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View Poll Results: Is your K5d sensor stained?
YES - There are stains on my sensor 19356.43%
NO - My sensor has no stains 14943.57%
Voters: 342. You may not vote on this poll

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12-08-2010, 01:58 PM   #226
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Just checked mine, both on a blue sky and a pure white background at f/11. No discernible stain. Maybe I'm lucky. Serial 38368xx.

12-08-2010, 02:03 PM   #227
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Ratio is slowly changing

I've been watching the yes/no ratio. It has been slowly changing. In the beginning it was about 62/38 yes/no. Now it's about 56/44 yes/no. Still not very good (major understatement) but slight improvement.

NaCl(sounds like I'm a democrat talking about the economy!)H2O
12-08-2010, 02:08 PM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
I've been watching the yes/no ratio. It has been slowly changing. In the beginning it was about 62/38 yes/no. Now it's about 56/44 yes/no. Still not very good (major understatement) but slight improvement.

NaCl(sounds like I'm a democrat talking about the economy!)H2O
Well, my first hand, personal poll is 2/0 at the moment, so that's not going in the right direction
12-08-2010, 02:29 PM   #229
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Hey Adam, can we embed a Google Docs Form into the forum via an iframe? A form can be built that requests the serial number, and we can later sort through the results as a spreadsheet to see if a pattern exists.

Alternately, does anyone want to sort through the 10 pages (and growing) of this thread and cull the responses and serial numbers?

12-08-2010, 03:35 PM   #230
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Camera serial numbers might not be much help

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Hey Adam, can we embed a Google Docs Form into the forum via an iframe? A form can be built that requests the serial number, and we can later sort through the results as a spreadsheet to see if a pattern exists.

Alternately, does anyone want to sort through the 10 pages (and growing) of this thread and cull the responses and serial numbers?
John, I'm thinking that camera serial numbers might not be much help. If we had the serial numbers of the sensor assembly that might be good, but any sensor can go into any camera, it might not be (and probably isn't) linear. There is no guarantee that sensor number XX1 will go into camera XX1, sensor XX2 into camera XX2 etc. Its very possible that there is no correlation between the sensor assembly serial number and the camera it went into.

NaCl(pentax probably has that info but it won't help the end consumer)H2O
12-08-2010, 03:37 PM   #231
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finally found the time to check mine.

at f11 it becomes visible, f16 obvious, f22 in-your-face. all on the camera lcd. "string-of-pearls" type.

edit: note, the flaw seems very easily visible, naked eye, when looking at the sensor. i cannot be sure, but it seems so at first glance (shape is right, position seems correct, etc)

i haven't seen anyone mention, but the dust alert doesn't seem capable of catching this, for some reason (is it because of the way it focuses the lens? interesting, i didn't have time to figure it out. it does do f16, so it should easily catch it)

i also noticed a seemingly "dead" (hot) pixel on the back lcd. strangely, it is more annoying that i would have expected.

mine is going in, definetly. this is a flaw, regardless of how often i use f22, and pentax needs to deal with it. let's see if i can get the shop to arrange an exchange for me. (fingers crossed)

judging by the ration in the poll, the problem is quite widespread (the ratio is 60/40 in favor of yes, i would "weigh" that to 30/70 or so, assuming people who are unhappy will join the poll, while people who have no problem will likely not bother, but that's still quite serious. it would be nice to see a "manly" stand by pentax, accepting the issue and doing "the right thing" about it (would probably give them more good press than any advertising they can afford, too)

Last edited by nanok; 12-08-2010 at 04:19 PM.
12-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
John, I'm thinking that camera serial numbers might not be much help. If we had the serial numbers of the sensor assembly that might be good, but any sensor can go into any camera, it might not be (and probably isn't) linear. There is no guarantee that sensor number XX1 will go into camera XX1, sensor XX2 into camera XX2 etc. Its very possible that there is no correlation between the sensor assembly serial number and the camera it went into.

NaCl(pentax probably has that info but it won't help the end consumer)H2O
Looking through the serial numbers, I tend to agree that at this point there isn't any pattern. Assuming Pentax fixes the issue and/or rejects stained sensors before shipping them out, then it would be fair to assume that at some point serial numbers over a certain value will be (mostly) issue free.
12-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #233
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mr saltwater (if i may dare ): if pentax can work out the pattern already, the smart thing to do would be not necesarily to make a big fuss by putting it in the hands of the consumer, but rather go back to their database of distributed bodies, and have the resellers block sales of them, and if possible recall the buyers of the already sold ones. it's not exactly easy, but it's the smart thing to do, and again, attached with very good public reaction.

the only big problem with this is stock: pentax might be very reluctant to block sales, if they don't have enough stock to cover the demand as it is. hopefully though, this was just "one bad batch" and it is only an issue of the early adopters (so there is no "domino effect"), in that case, they should do it, and the quicker the better.

nanok-if-pentax-calls-me-to-appologize-and-ask-me-to-go-and-pick-up-my-new-k-5,i'll-probably-never-consider-canon-again

12-08-2010, 03:45 PM   #234
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Dan, no it's definitely not! My sincerest sympathies. I'm assuming you are doing this via long distance? It's not like you can walk into the shop and check out the body before you walk out with it. With a near 60% fail rate, your chances of getting a good body suck.

