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12-09-2010, 02:36 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
right. while they're at it, they should also file for bankrupcy (why wait, it's unavoidable once you do such a recall). come on, let's be reasonable, and not blow this out of proportion.

(yes, my k-5 is out on it's way to the service, and i hope i'll get my good one soon; my trusty k20d is still here with me, and i'm not even a pro (...) ). cheer up, wake up...
Why wait for 1000's of people to return their cameras? Then you have a huge pile of used cameras. Let dealers return unopened stock to the nearest service center, for a full check and repackage. Then they'd still be new, and the service centers wouldn't be overwhelmed with returns. We are already used to seeing "out of stock" notices when trying to buy the K-5, so people can wait a few weeks.

Cars and other consumer products are recalled every day. None of them go out of business.

I'm not blowing this out of proportion. Why should I have to return 3-4 cameras to find one that is clean? Let Pentax do it.

12-09-2010, 02:50 PM   #32
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Can't afford to jump ship now, spent way to much money on Pentax glass. UPS picked up my K5 yesterday and my dealer mailed a new one yesterday which will be here on the 14th Dec. anticipatively it will be clean. I think the the higher up's will have it under control shortly or they will lose new comer's to this BRAND,,PENTAX.
12-09-2010, 02:53 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
We don't really know which party in the supply and assembly chain is responsible for the defect or which one will bear the cost of repairs. It might fall on someone other than Pentax.

Rob
Actually even if Sony, or some other company picks up the the main cost of repair, Pentax will be out a pretty penny.
1. It is not Sony customer reps dealing with this it is Pentax
2. As the main manufacturer, it is Pentax responsibility to diagnose the problem, that can cost a LOT of money. Even if a vendor is found responsible the initial investigative costs are very rarely recovered.
3. It is Pentax responsibility for repair logistics. Even if Sony (for example purposes only, I NOT saying it is Sony's responsibility at this point) provides new clean sensors, and pays for the replacement, Pentax still has to schedule, warehouse and ship the repaired cameras. All that stuff costs money. If they decide to go the replacement route what kind of discount do you provide for "refurbished" units? That gets eaten by Pentax also.

NaCl(don't kid yourself, this will cost Pentax plenty and I'm not even factoring in lost sales)H2O
12-09-2010, 02:53 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by qtopplings Quote
I'm not blowing this out of proportion. Why should I have to return 3-4 cameras to find one that is clean? Let Pentax do it.
And that was the point I was trying to make, nicely to the Pentax Reps. I really don't wish to keep returning cameras and taking pot luck I will end up with a good one. It is not good for the retailer, the customer or the manufacturer to have that happen.

I agree call all the retail stock back to a central service point, check them out, after all it only take a few minutes to see if a camera is faulty. I even with 65 year old eyes can see the stains the first time you do a mirror lock up. Bad ones are obvious, less affected ones need a check with a lens on.

I could test 10 to 15 an hour I would guess. How many K5's are sat in retailers? It might take a week to test them all.

I was dubious of the 60% plus affected rate when the poll was first put up. I am not so sure now that this does not reflect reality.

12-09-2010, 03:13 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by qtopplings Quote
(..)

I'm not blowing this out of proportion. Why should I have to return 3-4 cameras to find one that is clean? Let Pentax do it.
this is completely different. i completely agree with this. this is where the great support is separated from average or terrible. pentax needs to make sure that the second camera will always be perfect. immaculate. this is not hard to do, because it will come in gradually (unlike a recall), and can be "swallowed" in the normal flow of repair requests. imho, a full-on recall at this point might be extreme (but it depends on other factors too). let me put it this way: if next week i get my new k-5 with a note "please excuse the shutter counter of 10 instead of 0, we made it a point to thoroughly test for any stains or imperfections before shiping. thanks for your understanding. pentax europe", i won't be exactly angry.

somebody who is probably very smart once pointed out: when your customer has a problem, you should see it as an opportunity: they will never know what outstanding customer service you provide unless they have a problem, so now that they do, make sure they know. i hope this is what pentax will try to do.
12-09-2010, 05:20 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by planedriver Quote
...and when I started a thread "https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/125144-pentax-you-listening.html" some forum member(s) with very high number of posts and therefore with some "special privileges"(don't take this seriously) openly called my thread annoying..

QuoteQuote:
..so this whole thing is also an emotional issue for me..
Yes well, these thread have become annoying, and some people are perhaps emotional to the point of being overwrought about it.

