Stains on your K5d sensor poll

Beau · 12-07-2010, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

This is what I mean. Should count as "no".

Here are the images:

Should this count as a yes or a no?

bobmaxja · 12-07-2010, 06:04 AM

Mine is clean #3883

Cannikin · 12-07-2010, 06:05 AM

f/22, ISO 80, macro focus, blank white wall

If I had not read these threads and done this controlled, artificial test, I would have never seen them.

I've been busy poring over my previous photos, taken at f/11 (even one at f/14) against a pure blue sky at infinity focus, and I am completely unable to see them, even though I know exactly where to look. They are quite simply less distinct than sensor noise at ISO 100 under those conditions. At any higher ISO, I can confidently say that they are literally impossible to distinguish against sensor noise. Therefore I conclude that they are completely irrelevant to me in real world shots.

Unfortunately, now that I know, I'm going to be a little paranoid, even though I know they will never be seen in any real photo I shoot. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

goubejp · 12-07-2010, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by Beau

Here are the images:

Should this count as a yes or a no?

I would say No; my sensor is stained, here is the typical pattern you should have

goubejp · 12-07-2010, 06:18 AM

Originally posted by Abstract

I am now part of this club, one very visible spot on the upper left corner.

Serial:3889468

Starts at F8 and onwards.

Regards
Attachment 77688

Attachment 77689

Well I think it's not; it does no look like the typical pattern of stain; only a dust particle

falconeye · 12-07-2010, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by NightPorter

It seems I was the first one who addressed the cmos has some dirt marks (stain) in the beginning and could not be cleaned

But somebodies did not realised this is truth in this forum.

Now more and more stain cmos complaints are coming:ugh:
What are they thinking now?

It is sad your report wasn't received more cooperatively. I had seen that and I was wondering.

Actually, your's wasn't the first report here. Somebody earlier pointed to "emerging scratches" and this post:
K-5µo¥Í*«¤j¨Æ¬G: (¤½¶}³q³ø¤Î¨ó§U¶K) - Pentax °Q½×°Ï - DCHome.net ¼Æ½X¤Ñ¦a½×¾Â *»´ä²Ä¤@*Ó¼Æ½X¬Û¾÷ºô¯¸ - Powered by Discuz!

Which shows the (by now) classic string of stains and is dated as early as
Nov 5.

So, Pentax had more than a month now to take counter measures. They're really too lazy to say the least ...

Originally posted by ogl

The same defect was in Canon high speed reportage cameras - Canon said that it had been oil from mirror gear.

I am almost sure the particles are solid. They may look like oil due to the optics involved. Moreover, there is almost no way oil from any gear could enter this distant and narrow 200µm gap between sensor and AA filter.

bobmaxja · 12-07-2010, 06:46 AM

Falks
Do you know in what materials the filter is made? Glass, plastic film?
Do we know if a coating is applied of these filter? Hard coat, UV coat, etc?

falconeye · 12-07-2010, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by bobmaxja

Falks
Do you know in what materials the filter is made? Glass, plastic film?
Do we know if a coating is applied of these filter? Hard coat, UV coat, etc?

I can only guess.
I would guess that the AA filter is Lithium niobate between two or three sheets of glass. And the cover glass should be glass too. And all surfaces should have an SMC quality level coating. Add to that microlenses, CFA bayer filter and IR filter and we end up with an awful lot of surfaces (13 if I count correctly). They better are all coated ...

dankoBanana · 12-07-2010, 07:16 AM

this is why I'm never an early adopter

hope you guys get your K5 fixed soon

ogl · 12-07-2010, 07:17 AM

Service Notice: EOS-1D Mark III/EOS-1Ds Mark III: Oil Spots on LPF Surface

the same problems were with Canon...but Pentax service is not Canon's.

These ring-shaped spots are the images of oil lubricant on the surface of the low pass filter (LPF), which is located in front of the CMOS sensor.

This oil is used inside the Mirror Box to lubricate some of the camera's moving parts. If the oil is applied too liberally when the camera is manufactured, it can become scattered onto the surface of the LPF through normal camera operation.

bobmaxja · 12-07-2010, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

I can only guess.
I would guess that the AA filter is Lithium niobate between two or three sheets of glass. And the cover glass should be glass too. And all surfaces should have an SMC quality level coating. Add to that microlenses, CFA bayer filter and IR filter and we end up with an awful lot of surfaces (13 if I count correctly). They better are all coated ...

