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12-07-2010, 03:55 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Yup, noted and added. Right now we have an epidemic of one.
John the issue has only surfaced very recently! It does not appear readily in shots <f/16 or so. That does NOT make it a non problem. When I shoot waterfalls I almost always go to f/22 or so. Does this mean I can't take pictures of water falls? What about macro? When shooting macro I frequently get as high an f stop as possible depending on light conditions. I'm not supposed to take macros?

NaCl(I daresay that people can reproduce "normal shots" with flaws w/o too much trouble)H2O

12-07-2010, 04:31 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by dexmus Quote
the photos that were posted were taken in this 'real' world only
Not sure, what sort of pictures you are asking for (any sky picture will show it...) but there is one example in m80's thread (titled like - amazing amount of fill light in ISO 80). He could not get it removed by cleaning.

fanboys will be fanboys. No matter what. We should be able to point out defects in a company we love.
When someone found the flash issue, many people said - 'I never shoot with external flash. Not a real issue'
Now for this issue, many are saying 'I never shoot above f8'.

It is very similar to the Apple worship cult. When there was a reception problem with the new iPhone, people said 'Well, that's not the correct way to hold a phone', or 'I always have the cover on'...

I think tomorrow, if k-5 starts shooting fireballs and destroying all kittens in the world, people will go...meh...who likes cats, they serve no purpose
QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
John the issue has only surfaced very recently! It does not appear readily in shots <f/16 or so. That does NOT make it a non problem. When I shoot waterfalls I almost always go to f/22 or so. Does this mean I can't take pictures of water falls? What about macro? When shooting macro I frequently get as high an f stop as possible depending on light conditions. I'm not supposed to take macros?

NaCl(I daresay that people can reproduce "normal shots" with flaws w/o too much trouble)H2O
I started the "real world" examples thread because I am sincerely interested in seeing real world examples. I take photos, you see, and sometimes get paid for them. Before plopping down my hard earned dough for the K-5, I'd like to know how widespread the string-of-pearls issue is and how it shows up in photos. If I get an affected camera and my next gig is landscapes with a lot of blue skies, then it's an issue for me. If, on the other hand, I'm doing a lot of indoor wide aperture shooting next, then maybe not so much.

Yes NaClH2O, the issue is new, but the camera's been out for several weeks and plenty of photos have been taken with them. I'm the admin to the Pentax K-5 Fan Club on Flickr. We've got over 1600 photos there, and while I haven't looked at every one, I have yet to see the string-of-pearls. This includes plenty of macros and plenty of skies.

I'm not claiming that the problem doesn't exist - it clearly does. What I'm trying to understand is how prevalent it really is and how it impacts taking real photographs.

And please be careful who you call a fanboy dexmus. I've got a Pentax, but I've also got a Canon P&S, a couple of Olympus 35mm rangefinders, covet a Ricoh GXR (to replace a stolen GX100), and am leaning towards the Panny GH-2 versus the K-5 right now, and not because of the string-of-pearls issue, but rather because I've been making more money with video vs. photos lately.
12-08-2010, 04:56 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by planedriver Quote
My K-5 is also affected by this stain issue
András! Don't send your K-5 to Camera Kft unless you don't need it for several days or weeks. They can't even check whether the stain is on top of the filters or under it! Just for this simple check they send the cam to the european repair center. Ridiculous!

QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I'm not sure how much of this recent stain talk is true, and how much is just dust, though. Sounds awfully probable that it's more of the second.
While some of the pics in the other topic show simple dust spots, the stains are clearly different and cannot be cleaned by any way (ultrasonic sensor cleaning, dust blower, wet cleaning). In many cases Pentax repair centers already acknowledged it's under the filters and replaced the cam. Honestly, take off your fanboy eyeglass.
12-08-2010, 05:22 AM   #34
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What is "quality insurance"?

12-08-2010, 05:31 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
What is "quality insurance"?
Wikipedia:

Quality assurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Andras
12-08-2010, 05:38 AM   #36
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I already know what quality assurance means, just never heard the term quality insurance.