If you are talking about me as a high post count member with special privileges, you can rest assured, based on the number of demerit points I seem to garner and the less than nice messages I rake in from the mods, you could not be any less correct if you tried to be.
12-09-2010, 05:35 PM   #37
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Wheatfield, most times I agree with you. However in this I would like you to tell me what I could do differently. All I want is a camera that will take macro shots without a load of dark circles in the picture, not much to ask for $1500 is it?

To go through camera after camera all with the same issue is not good. I could sit on one of the faulty cameras and eventually send it in for a replacement sensor but why should I have to do that just because Pentax cannot get their act together and do a replacement scheme with known good cameras for affected customers.
12-09-2010, 06:11 PM   #38
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I remember reading the posts here not long ago that so many people bragged about how great their K-5 were. And there was a post by some one in Hong Kong that the sensor in his new K-5 had stain which could not be cleaned. Every one condemned him for raising such nonsense. It made feel that this site was dominated by Pentax fanatics. Since I own K-x and K-7 for less than 6 months, I am not in a hurry to buy another new camera. If I decide to buy a new camera after the New Year, it would be Nikon D7000. It's a lot cheaper and has no such sensor defect.

We expect in the near future there will be many refurbished K-5 at a discount price of around $1,400 while you can get a Nikon D7000 at regular price for $1,200. I only buy minimum number of lenses so I won't be tied up for one brand.


Last edited by violini; 12-10-2010 at 08:50 AM.
12-09-2010, 06:13 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by oddshot Quote
Just got off the phone with Paul at the Pentax USA support number: (800) 877-0155

Very encouraging conversation. He acknowledged the problem and indicated that Pentax headquarters knows of the problem as well and that they are going through a discovery phase to determine the extent of the problem and what resolution would be best.

He offered that if I sent the camera in through the regular warranty channels, it would be repaired or replaced at their expense. However, he cautioned that I should really make sure it is indeed 'stained', and that from their position, they are potentially facing many customers that think they have the 'stains' but really just have dirty sensors that need cleaning... I suppose that is inevitable in situations like this and part of the fallout from such a slip up in the QC department, and because of that, Pentax should just grin and bare it and maybe even just do a few free sensor cleanings in reconciliation.

Paul told me that he would send my report to the people handling the issue and I should be hearing back from them once Pentax determines what their response to this will be.

I agree with Stringmike that being confrontational at this point makes no sense. These things happen sometimes and we ought to allow for that, especially in a newly released product.

To put Pentax on the defensive with an angry mob full of unreasonable demands would not be very constructive. I think it better for those of us having this issue to go little out of our way, be understanding, and work with Pentax to help them do the right thing.

After all, most of us have a year before our warranty is out, so there is really no great rush. And also for most of us, I would venture to guess, didn't even know we had 'sensor staining' until we heard about it on some forum.

At least for me, my K-5 still takes awesome shots. And for the 'stains' I have software to remove them. So, I am going to allow Pentax some time to figure things out, turn off this computer, turn on the camera, go outside and have some fun taking pictures.

Yes, I absolutely agree with you. My K-5 is still ok in this moment and my friend had exchanged a new K-5 from Pentax H.K. in the past weeks
Let's get time for Pentax to fix this stain problem but they need to do as fast as they can.
12-09-2010, 06:58 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by telfish Quote
Wheatfield, most times I agree with you. However in this I would like you to tell me what I could do differently. All I want is a camera that will take macro shots without a load of dark circles in the picture, not much to ask for $1500 is it?

To go through camera after camera all with the same issue is not good. I could sit on one of the faulty cameras and eventually send it in for a replacement sensor but why should I have to do that just because Pentax cannot get their act together and do a replacement scheme with known good cameras for affected customers.
Really, I do sympathize, but lets step back for a moment.

The reality is, every manufacturer of every type of product has the occasional manufacturing defect, and price is not part of the defect equation.

The reality is, this defect came to light initially not much more than a couple of weeks ago.

Presuming that Pentax immediately realized they had a problem on their hands (not likely), they have not had a whole lot of time to track the problem, sort out what is causing the problem, and institute a solution to the problem.

And in the meanwhile, people on this forum (and I'm sure others) are going hysterical, like as if Pentax is going to do nothing.
People wondering out loud if Pentax is going to "stiff them" on a new camera, people getting their shorts in a knot because customer service seems eerily silent on the matter, people accusing the company of ignoring the issue, etc.

