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12-09-2010, 05:42 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I have more on the matter.

Pentax Europe does offer the exchange service. But at the same time, they decided to not make a big announcement about. So, my post probably is as official a message you're going to hear..
Ofcourse, announcing this would irritate those who still wait for their first K-5 , possibly the kit with 18-135 as it implies that they will have to wait even longer, maybe even until after january 15th...
Now one can say that the problems should be dealt with immediately and that those with bad K-5 should come first but as the camera does work and in most cases would still allow you to take 90% of your pics, please have a bit of patience and allow people waiting for their pre ordere one to get one asap so they too can benefit of the cashback...

BTW Pentax de beukelaer insists that there will be no problems exchanging your K-5 after removing the barcode for the cashback, "that is our and Pentax problem"

12-09-2010, 08:55 AM   #47
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Now we know the rest of the story. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the update.

QuoteOriginally posted by telfish Quote
When I ordered this camera all that was available was the kit at $1770 plus tax. In total it came to $1990.00 I did not really need the kit lens but ordered the kit because that was all there was. I expected Amazon to offer a direct replacement and I would have been happy with that. However they did not do that and offered a complete refund. I asked whether they would be sending a new camera and was told that after the 30 day period all they could do was refund so that did open the opportunity to shop around.

When I came to re-order Abe's of Maine were selling the body only for $1460 free shipping no tax. Plus I could get an additional 3 year warranty for $169.00. Amazon does not do an extended warranty So all in all a far better deal considering the issue I and others are having with the camera.

My wife and I put a lot of business Amazons way. I am a Prime member and have spent over $9000 this year. Most of the stuff you see in my sig was bought at Amazon. However I shop where I can get the best deal at the time and I am not going to spend a lot of extra money and go without the extended warranty just out of loyalty to Amazon.

They replaced my camera out of their exchange period because I am a good customer of theirs, I will continue to be a good customer of theirs but I will also shop wisely.
12-09-2010, 09:16 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Now we know the rest of the story. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the update.
There is often more to things than meets the internets eye.
12-09-2010, 09:23 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I have more on the matter.

Pentax Europe does offer the exchange service. But at the same time, they decided to not make a big announcement about. So, my post probably is as official a message you're going to hear.

Between the lines I read that they fear that everybody would show up to replace the camera. Because almost every camera, every vendor, has a stain somewhere if scrutinized at f/22 or f/32. I share this fear. I might have solved this problem differently. But it's their business and I respect their decision.
There is by now a huge amount of anxiety, anger and frustration over this issue, yet it appears that Pentax is trusting the rumor mill (i.e. the internet) to alleviate it. From a public relations point of veiw, they would do much better to issue an official statement on the subject, guaranteeing to repair or replace all affected units and to eliminate the production errors that caused the problem in the first place. Doing so would immediately restore confidence in the Pentax brand. Yes, it might mean more work and expense in the short run, but that would be a relatively small price to pay for maintaining a reputation as a company that produces high quality products and stands behind them.

I might add that the K-5 is still a new product, and there are not a huge number of units that have been sold worldwide to date. This is, of course, contrary to the impression that one gets from reading Pentax related forums. So dealing with returns or a recall would not involve as many cameras as one might think. Obviously, I don't have official numbers to go on, but that is my bet. Also, I wonder who will have to bear the burden/expense of the repairs--Pentax, Sony or another third party?

Rob


Last edited by robgo2; 12-09-2010 at 09:37 AM.
12-09-2010, 09:46 AM   #50
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There are so many buffers here. The dealer relies on Pentax USA (in our case), who can only wait until Pentax Japan give them a word.

One problem this adds to is that it prevents the local camera store from providing better service than a cheaper non-photography website like Amazon. Probably has added to the fact that it's hard to find a store that sells Pentax and nearly impossible to find one that carries the upper line.
12-09-2010, 10:27 AM   #51
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You can count me in as one with a problem. I have posted an image on Flickr for those interested in seeing a sample of the problem. I am not sure in my case if the marks are enough to have an influence on a real photograph blown up to A3, time will tell.

