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02-19-2011, 11:48 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Osama Binhidin Quote
Something lost in translation there!
When in movie mode use only original batteries. Batteries get hot and non originals may even explode.
Good point, BTW!

02-20-2011, 01:16 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
The quoted shutter life expectancy of the K5 is 100,000 actuations. Even at $140 a battery x3 ($420) the per shutter actuation cost would be $.0042 per actuation over the life expectancy of the camera. At that cost, I'll stick with the Pentax battery.
This is meaningless in the discussion. It only says that you are willing to pay for the pentax stamp. It doesn't help in finding out if the pentax labelled batteries are different in any way to generic ones.


QuoteOriginally posted by 30v iPentax Quote
K-5 ei kannata olla videokuvauksessa kun pentax omia akkuja. Koska akut kuumenee pitkissä videopätkissä ja voi vaikka räjähtää.
If you have any sources or tests regarding this, do share.

I'm sceptical to that the pentax labelled batteries would be the best batteries for the K-5, and if they are I'm sure they're not worth the extra cash. There are probably both better and worse batteries out there.
02-20-2011, 04:36 AM   #33
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I've been using 3rd party batteries for my K10 for years and they were fine.

Recently, thanks to CRK losing my k5 battery during a repair, I was forced to buy a generic while waiting for the genuine replacement and again no issues at all for normal use. Whether or not the pentax ones are better in high drain or cold weather might be another story. But $24 vs $140 for a spare battery it is a no brainer.
.

Last edited by activeflush; 02-20-2011 at 04:49 AM.
02-20-2011, 05:38 AM - 2 Likes   #34
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Well now, lets see if we can get a little bit of reality into the generic battery hysteria.

To begin with there is the ever present and popular fear of the exploding battery that people talk about. Of course while the design and chemistry of Lithium Ion batteries is such that this is indeed a possibility and it has happened, the reality is that this is an extreme rare event. Of course I do not have any official figures but the general consensus is that this is less than a hand full per million batteries produced/sold. Every battery manufacturer (and the biggest ones are now to be found in China) is truly shit scared that any of their products could be involved in such a disaster because it would cost them millions. There are millions and millions of batteries being manufactured every year and how often have you heard of catastrophic battery failures. Apart from those well publicised (celebrated ones), not many.

I happen to know that all the major Chinese battery manufacturers make "generic" and "brand name batteries". Just consider this: One of the biggest battery makers in the world by
the name of BYD in Shenzhen China make absolutely top class Lithium Ion cells and when big brand name international companies would ask them to supply them with batteries for their
devices they would be supplied by BYD with the best product in their lineup. This "best product" however is not a product they keep in the drawer just in case a camera maker for example comes along shopping. (If they already know how to make a good cell why would the want to make also an inferior one.) No it is the same battery they make everyday, because the best battery they can make is all they want to do. And the quantities of such brand name labeled orders would not be enough to keep them afloat. SO THEY ALL MAKE GENERIC AND SHRINK TUBE CELLS and these come from the same production line. Also the majority of Chinese Battery makers now have ISO CERTIFICATIONS and they will not want to risk de-registration because of any malfunctioning cells. China has come a long way, believe me.

If, for example, you walk into the offices of Shenzhen Huishitai Electronics Co. battery makers tomorrow, show them a PENTAX battery (or any other) and tell them you wish to buy 20,000 of them, they will ask you two questions: When do you want us to deliver and what label do you want us to stick on. (And they will organize the design and printing for you.) The quality of the battery will be exactly the same they make for anybody else.

So now I hear you ask how come that some of the generic batteries demonstrably are not so good. To answer this you must understand Lithium Ion batteries start to degrade the very moment they leave the factory and in general will only last 3-4 years whether they are being used or not. So when you purchase a battery from an unknown e-Bayer and he sells you a battery he had sitting on the shelf for 2 or 3 years you finish up with a battery nearing the end of its life. Also do not buy a Lithium Ion battery and keep it for later thinking if I do not use the battery I will have a new one when I need it. Wrong! As stated above, it will degrade whether you use it or not. So it is better to use it, don't run it empty but re-charge well before it is empty and you prolong the live of the cell. And here I concede, I think it is less likely to buy an out of date brandname battery then a generic one.

So why do Lithium Ion cells catch fire or "explode". Well Li-ion cells almost always only catch fire when they overheat. They are extremely sensitive to heat. Inside the cell the anode and cathode is kept apart by a separator and a fluid acts as an electrolyte. I am not a chemist but I understand external heat (Cell on a hot dashboard) or an external short (bunch of keys in you trouser pocket where you keep an unprotected battery) can cause the separator to break down and you get an internal short. More heat builds up, pressure builds up and a safety vent in the battery lets the electrolyte escape and the surrounding heat or a spark can/will ignite it and you have a fire. It is also important to know that Li-ion cells have a heat sensor build in and it will shut down the battery to prevent further heat build up. But things do break down from time to time, the same as planes sometimes crash but we still regard them as a save way to travel.

