Shake Reduction and super-resolution

kadarpik · 12-04-2010, 07:12 PM

Pentax has evolved to the level where more serious work could be done, the camera has excellent dynamic range and in camera shake reduction. All this enables to shoot in various conditions where competitors vibration compensation zoom lenses can not reach due to the large T-Stop values or light loss in the lenses.

I would propose to add some more tools to shoot better still life with K5. We all know that we have only 4 Mpix of RED and 4 MPIX of BLUE sensors in the bayer matrix and the resolution is interpolated.

It is possible to take multiple shots to compensate this color resolution disadvantage of Bayer matrix moving sensor and reading neighboring pixels. Pentax should have tools inside camera to get this done ?

It should be possible to move sensor within pixel resolution but I do not know exactly how accurate the sensor actuators are.

blade_o5990 · 12-04-2010, 09:36 PM

This is something that I have been interested in for a long time, but unfortunately, I don't think Pentax is interested in doing it, or they would have already done it. (I've written them a couple of letters, and posted on the dear Pentax thread, but no luck so far, obviously) I do believe that the SR mechanism would be precise enough for the sensor positioning required to do a four shot merge. here is my post about full color using the SR system from about a year ago. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/84360-possible-ful...reduction.html

JohnBee · 12-04-2010, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by kadarpik

It is possible to take multiple shots to compensate this color resolution disadvantage of Bayer matrix moving sensor and reading neighboring pixels. Pentax should have tools inside camera to get this done ?

It should be possible to move sensor within pixel resolution but I do not know exactly how accurate the sensor actuators are.

I don't know if it creates the same results, but I use this software quite commonly: Take Better Photos, reduce noise, increase quality and resolution of digital photographs. Leading superresolution technology.
It is very effective for large format shooting and landscape photography.

dosdan · 12-05-2010, 01:09 AM

JohnBee has mentioned PhotoAcute Studio. It does lots of things, besides superresolution. Here is an example of NR achieved by stacking 14 raw files from a hand-held continuous shoot. (14 is the max. raw burst size for the K20D.)

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/7470...king-test.html

Dan

Last edited by dosdan; 12-05-2010 at 05:35 AM.

jolepp · 12-05-2010, 03:54 AM

Are you are suggesting pushing up spatial resolution (=more pixels) by moving the sensor in small amounts (a fraction of the pixel pitch) between exposures that would then be combined?

JohnBee · 12-05-2010, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

JohnBee has mentioned PhotoAcute Studio. It does lots of things, besides superresolution. Here is an example of NR achieved by stacking 14 raw files from a hand-held continuous shoot. (14 is the max. raw burst size for the K20D.)

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/7470...king-test.html

DAb

Those are great examples of the software/technology in action.
I myself have rarely shot anything over 6 frames.
Have you found any advantages on the resolution side of things by adding more frames?
I also forgot to add that the software can add DR too.
And though its far from perfect in many cases(like waves, moving objects etc), it does work wonders with static scenes.

I also think the new K-5 would work wonders with software like this at 7fps /16MP. And I'd love to see how it would stack-up against some of the higher resolution camera's as a cost effective alternative.
On my own end of things, I've managed to squeeze out some studio images with a K20D that made-up rather nice files too. All in all I'd say the software is quite nice to work with.

kadarpik · 02-14-2011, 04:50 PM

Just did two Photoacute profiles for K-5 Sigma 70 mm EX dh macro and samyang 15 mm wide angle, both work great. They should have new version soon with those profiles.

dlacouture · 02-15-2011, 01:45 AM

Moving the sensor for hyper resolution/color accuracy is already done by Hasselblad, so I think they have all the patents for it...

Gimbal · 02-16-2011, 12:27 AM

Many years ago there was a compact camera that did the same thing so...

**volley** · 02-16-2011, 12:45 AM

Maybe a little OT, but I don't see the connection between shake reduction and shooting still life?? I assume you would always shoot (at least if you aim for high quality) still life using a tripod. So you better turn SR off.

Geof · 02-16-2011, 12:45 AM

which one?

Gimbal · 02-16-2011, 01:32 AM

Believe it was the Ricoh rdc-7 with it's "pro mode".

insleep · 04-23-2012, 09:07 AM

Camera shake reduction is great for me!

Q; Is there interference or added benefit if the lens, also, has 'shake reduction, 'vibration control', 'optical stability'?

GnipGnop · 04-23-2012, 12:12 PM

is this at all similar to the foveon sensor in the Sigma dSLR?

**Digitalis** · 04-24-2012, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by GnipGnop

is this at all similar to the foveon sensor in the Sigma dSLR?

No, what the OP{ is suggesting is dramatically different. Hasselbad has produced a camera that is using a similar technique to what the OP is suggesting - however Hasselblad are using piezoelectric motors for this, the pentax SR system could achieve a similar effect. However it could only be used on static subjects.