Jason
12-08-2010, 05:53 AM   #37
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Dust, if there is too much dust, I grab the vacuum cleaner and start working. Stains, if there are too much stains, I throw things in the laundry machine and cook it up. Boy, but no, I didn't think this to be the treatments for my brandnew K-5. So I wrapped it up and took it back to the store and watched the employee torture it for over an hour without succes. And returned the next day to watch the specialist repeat the treatment now for 45 minutes. And my K-5 in its short lifetime saw more blowing and wet cleaning then all of my respective other camera's together ever ever saw. Darn darn darn. Now why is this dust soooooooooooo sticky. Must be caught somewhere between things where you cannot touch it, ........ ??? Well, I am only a complaining teapot. Nothing the matter, it is sent in and I guess my poor K-5 will see even more cleaning attempts. And when it comes back to me I wonder in what shape it will be. I am not too confident, but sure, must be. It will not take even that long, just up to 6 - 8 weeks. Now, that isn't very long, isn't it? More than there being a problem I am sort of devastated by the uncertainty it being redeemed.
My k20d is now with my daughter in law. My k-x stays with one of my sons. My k-7 left the house for travelling with another son. But hey, I still have got my Spotmatic II and you know what? It too takes pictures. Amazing, isn't it, got it in 1973.
12-08-2010, 06:03 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by planedriver Quote
Hello,

My K-5 is also affected by this stain issue..I don't say it's ruined my day (so far) as it doesn't really seem to effect my pictures (so far)...but it's still REALLY REALLY annoying...

Anyway I am taking part in a QUALITY INSURANCE course right now..and my thoughts are always coming back to my K-5 and Pentax. Now the teacher of this course has a lot of experience in car-manufacturing and he told us that the recent recall of TOYOTAs actually INCREASED their sales in the US by 30%... as this move greatly increased the buyer's confidence in them..no need to explain this I think..


..and what do you think? Do you think Pentax listens?

Andras
I have not read the replies except for the first few. Well since Pentax does nothing for for me and my wallet I will just write what I think might be Hoyas thinking, as seen by their actions.

I believe their is an issue just by the fact that lots of folks are posting pics that have a very close pattern. Its just not dust here and there. But just in case we need a scientific view we have that also. Their view is there is a problem. In case we need a statisticians view we have that also. Their view is we don't know how many are effected. But if they would to guess at this point, they believe it a good percentage.

Hoyas business model is to play down the internet, it has no real place with Hoyas business. Reality is the world is becoming linked through the internet and those who don't know how to use it risk being left behind. Hoya like it or not has to participate in the WWW good/bad. Take SDM if Hoya would have done anything positive no one would have doubt in their mind now. But because Hoya did nothing. The internet can make one man more wealthy or break a company if you don't learn how to do business with it. China tries but will fail to contain the internet; because a wise man or entity knows its an unstoppable growing power and that's under-stating it not over

In other words. Hoya would like to think the internet can be controled or they can just ignor it. This thinking will hurt their buisness.

Oh, to define the internet. The voice, IMO, feelings of the worlds people all being heard.

Oh, and I know K-5 owners have a warranty and can really get something done by calling Pentax. What I write about is the public relations part of a business. It can hurt or help a business, thats a fact. And thats where the internet comes into play.


Last edited by jamesm007; 12-08-2010 at 06:24 AM.
12-08-2010, 06:19 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
If you have a problem with your camera, get it fixed.
Doh! Why didn't I think of that?
12-08-2010, 08:41 AM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
These kinds of threads are what is annoying.
If you have a problem with your camera, get it fixed.
There is nothing complicated about this concept.

Pack it up and take it to your local Pentax dealer and have it repaired.
Pack it up and mail it back to your mail order Pentax dealer and have it repaired.
Pack it up and send it to Pentax directly and have it repaired.
Pack it up and take it back to your local Pentax dealer for a refund.
Pack it up and send it back to your mail order Pentax dealer for a refund.