Base on what you say and what I see in coating plant , I sell to one here who do Hard coat on plastic, this could be from the coating. I suspect air bubble. When the coating dry , this create this donut effect when air is rejected

This is just a potential cause and have I have no fact

janneman · 12-07-2010, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by ogl

the same problems were with Canon...but Pentax service is not Canon's.

I don't think so, the Canon (and Nikon who had the same issue) issue is due to oilstains coming from the camera mechanics... So they are on the outside, our stains appear to be on the inside....

vievetrick · 12-07-2010, 07:32 AM

I am really afraid to look for the dreaded spots on my K5 my serial number is 3839123 it was bought via Amazon by my wife as a Bday present

I am having issues with the Flash and hate to think this is a problem as well. I do think I will have to check out whether the spots are there and maybe think about a return ;(

ogl · 12-07-2010, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by janneman

I don't think so, the Canon (and Nikon who had the same issue) issue is due to oilstains coming from the camera mechanics... So they are on the outside, our stains appear to be on the inside....

I think it's oil lubricant too. Maybe from another place of K-5.

alexeyga · 12-07-2010, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Service Notice: EOS-1D Mark III/EOS-1Ds Mark III: Oil Spots on LPF Surface

the same problems were with Canon...but Pentax service is not Canon's.

These ring-shaped spots are the images of oil lubricant on the surface of the low pass filter (LPF), which is located in front of the CMOS sensor.

This oil is used inside the Mirror Box to lubricate some of the camera's moving parts. If the oil is applied too liberally when the camera is manufactured, it can become scattered onto the surface of the LPF through normal camera operation.

Not the same problem unfortunately... Oil splatter would have been an easy clean... what we're seeing however looks like the sensor assembly got contaminated with dust during the assembly... Only remedy being the whole sensor replacement...

View Poll Results: Is your K5d sensor stained?
YES - There are stains on my sensor	193	56.43%
NO - My sensor has no stains	149	43.57%
Voters: 342. You may not vote on this poll

12-07-2010, 06:05 AM	#138
Cannikin Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: SW Washington Posts: 833	f/22, ISO 80, macro focus, blank white wall If I had not read these threads and done this controlled, artificial test, I would have never seen them. I've been busy poring over my previous photos, taken at f/11 (even one at f/14) against a pure blue sky at infinity focus, and I am completely unable to see them, even though I know exactly where to look. They are quite simply less distinct than sensor noise at ISO 100 under those conditions. At any higher ISO, I can confidently say that they are literally impossible to distinguish against sensor noise. Therefore I conclude that they are completely irrelevant to me in real world shots. Unfortunately, now that I know, I'm going to be a little paranoid, even though I know they will never be seen in any real photo I shoot. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Last edited by Cannikin; 12-07-2010 at 06:20 AM.

12-07-2010, 07:17 AM	#145
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Service Notice: EOS-1D Mark III/EOS-1Ds Mark III: Oil Spots on LPF Surface the same problems were with Canon...but Pentax service is not Canon's. These ring-shaped spots are the images of oil lubricant on the surface of the low pass filter (LPF), which is located in front of the CMOS sensor. This oil is used inside the Mirror Box to lubricate some of the camera's moving parts. If the oil is applied too liberally when the camera is manufactured, it can become scattered onto the surface of the LPF through normal camera operation. Last edited by ogl; 12-07-2010 at 07:31 AM.

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12-07-2010, 05:47 AM	#136
Beau Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Leuven, Belgium Posts: 37	Originally posted by falconeye This is what I mean. Should count as "no". Here are the images: Should this count as a yes or a no?