NaCl(how bad is camera #2? are you going to sent it back also?)H2O
12-08-2010, 03:50 PM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
John, I'm thinking that camera serial numbers might not be much help. If we had the serial numbers of the sensor assembly that might be good, but any sensor can go into any camera, it might not be (and probably isn't) linear. There is no guarantee that sensor number XX1 will go into camera XX1, sensor XX2 into camera XX2 etc. Its very possible that there is no correlation between the sensor assembly serial number and the camera it went into.

NaCl(pentax probably has that info but it won't help the end consumer)H2O
Not one on one but you can bet that with the production going on that the first shipment of sensors will be used on the first camera's. If it is only one batch that is affected that supply will diminish rapidly as production continues.

Maybe they now have stopped production as there are no new sensors in yet...
12-08-2010, 04:01 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Dan, no it's definitely not! My sincerest sympathies. I'm assuming you are doing this via long distance? It's not like you can walk into the shop and check out the body before you walk out with it. With a near 60% fail rate, your chances of getting a good body suck.

NaCl(how bad is camera #2? are you going to sent it back also?)H2O
It is long distance; I pre-ordered with Amazon back in Sept and just got a replacement from them yesterday.

The replacement is better. The "string of pearls" is lighter and in better location (lower left quadrant as opposed to just above the center of the frame). Also, by f/11 it's hard to detect. In a "real world" shot, even at f/16-f/22, it would be hard to find it without looking for it. The original body had a string, but within the string were two very dark circles that could be seen as low as f/4-5.6. Plus, as I mentioned, it was just above the center of the frame so it was a lot easier to spot.

Not sure if I am going to send this one back. I don't think at this point my odds on the 3rd body are any better from existing stock. Since the replacement really doesn't impact IQ in 99.9% of normal situations, I am leaning towards keeping it and maybe sending it into Pentax once things are sorted out.
12-08-2010, 04:03 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
mr saltwater (if i may dare ): if pentax can work out the pattern already, the smart thing to do would be not necesarily to make a big fuss by putting it in the hands of the consumer, but rather go back to their database of distributed bodies, and have the resellers block sales of them, and if possible recall the buyers of the already sold ones. it's not exactly easy, but it's the smart thing to do, and again, attached with very good public reaction.

the only big problem with this is stock: pentax might be very reluctant to block sales, if they don't have enough stock to cover the demand as it is. hopefully though, this was just "one bad batch" and it is only an issue of the early adopters (so there is no "domino effect"), in that case, they should do it, and the quicker the better.

nanok-if-pentax-calls-me-to-appologize-and-ask-me-to-go-and-pick-up-my-new-k-5,i'll-probably-never-consider-canon-again
Nanok, I do warranty analysis for the wonderful people what make the subway cars for NYC. I go thru this kind of thing with distressing frequency. Unless Pentax's record keeping is waaaayyyyy worse than any other Japanese company I've worked with, if there is a pattern to be discerned, they are already on it, and Sony has been informed also.
Two points:
A pattern might not exsist, there are such things as random failures, or if there is a pattern it might not be apparent yet, it's only been a couple of days.

Even if there is a pattern of part failure, (serial # range x-z) they still might not know what is causing the damn thing. Causality can be extremely difficult to ascertain.

From what I've read, there doesn't seem to be anybody that has had a problem getting an exchange. For a problem that seems to be this wide spread that tells me that Pentax has notified the retail outlets that they will support exchanges. Japanese companies have a hard time publically admitting failures (remember Toyota's accelerators?) however behind the scenes they almost always back their products. So while you may not hear a "mea culpa" from pentax, it is highly likely that you will not have a problem exchanging your K-5. And that's what it is really all about.

NaCl(that's my take on it anyway)H2O
12-08-2010, 04:14 PM   #238
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if pentax will quietly support exchanges "without fuss", i'll be happy enough. i have seen the opposite (though i think it might have been partly the shops fault) with a k20d last year. i don't buy from that shop anymore.

toyota: with all due respect, it wasn't their fault: the concept of throttle-by-wire is so wrong nobody in their right mind should have bought the damn thing to begin with

i know a bit about production failures and causality myself. i understand exactly what you mean. (fun job you have, btw -- and i do mean it). let's just hope they're on it and there will be no more of this (and let's hope i'll have my new k-5 this year or i'll be quite pissed)

edit: i think japanese culture (and far east in general, maybe, even) does not "allow" for the kind of "bright faced" failure acceptance we're used to in the west. it used to be, not so long ago, "you fail you die", or along those lines. they don't have the habit of taking their own mistakes lightly (which i quite respect)
12-08-2010, 04:18 PM   #239
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two years of research to find my next camera, and I have to find this thread.... uuuuhhhhh.... I guess I'll keep an eye on the issue and see if it gets corrected.

holding pattern...
12-08-2010, 04:34 PM   #240
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Yep, Mine too.

SN 3839115
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