Sorry, I've probably over complicated it.
Pick one of the five options above, try to choose the one that best fits your lifestyle.
Another useless post by Wheatfield... That's what's annoying! So, if I understand you correctly, in spite of this being a Pentax Forum, people who feel have a problem with their brand new cameras shouldn't be posting it here?
I personally have no sensor issue with my K-5 (serial 3858xxx) but I am still interested in knowing what is happening out there, learned a lot about the entire issue actually and perhaps how is Pentax reacting to this.

Hey, Wheatfield, if you want "only positive" in these forums, why don't you start your own and call it "Pentax is Perfect, Don't Post Anything About Pentax Issues Here" . 6000+ posts don't give you any special privilege or the right to be condescending to people who post their potential issues...

Cheers!
Gene
12-08-2010, 08:59 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxMom Felua Quote
Dust, if there is too much dust, I grab the vacuum cleaner and start working. Stains, if there are too much stains, I throw things in the laundry machine and cook it up. Boy, but no, I didn't think this to be the treatments for my brandnew K-5. So I wrapped it up and took it back to the store and watched the employee torture it for over an hour without succes. And returned the next day to watch the specialist repeat the treatment now for 45 minutes. And my K-5 in its short lifetime saw more blowing and wet cleaning then all of my respective other camera's together ever ever saw. Darn darn darn. Now why is this dust soooooooooooo sticky. Must be caught somewhere between things where you cannot touch it, ........ ??? Well, I am only a complaining teapot. Nothing the matter, it is sent in and I guess my poor K-5 will see even more cleaning attempts. And when it comes back to me I wonder in what shape it will be. I am not too confident, but sure, must be. It will not take even that long, just up to 6 - 8 weeks. Now, that isn't very long, isn't it? More than there being a problem I am sort of devastated by the uncertainty it being redeemed.
My k20d is now with my daughter in law. My k-x stays with one of my sons. My k-7 left the house for travelling with another son. But hey, I still have got my Spotmatic II and you know what? It too takes pictures. Amazing, isn't it, got it in 1973.

Thanks PentaxMom Felua..your story really helps me explaining what I'm missing from Pentax..ADMIT that there's a problem and ACT in a way that the warranty repairs and services are easily accessible for the affected buyers. If they are still looking for the solution..then make a statement to wait until the proper procedure is found.

Andras
12-08-2010, 06:31 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by xGene Quote
Another useless post by Wheatfield... That's what's annoying! So, if I understand you correctly, in spite of this being a Pentax Forum, people who feel have a problem with their brand new cameras shouldn't be posting it here?
I personally have no sensor issue with my K-5 (serial 3858xxx) but I am still interested in knowing what is happening out there, learned a lot about the entire issue actually and perhaps how is Pentax reacting to this.

Hey, Wheatfield, if you want "only positive" in these forums, why don't you start your own and call it "Pentax is Perfect, Don't Post Anything About Pentax Issues Here" . 6000+ posts don't give you any special privilege or the right to be condescending to people who post their potential issues...

Cheers!
Gene
Well Gene, I counted 9 threads totaling 691 posts on the subject running at the moment.
It seems to me that this shows that there are a lot of people having problems figuring out what to do when they have an equipment malfunction.
I'm merely trying to help these people out by suggesting the best way possible for them to resolve their problem with their new camera.

You can be sure that both 6000+ posts and generous financial contributions to the site don't give me any special privilege.
12-08-2010, 07:57 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesm007 Quote
I have not read the replies except for the first few. Well since Pentax does nothing for for me and my wallet I will just write what I think might be Hoyas thinking, as seen by their actions.

I believe their is an issue just by the fact that lots of folks are posting pics that have a very close pattern. Its just not dust here and there. But just in case we need a scientific view we have that also. Their view is there is a problem. In case we need a statisticians view we have that also. Their view is we don't know how many are effected. But if they would to guess at this point, they believe it a good percentage.

Hoyas business model is to play down the internet, it has no real place with Hoyas business. Reality is the world is becoming linked through the internet and those who don't know how to use it risk being left behind. Hoya like it or not has to participate in the WWW good/bad. Take SDM if Hoya would have done anything positive no one would have doubt in their mind now. But because Hoya did nothing. The internet can make one man more wealthy or break a company if you don't learn how to do business with it. China tries but will fail to contain the internet; because a wise man or entity knows its an unstoppable growing power and that's under-stating it not over

In other words. Hoya would like to think the internet can be controled or they can just ignor it. This thinking will hurt their buisness.