WHE are aware of the problem and have spoken to Pentax. They in turn are awaiting a reply from Japan.
12-09-2010, 11:06 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
There is by now a huge amount of anxiety, anger and frustration over this issue, yet it appears that Pentax is trusting the rumor mill (i.e. the internet) to alleviate it. From a public relations point of veiw, they would do much better to issue an official statement on the subject, guaranteeing to repair or replace all affected units and to eliminate the production errors that caused the problem in the first place. Doing so would immediately restore confidence in the Pentax brand. Yes, it might mean more work and expense in the short run, but that would be a relatively small price to pay for maintaining a reputation as a company that produces high quality products and stands behind them.

I might add that the K-5 is still a new product, and there are not a huge number of units that have been sold worldwide to date. This is, of course, contrary to the impression that one gets from reading Pentax related forums. So dealing with returns or a recall would not involve as many cameras as one might think. Obviously, I don't have official numbers to go on, but that is my bet. Also, I wonder who will have to bear the burden/expense of the repairs--Pentax, Sony or another third party?

Rob
As a general rule ALL Japanese companies are very loathe to publically admit to this kind of problem. Remember Toyota? Despite what happens at the public level, I'm sure there is a LOT going on behind the scenes. The fact that there has not been one instance that I'm aware of where someone has had a hard time in returning a camera tells me that there is some communication happening between Pentax and their outlets. Pentax Europe already has a (unofficial) solution in hand, I expect there to be something similar here in NA soonish. However I do expect it to be quiet and without any major "mea culpa" coming from Pentax.

NaCl(it simply isn't the way Japanese corporations operate)H2O
12-09-2010, 11:24 AM   #53
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Yes, I was in error stating that there were 80,000 K-5s. This was based on serial numbers, which include other models. Perhaps 15,000 to 20,000 K-5s are involved, with an unknown fraction affected by the problem. I would still estimate it at no more than 10% - still a lot of cameras!

Mike


Last edited by Stringmike; 12-09-2010 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Hit enter before I finshed post!
12-09-2010, 12:08 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I

Between the lines I read that they fear that everybody would show up to replace the camera. Because almost every camera, every vendor, has a stain somewhere if scrutinized at f/22 or f/32. I share this fear. I.
I'm surprised no one has touched on this statement. Almost every camera? Why haven't we heard about this from K-r owners? Or K-7?

Stains...or dust spots?
12-09-2010, 12:49 PM   #55
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Just called Pentax Canada again(they didn't return my 2 phone calls or my email) Explained my "stained" sensor bit to them (apparently mine has a lot-starts at F11 and up) They suggest I send in my K5 to them, but I won't get a camera back(mine or other) before Christmas. I said I don't think so.
So, unless my retailer will do something for me, I shall live with it for awhile. Ugh, thats what I get for spending $1900. Lovely.
12-09-2010, 01:01 PM   #56
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Hi Mokey,

MightyMike in the 'other' forum reported much the same thing......it is, with all technological products, one of the risks you run in being an 'early' adopter. I'm in the same boat, though, frankly, until I followed the explicit instructions to reproduce it I hadn't noticed. My K5 isn't heavily affected....lucky me.

In the meantime, you should be able to correct it in post without too much effort I would think. It is annoying though. I recently had my 50-135 fixed by Pentax Canada. The turn around time was so fast (roughly two weeks) it made my head spin. I was very impressed. I'm sure, once they get a steady supply of parts, they'll be able to fix it quickly.
12-09-2010, 01:37 PM   #57
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**posted this elsewhere as well, but seems pertinent to this thread as well**

Just got off the phone with Paul at the Pentax USA support number: (800) 877-0155

Very encouraging conversation. He acknowledged the problem and indicated that Pentax headquarters knows of the problem as well and that they are going through a discovery phase to determine the extent of the problem and what resolution would be best.

He offered that if I sent the camera in through the regular warranty channels, it would be repaired or replaced at their expense. However, he cautioned that I should really make sure it is indeed 'stained', and that from their position, they are potentially facing many customers that think they have the 'stains' but really just have dirty sensors that need cleaning... I suppose that is inevitable in situations like this and part of the fallout from such a slip up in the QC department, and because of that, Pentax should just grin and bare it and maybe even just do a few free sensor cleanings in reconciliation.

Paul told me that he would send my report to the people handling the issue and I should be hearing back from them once Pentax determines what their response to this will be.

I agree with Stringmike that being confrontational at this point makes no sense. These things happen sometimes and we ought to allow for that, especially in a newly released product.

