it two more times and on the the third(in total) the blemish was completely gone.

Which leads me to wonder how many of these imperfections are truly what they are believed to be.
And though I want to make clear that I'm not discounting the severity of owning a defective camera(I know I would be heartbroken), I'm just wondering if all of the reports are of the exact same nature.

Having said that, I also wanted to mention for those of you who are wondering about the validity of the impoerfection in real world conditions. Well... as a landscape and macro shooter, I can say without a doubt that I spend alot of time at the f11 - f16 end of things. So if it were my camera that was affected, I think I would be truly upset about that also.

I just hope that all those affected can get there units replaced and get passed this asap.

Last edited by JohnBee; 12-04-2010 at 07:19 PM.
12-04-2010, 07:27 PM   #34
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Did a sensor wet wipe. Spots still there. I was hopeful at first. I guess i will send it off to Precision. They are very close to me, only one state over.
This episode does not instill a lot of customer satisfaction as far as quality goes. Kind of surprised that they thought they could sneek this out, especially with all of us gear heads, LOL.

12-04-2010, 07:56 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I would try a sensor wipe first.
Who knows, you might save yourself some money and time right?

I once had a blemish that looked very similar to the ones shown in many of the images(OOF looking outline) on a K200D.
And after blowing and using an artic butterfly I concluded it was a defect.
However, after about a year of use, I decided to wet clean my sensor and low and behold the stain had diminished.
So I cleaned it two more times and on the the third(in total) the blemish was completely gone.

Which leads me to wonder how many of these imperfections are truly what they are believed to be.
And though I want to make clear that I'm not discounting the severity of owning a defective camera(I know I would be heartbroken), I'm just wondering if all of the reports are of the exact same nature.

Having said that, I also wanted to mention for those of you who are wondering about the validity of the impoerfection in real world conditions. Well... as a landscape and macro shooter, I can say without a doubt that I spend alot of time at the f11 - f16 end of things. So if it were my camera that was affected, I think I would be truly upset about that also.

I just hope that all those affected can get there units replaced and get passed this asap.
I have ordered a Pentax cleaning kit $45 Ouch! Will come back to this thread if the spots which look like oil on the sensor clean off. I am not hopeful as I have had 4 other Pentax DSLR's and never this type of contamination.
12-04-2010, 08:04 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by telfish Quote
I have ordered a Pentax cleaning kit $45 Ouch! Will come back to this thread if the spots which look like oil on the sensor clean off. I am not hopeful as I have had 4 other Pentax DSLR's and never this type of contamination.
I think you did the right thing, and though its not cheap(I know that). I think it is better to have peace of mind than to loose your camera for several weeks and wonder if it was even necessary in the first place.

Also, I want to add, that I tried two sensor cleaning methods with my own blemish, however, it was only the wet wipes that removed the blemish. The first of the two was the Pentax sticky system, that removed all of the dust, but it never affected the blemish. However, when I got the sensor wipe cleaning kit(generic off eBay) mainly to lower my cleaning costs. I noticed it was the only cleaning method that affected/removed the blemish.

My guess is, that the sticky tip cleaning device wasn't enough to dissolve whatever was on the sensor surface. However the fluid(called: Eclipse Cleaning Fluid) must have aided in the removal of the stain.

ps. I don't care about the brand, I just thought I would say the name for consistency.

Hope this helps.
12-04-2010, 09:16 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rin Quote
It really annoys me i found the same problem. I really do not know how i should handle this. I simply want a trouble free camera. I already can see them at F11 by the way. WIll Pentax do something with this for the users that have this problem?
Good God man, give your head a shake. This is a brand new camera you have. It has a warranty, and if you bought it from a good camera store, it also should have an OTC exchange.
The store I deal with has a 3 month OTC policy for defective products.
12-04-2010, 09:19 PM   #38
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Falconeye, has the right idea here i think. This guy knows his stuff i think? I usually get lost after the first sentence with him.

I am new to cameras but the glass surface and the coating would be the culprit I think.

Also I am curious if the glass or coating is of a different refractive index . That could cause the out of focus problems i see in the DPreview site. If the glass of the AA is of a different refractive index or the coating on the glass. Or the glass is not perfectily flat. Which would bend the light just enough to cause bluring or out of focus at high crops???????