Oh, to define the internet. The voice, IMO, feelings of the worlds people all being heard.

Oh, and I know K-5 owners have a warranty and can really get something done by calling Pentax. What I write about is the public relations part of a business. It can hurt or help a business, thats a fact. And thats where the internet comes into play.
How do you know any of this? You on the board of Hoya perchance? The problem is a whole 2 days old! Do you know if any japanese cameras have been affected? Is this just exported cameras? Have you ever dealt with large warranty issues?
I have. I work with lots of different global companies. Give the people some time to really figure out what is going on. To come out with a plan after just two days is insane. For now they are doing what they should, backing their warranties. I have not yet heard of ONE person who hasn't been able to return their camera. Give them a few more days, I'd say by Monday you might see some different action from them. Don't forget that Pentax/Hoya is a Japanese company and as such they rarely publically admit to wrong doing. Remember Toyota? However what doesn't happen publically isn't that big a deal as long as the problem is addressed and the customers are satisfied with the process. To expect Pentax to be perfect is ludicrous. To expect them to rectify the mistake is adult. To give them time to plan how to do that is intelligent. Your post above reminds me of an old military saying "When in trouble or in doubt; run in circles, scream and shout".

NaCl(I don't know why I'm bothering)H2O
12-08-2010, 08:26 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by planedriver Quote
Thanks PentaxMom Felua..your story really helps me explaining what I'm missing from Pentax..ADMIT that there's a problem and ACT in a way that the warranty repairs and services are easily accessible for the affected buyers. If they are still looking for the solution..then make a statement to wait until the proper procedure is found.

Andras
Andras, I kinda think that is pretty much what is happening. I have been following the problem pretty carefully because I have a professional interest in all of this. I do warranty analysis for the wonderful people what make the subway cars for NYC. I deal with stuff like this distressingly too frequently. So far Pentax has responded like I would expect a japanese company to respond. The problem is at most 3 days old. So far I have not heard of ONE person who has had a problem returning their camera. That tells me that even tho YOU haven't heard anything from Pentax, it is entirely likely that Pentax has informed it's major outlets. No one yet knows the scope of the problem. I have yet to hear that any Japanese shooters have SOP. Is the problem confined to exports? Is there a range of sensor serial numbers affected? (yes, part assemblies are serialized too, as are sub assemblies and even individual parts) Does Sony have different plants making this assembly? Do they have sub contractors involved somewhere in the process? All of those questions and many more have to be answered before you can expect a definitive answer from Pentax. Meanwhile the cameras are being exchanged. Sometimes twice/three times. I've yet ot hear of anyone having a problem with that. Falk was in contact with Pentax Europe and according to him they have guaranteed a SOP free camera in exchange for a defective one. At this early stage you cannot expect any better than that. I hope to see something similar happen here in NA before the week is out. I don't expect to see a big public mea culpa from Pentax, it's not the Japanese way. However does it matter as long as you get a defect free camera? Yes, this shouldn't have happened. But it did. Shit happens, the cameras are being exchanged, and I'm sure that Hoya/Pentax is working round the clock to rectify the problem. You might not see it, you might not hear of it, but guaranteed, it is happening. Every Japanese company I've ever worked with (Kawasaki, Tosiba, Koito, Panasonic, Fuji, Mitsubishi etc) all work that way. The Japanese have earned their reputation by doing exactly that.

NaCl(Just because you don't see it or hear of it doesn't mean it doesn't exsist)H2O
12-09-2010, 06:32 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by planedriver Quote
..and what do you think? Do you think Pentax listens?

Andras
Andras,

as I posted in the Sensor problem resolution thread, Pentax does listen. Customers with a real issue (like the string of pearls) will get their camera exchanged. Great customer service indeed. Moreover, they now apply additional QC to avoid the problem reaching the customer. Even to existing stock!
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