To put Pentax on the defensive with an angry mob full of unreasonable demands would not be very constructive. I think it better for those of us having this issue to go little out of our way, be understanding, and work with Pentax to help them do the right thing.

After all, most of us have a year before our warranty is out, so there is really no great rush. And also for most of us, I would venture to guess, didn't even know we had 'sensor staining' until we heard about it on some forum.

At least for me, my K-5 still takes awesome shots. And for the 'stains' I have software to remove them. So, I am going to allow Pentax some time to figure things out, turn off this computer, turn on the camera, go outside and have some fun taking pictures.
12-09-2010, 01:42 PM   #58
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Mokey - Shadowfixer:

Although I don't own the K5 yet - I did test 2 K5's at the store though and both had problems - I am also waiting for a repair on my DA*16-50/2.8 (yeah, the famous SDM) - I have contacted them three times and got one reply (yesterday) regarding the lens and I am supposed to get an estimate today via fax --- still haven't got it yet.
Pentax Canada is usually slow, so if one of you had a two-weeks turn around time, consider yourself lucky!

To make a long story short: I am waiting for things to settle/get fixed before I buy the K5. :ugh:

At the time of the very short discussion with the service personnel, I also took the liberty of asking them about the stain issue with the K5.
Answer: they did not receive any such complaints! What!???
Come on! These cameras were sent back!

Now I am seeing some Canadians, on this forum anyway, reporting that issue.

I hope Pentax will replace your K5's with a good copy, hopefully "tested" beforehand, in a speedy manner.

Best to you both!
Cheers.

JP
12-09-2010, 01:53 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by oddshot Quote
**posted this elsewhere as well, but seems pertinent to this thread as well**

Just got off the phone with Paul at the Pentax USA support number: (800) 877-0155

Very encouraging conversation. He acknowledged the problem and indicated that Pentax headquarters knows of the problem as well and that they are going through a discovery phase to determine the extent of the problem and what resolution would be best.
That is a very good piece of news! I am hopeful that this will eventually spread to Pentax Canada but knowing how slow they usually are, we might have to wait quite a bit.
He offered that if I sent the camera in through the regular warranty channels, it would be repaired or replaced at their expense. However, he cautioned that I should really make sure it is indeed 'stained', and that from their position, they are potentially facing many customers that think they have the 'stains' but really just have dirty sensors that need cleaning... I suppose that is inevitable in situations like this and part of the fallout from such a slip up in the QC department, and because of that, Pentax should just grin and bare it and maybe even just do a few free sensor cleanings in reconciliation.
This is an extremely important of your post, and thank you for sharing.
I would certainly invite people to first post some images of the stains on this thread, whatever they seem to be, and ask for some expert "look" into the posted images here.
I am sure some members here are knowledgeable enough in the matter at hand.
I sure am not an expert myself!
That way, one would be sure that they are not sending back a "dusty" K5 rather than a "stained" one!

Paul told me that he would send my report to the people handling the issue and I should be hearing back from them once Pentax determines what their response to this will be.

I agree with Stringmike that being confrontational at this point makes no sense. These things happen sometimes and we ought to allow for that, especially in a newly released product.

To put Pentax on the defensive with an angry mob full of unreasonable demands would not be very constructive. I think it better for those of us having this issue to go little out of our way, be understanding, and work with Pentax to help them do the right thing.
After all, most of us have a year before our warranty is out, so there is really no great rush. And also for most of us, I would venture to guess, didn't even know we had 'sensor staining' until we heard about it on some forum.

At least for me, my K-5 still takes awesome shots. And for the 'stains' I have software to remove them. So, I am going to allow Pentax some time to figure things out, turn off this computer, turn on the camera, go outside and have some fun taking pictures.
Your post is very timely and thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

Cheers!

JP
12-09-2010, 02:04 PM   #60
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Thanks JP for your comments and kudos... and as an addendum to my previous post:

Pentax just called me back from a message I left last night. This time Bob assured me Pentax is on it and will fix/replace any of the cameras afflicted with the stains and added that even if a user did not notice the stains until after the 1 year warranty, they would still make the repair at their expense.

I know that is all talk at this point, but all I can do is trust that they will do what they say... if not, I know I chose the wrong camera company.

But for me, so far the track record is good. I have no worries that Pentax is going to stiff me with a faulty camera.... it just may take a little time to get it resolved... no biggie.
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