12-07-2010, 06:04 AM	#137
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Mine is clean #3883

12-07-2010, 06:13 AM	#139
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	Originally posted by Beau Here are the images: Should this count as a yes or a no? I would say No; my sensor is stained, here is the typical pattern you should have

12-07-2010, 06:18 AM	#140
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	Originally posted by Abstract I am now part of this club, one very visible spot on the upper left corner. Serial:3889468 Starts at F8 and onwards. Regards Attachment 77688 Attachment 77689 Well I think it's not; it does no look like the typical pattern of stain; only a dust particle

12-07-2010, 06:36 AM	#141
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by NightPorter It seems I was the first one who addressed the cmos has some dirt marks (stain) in the beginning and could not be cleaned But somebodies did not realised this is truth in this forum. Now more and more stain cmos complaints are coming:ugh: What are they thinking now? It is sad your report wasn't received more cooperatively. I had seen that and I was wondering. Actually, your's wasn't the first report here. Somebody earlier pointed to "emerging scratches" and this post: K-5µo¥Í«¤j¨Æ¬G: (¤½¶}³q³ø¤Î¨ó§U¶K) - Pentax °Q½×°Ï - DCHome.net ¼Æ½X¤Ñ¦a½×¾Â »´ä²Ä¤@Ó¼Æ½X¬Û¾÷ºô¯¸ - Powered by Discuz! Which shows the (by now) classic string of stains and is dated as early as Nov 5*. So, Pentax had more than a month now to take counter measures. They're really too lazy to say the least ... Originally posted by ogl The same defect was in Canon high speed reportage cameras - Canon said that it had been oil from mirror gear. I am almost sure the particles are solid. They may look like oil due to the optics involved. Moreover, there is almost no way oil from any gear could enter this distant and narrow 200µm gap between sensor and AA filter.

12-07-2010, 06:46 AM	#142
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Falks Do you know in what materials the filter is made? Glass, plastic film? Do we know if a coating is applied of these filter? Hard coat, UV coat, etc?

12-07-2010, 07:09 AM	#143
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by bobmaxja Falks Do you know in what materials the filter is made? Glass, plastic film? Do we know if a coating is applied of these filter? Hard coat, UV coat, etc? I can only guess. I would guess that the AA filter is Lithium niobate between two or three sheets of glass. And the cover glass should be glass too. And all surfaces should have an SMC quality level coating. Add to that microlenses, CFA bayer filter and IR filter and we end up with an awful lot of surfaces (13 if I count correctly). They better are all coated ...

12-07-2010, 07:16 AM	#144
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	this is why I'm never an early adopter hope you guys get your K5 fixed soon

12-07-2010, 07:23 AM	#146
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Originally posted by falconeye I can only guess. I would guess that the AA filter is Lithium niobate between two or three sheets of glass. And the cover glass should be glass too. And all surfaces should have an SMC quality level coating. Add to that microlenses, CFA bayer filter and IR filter and we end up with an awful lot of surfaces (13 if I count correctly). They better are all coated ... Base on what you say and what I see in coating plant , I sell to one here who do Hard coat on plastic, this could be from the coating. I suspect air bubble. When the coating dry , this create this donut effect when air is rejected This is just a potential cause and have I have no fact

12-07-2010, 07:31 AM	#147
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by ogl the same problems were with Canon...but Pentax service is not Canon's. I don't think so, the Canon (and Nikon who had the same issue) issue is due to oilstains coming from the camera mechanics... So they are on the outside, our stains appear to be on the inside....

12-07-2010, 07:32 AM	#148
vievetrick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Easthampton - Massachusetts - USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,183	I am really afraid to look for the dreaded spots on my K5 my serial number is 3839123 it was bought via Amazon by my wife as a Bday present I am having issues with the Flash and hate to think this is a problem as well. I do think I will have to check out whether the spots are there and maybe think about a return ;(

12-07-2010, 07:34 AM	#149
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by janneman I don't think so, the Canon (and Nikon who had the same issue) issue is due to oilstains coming from the camera mechanics... So they are on the outside, our stains appear to be on the inside.... I think it's oil lubricant too. Maybe from another place of K-5.

12-07-2010, 07:35 AM	#150
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	Originally posted by ogl Service Notice: EOS-1D Mark III/EOS-1Ds Mark III: Oil Spots on LPF Surface the same problems were with Canon...but Pentax service is not Canon's. These ring-shaped spots are the images of oil lubricant on the surface of the low pass filter (LPF), which is located in front of the CMOS sensor. This oil is used inside the Mirror Box to lubricate some of the camera's moving parts. If the oil is applied too liberally when the camera is manufactured, it can become scattered onto the surface of the LPF through normal camera operation. Not the same problem unfortunately... Oil splatter would have been an easy clean... what we're seeing however looks like the sensor assembly got contaminated with dust during the assembly... Only remedy being the whole sensor replacement...