I don't know shit about optics but when i saw the pics on DPreview i decided to look into it very birefly. It is very interesting. Actually with my limited knowkedge. I think canon has it pretty much under control. I like there approach. Noise and detail is very ballanced.

With the same chip why the differences. There are many things. but i think the r&d of the big two show what can be done.

One last note. After reading some. I have a new respect for DPreview. I think the tests were carried out very professionally. Temp. very important. Different metals and such expand and contract at different rates. Also the conspiracy thing is a joke i think. The only people that would suffer finacially is this site if Pentax cameras quit selling.

Hope i am wrong?? I will pony up the price of the k-5 in a heart beat.


Last edited by garyk; 12-04-2010 at 09:33 PM.
12-04-2010, 09:48 PM   #39
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Well I took a gander at my sensor, had to look. First photo is a center crop with Sigma 30mm F1.4 at F16 (smallest), 2nd shot is with my POS Sigma 400mm F5.6 at F32 (broken AF, Broken metering, water damaged with spots on interior elements, and yes that is a massive something or other in the lens, but still worth way more than the $10 bucks I paid for it...and no, POS is not Sigma's lens designation, haha). These are center cropped, and yeah there are spots. Checked my K-x, some random spots too. Thankfully, the half dozen times I might take a usable photo at these apertures these can be easily removed. Maybe I'll keep an eye on it and get it fixed if it were to get worse, or towards the warranty end.

3rd photo posted (from this morning, straight OOC jpeg) just to say BFD. There is no conspiracy here, welcome to planet earth where we are all made of dust and crud. I wouldn't be surprised to see this on any sensor from any camera at these settings. Heck, I think that 400mm is the only lens I have that even goes to F32.

First photo, marks are centered, second photo marks are towards the top, centered. These are just a quick resize, not exactly 100%. Here is a LINK to the gallery if you want to see the images slightly larger.





12-04-2010, 09:53 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
3rd photo posted (from this morning, straight OOC jpeg) just to say BFD. There is no conspiracy here, welcome to planet earth where we are all made of dust and crud. I wouldn't be surprised to see this on any sensor from any camera at these settings. Heck, I think that 400mm is the only lens I have that even goes to F32.
Nice picture btw!
Your sensor images look very much like common dust btw.
12-04-2010, 10:01 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
Nice picture btw!
Your sensor images look very much like common dust btw.
Thanks for the comment! What I really love about this camera is the DR even with the jpgs - this is the kind of scene I would be used to checking to make sure to hit proper exposure, and certainly not expect to have kept that much detail in the sky - it was quite bright. I even had +.7 EV dialed in for the shadows, but looking back at the first couple of photos it probably wasn't even necessary. The K5 just keeps impressing me with the DR is shows.

You think it could be dust even at that size? I suppose it is possible - wouldn't it move from photo to photo at least slightly? Any dust I've found would either move or disappear after a rocket blower blast, and I've never really looked for anything this small anyway. I took 6 photos with 2 lenses and ran the dust removal several times in between.
12-04-2010, 10:17 PM   #42
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Mine has the same problem - I've tried a wet clean with no improvement. They don't show up on a dust revealing (whatever its called) function on the camera.

12-04-2010, 10:22 PM   #43
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I ran the dust alert function as well and it looks clean using that feature.
12-05-2010, 12:51 AM   #44
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I found 4 stains on the sensor of my K5 after 3 days of use. I blew on the sensor and these spots have disappeared (no trace in dust alert, no trace at F22).

Today I found 2 spots present near the center.

But these new stains are persistent. Impossible to remove with cleaning function.

The problem is troublesome because these stains are located near the center and are visible even at F11 and F8.

I have contacted my vendor for service.

Mine is 3832...

I love my K5 and I hope this problem will be solved soon


F22 crop

Click in the crop to view full size

F11 crop

Click in the crop to view full size

Last edited by pscl57; 12-05-2010 at 05:54 AM. Reason: edit to add sample 100% crops at F22 and F11
12-05-2010, 01:52 AM   #45
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Here's a 100% crop of where my brand new K-5 sensor is 'marked' at f/29. It shows up at f/22, and very slightly at f/10.

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