Consider that a couple of weeks isn't really a very long time to research what may well be a vexing problem to track down the source of.

Now you are complaining that Pentax "cannot get their act together". Do you really think that they have had enough time to ensure that any cameras in the supply chain have been recalled? Do you really think that they've had enough time to sort out every challenge that this has put in front of them?
Do you really think that you are going to be "stiffed" on your new camera?

I'm sorry that you are not fortunate enough to have a camera shop next door to handle this for you. I realize that isn't your fault directly, but it isn't Pentax's fault either.
Consumers in general cut the legs out from under the camera store, and now the consumer is going to be inconvenienced because they felt short term gain was preferable to long term pain.

You know there is a problem, you can bet Pentax knows there is a problem, but no one can just wave a magic wand and make it go away tomorrow.
If you think that you are playing roulette, then get your RMA from whatever mail order place you bought from and wait a while before returning the camera.
More than likely, this is the best strategy.
Without wanting to disrespect anyone in particular, the people who cannot get their act's together are the handwringers. Pentax has their work cut out for them, and from the sounds of it, already has some strategies in place (including free shipping of affected units).
Really, what more can they do? I suppose the president of Hoya could fall on his sword, but that wouldn't guarantee you a faultless camera either.
12-09-2010, 07:05 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Yes well, these thread have become annoying
Look, seriously no offense but if these threads are annoying you so much why the heck are you reading them? And why do you fell the need to be so darn confrontational with people experiencing problems?

Pat
12-09-2010, 07:10 PM   #42
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Well said Wheatfield!
12-09-2010, 07:18 PM   #43
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All these treads about the problems of the sensor are all going in the wrong direction . Now it's time to close most of them as most of them add no value anymore
12-09-2010, 07:43 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Really, I do sympathize, but lets step back for a moment.

The reality is, every manufacturer of every type of product has the occasional manufacturing defect, and price is not part of the defect equation.

The reality is, this defect came to light initially not much more than a couple of weeks ago.

Presuming that Pentax immediately realized they had a problem on their hands (not likely), they have not had a whole lot of time to track the problem, sort out what is causing the problem, and institute a solution to the problem.

And in the meanwhile, people on this forum (and I'm sure others) are going hysterical, like as if Pentax is going to do nothing.
People wondering out loud if Pentax is going to "stiff them" on a new camera, people getting their shorts in a knot because customer service seems eerily silent on the matter, people accusing the company of ignoring the issue, etc.

Consider that a couple of weeks isn't really a very long time to research what may well be a vexing problem to track down the source of.

Now you are complaining that Pentax "cannot get their act together". Do you really think that they have had enough time to ensure that any cameras in the supply chain have been recalled? Do you really think that they've had enough time to sort out every challenge that this has put in front of them?
Do you really think that you are going to be "stiffed" on your new camera?

I'm sorry that you are not fortunate enough to have a camera shop next door to handle this for you. I realize that isn't your fault directly, but it isn't Pentax's fault either.
Consumers in general cut the legs out from under the camera store, and now the consumer is going to be inconvenienced because they felt short term gain was preferable to long term pain.

You know there is a problem, you can bet Pentax knows there is a problem, but no one can just wave a magic wand and make it go away tomorrow.
If you think that you are playing roulette, then get your RMA from whatever mail order place you bought from and wait a while before returning the camera.
More than likely, this is the best strategy.
Without wanting to disrespect anyone in particular, the people who cannot get their act's together are the handwringers. Pentax has their work cut out for them, and from the sounds of it, already has some strategies in place (including free shipping of affected units).
Really, what more can they do? I suppose the president of Hoya could fall on his sword, but that wouldn't guarantee you a faultless camera either.


I hate to say this, but after reading your mostly nonsensical rant, it appears that you are of the opinion that we should "Shoot the Victims"? No one that bought a K5 with a faulty sensor is at fault, and while you say Pentax is not at fault, I would like to see you explain that kind of twisted logic? Pentax shipped the cameras, plain and simple. When as many as half show defects, it screams of poor or non-existent QC....not of buyer fault.
Regards!
12-09-2010, 07:58 PM   #45
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That conversation was a little infuriating, but pretty typical in my view. I wish I had recorded some of my calls to Rogers Canada (internet, cable, television cartel). Literally hours of my life wasted just to get bumped to level 2 so I can talk to someone who can actually fix a problem.

...and yet, I still use my telephone, and the internet.
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