12-04-2010, 07:12 PM	#1
kadarpik New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tallinn Posts: 8	Shake Reduction and super-resolution Pentax has evolved to the level where more serious work could be done, the camera has excellent dynamic range and in camera shake reduction. All this enables to shoot in various conditions where competitors vibration compensation zoom lenses can not reach due to the large T-Stop values or light loss in the lenses. I would propose to add some more tools to shoot better still life with K5. We all know that we have only 4 Mpix of RED and 4 MPIX of BLUE sensors in the bayer matrix and the resolution is interpolated. It is possible to take multiple shots to compensate this color resolution disadvantage of Bayer matrix moving sensor and reading neighboring pixels. Pentax should have tools inside camera to get this done ? It should be possible to move sensor within pixel resolution but I do not know exactly how accurate the sensor actuators are.

02-15-2011, 01:45 AM	#8
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Moving the sensor for hyper resolution/color accuracy is already done by Hasselblad, so I think they have all the patents for it... Last edited by dlacouture; 02-15-2011 at 01:52 AM.

04-23-2012, 09:07 AM	#13
insleep New Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 4	camera shake reduction + lens shake reduction Camera shake reduction is great for me! Q; Is there interference or added benefit if the lens, also, has 'shake reduction, 'vibration control', 'optical stability'?

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12-04-2010, 09:36 PM	#2
blade_o5990 New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 14	This is something that I have been interested in for a long time, but unfortunately, I don't think Pentax is interested in doing it, or they would have already done it. (I've written them a couple of letters, and posted on the dear Pentax thread, but no luck so far, obviously) I do believe that the SR mechanism would be precise enough for the sensor positioning required to do a four shot merge. here is my post about full color using the SR system from about a year ago. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/84360-possible-ful...reduction.html

12-04-2010, 09:50 PM	#3
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by kadarpik It is possible to take multiple shots to compensate this color resolution disadvantage of Bayer matrix moving sensor and reading neighboring pixels. Pentax should have tools inside camera to get this done ? It should be possible to move sensor within pixel resolution but I do not know exactly how accurate the sensor actuators are. I don't know if it creates the same results, but I use this software quite commonly: Take Better Photos, reduce noise, increase quality and resolution of digital photographs. Leading superresolution technology. It is very effective for large format shooting and landscape photography.

12-05-2010, 01:09 AM	#4
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	JohnBee has mentioned PhotoAcute Studio. It does lots of things, besides superresolution. Here is an example of NR achieved by stacking 14 raw files from a hand-held continuous shoot. (14 is the max. raw burst size for the K20D.) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/7470...king-test.html Dan Last edited by dosdan; 12-05-2010 at 05:35 AM.

12-05-2010, 03:54 AM	#5
jolepp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Photos: Albums Posts: 3,196	Are you are suggesting pushing up spatial resolution (=more pixels) by moving the sensor in small amounts (a fraction of the pixel pitch) between exposures that would then be combined?

12-05-2010, 05:25 AM	#6
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by dosdan JohnBee has mentioned PhotoAcute Studio. It does lots of things, besides superresolution. Here is an example of NR achieved by stacking 14 raw files from a hand-held continuous shoot. (14 is the max. raw burst size for the K20D.) https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/7470...king-test.html DAb Those are great examples of the software/technology in action. I myself have rarely shot anything over 6 frames. Have you found any advantages on the resolution side of things by adding more frames? I also forgot to add that the software can add DR too. And though its far from perfect in many cases(like waves, moving objects etc), it does work wonders with static scenes. I also think the new K-5 would work wonders with software like this at 7fps /16MP. And I'd love to see how it would stack-up against some of the higher resolution camera's as a cost effective alternative. On my own end of things, I've managed to squeeze out some studio images with a K20D that made-up rather nice files too. All in all I'd say the software is quite nice to work with.

02-14-2011, 04:50 PM	#7
kadarpik New Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tallinn Posts: 8 Original Poster	Just did two Photoacute profiles for K-5 Sigma 70 mm EX dh macro and samyang 15 mm wide angle, both work great. They should have new version soon with those profiles.

02-16-2011, 12:27 AM	#9
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Many years ago there was a compact camera that did the same thing so...

02-16-2011, 12:45 AM	#10
volley Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Springe Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,693	Maybe a little OT, but I don't see the connection between shake reduction and shooting still life?? I assume you would always shoot (at least if you aim for high quality) still life using a tripod. So you better turn SR off.

02-16-2011, 12:45 AM	#11
Geof New Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 17	which one?

02-16-2011, 01:32 AM	#12
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Believe it was the Ricoh rdc-7 with it's "pro mode".

04-23-2012, 12:12 PM	#14
GnipGnop Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 130	is this at all similar to the foveon sensor in the Sigma dSLR?

04-24-2012, 02:27 AM	#15
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by GnipGnop is this at all similar to the foveon sensor in the Sigma dSLR? No, what the OP{ is suggesting is dramatically different. Hasselbad has produced a camera that is using a similar technique to what the OP is suggesting - however Hasselblad are using piezoelectric motors for this, the pentax SR system could achieve a similar effect. However it could only be used on static subjects.