So go ahead by a generic from a REPUTABLE dealer (not the very cheap one on e-bay) and you wont be disappointed. (So far I can tell you I have not been)

Greetings from sunny Melbourne

02-20-2011, 10:01 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by vanakaru Quote
When in movie mode use only original batteries. Batteries get hot and non originals may even explode.
Good point, BTW!
Oh dear oh dear, I can just picture it now. On my next outing little black mushroom clouds rising up to the sky everywhere. People running around with charcoaled faces holding the remainder of their camera in their hands. Television news crews don't come anymore because they have seen it so many times before and they know it only happens because people use generic batteries.

VANAKARU, this is precisely the uninformed view that creates all the paranoia over generic batteries. It also suggests you know very little about Lithium Ion batteries.

Behind every Li-Ion battery lies an impressive bit of chemical and electronic engineering. In every Li-Ion battery you will find electric circuitry which constantly monitors/manages the performance of the cell. In its main it comprises of a small computing device and several temperature sensing taps. Because Li-Ion batteries are very sensitive to heat (and when under stress they can get hot easily) the little computer in them will shut the battery down when it gets too hot to prevent further heat build up and thereby preventing catastrophic failure.

Also in your example the camera would most likely shut down its video operation (because the sensor gets hot also) before the battery has a chance to "explode".

The little "computer" inside the battery is on all the time even when the battery is sitting on the shelf and it uses power, in fact this is the reason why Li-Ion cells slowly discharge even when they are not in use.

So, please do not spread untruths and scare people. These days when a Li-Ion battery catastrophically fails it is truly a very very rare and uncommon event and is most likely the result of abuse or mistreatment.

Greetings from sunny Melbourne
02-21-2011, 01:37 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
Oh dear oh dear, I can just picture it now. On my next outing little black mushroom clouds rising up to the sky everywhere. People running around with charcoaled faces holding the remainder of their camera in their hands. Television news crews don't come anymore because they have seen it so many times before and they know it only happens because people use generic batteries.

VANAKARU, this is precisely the uninformed view that creates all the paranoia over generic batteries. It also suggests you know very little about Lithium Ion batteries.

Behind every Li-Ion battery lies an impressive bit of chemical and electronic engineering. In every Li-Ion battery you will find electric circuitry which constantly monitors/manages the performance of the cell. In its main it comprises of a small computing device and several temperature sensing taps. Because Li-Ion batteries are very sensitive to heat (and when under stress they can get hot easily) the little computer in them will shut the battery down when it gets too hot to prevent further heat build up and thereby preventing catastrophic failure.

Also in your example the camera would most likely shut down its video operation (because the sensor gets hot also) before the battery has a chance to "explode".

The little "computer" inside the battery is on all the time even when the battery is sitting on the shelf and it uses power, in fact this is the reason why Li-Ion cells slowly discharge even when they are not in use.

So, please do not spread untruths and scare people. These days when a Li-Ion battery catastrophically fails it is truly a very very rare and uncommon event and is most likely the result of abuse or mistreatment.

Greetings from sunny Melbourne
Calm down now. I just translated the finnish message of 30v iPentax.
On the other hand all the generic Li batteries I have purchased from various sources (about 10 maybe) have performed inferior to the originals. Some of these have died after 2-3 charges.
Also I would not be so sure about Chinese industrial ethics. It is mass production from the most ruthless and caring nothing capitalism/communism. Probably the product sold to the original buyer pass control, but I have doubts that the same applies to the after market items. Also there are small businesses that sell stuff from questionable sources like industrial dumps. And you can not distinguish between an item and an other really.
eBay could be excellent source for buying batteries with the feedback system they have. Only feedback gets left before you see the problems arise usually. But if you compare the feedback and items sold you may find more trustworthy seller - maybe!
02-21-2011, 02:29 AM   #37
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That's why I stress throughout all my posts: Purchase generics from a REPUTABLE seller/dealer (at a higher price usually) and not from the "lowenders" at eBay at the cheapest price because they are the ones that get their stock from the sort of shady Chinese operators you describe in your post. Also please read my previous post carefully, particularly the part that explains that Li-Ion cells get out of date and when you say a lot of your batteries have died on you prematurely it could just simply be a case of "old stock". Old out of date batteries sold are more likely those that are more specialized, like camera batteries because they don't sell in big quantities. There is a whole layer of "underclass" dealers and traders operating in China that get the not so 100% stock and sell it cheaply, and here I totally agree with you sentiment. However, I can assure you there is quality to be found in China but as usually it costs a bit more. Again purchase from REPUTABLE DEALERS/SHOPS ! and generics won't be a problem.

Also a battery dying is quite different from one that is "exploding"
That is all I wanted to point out.

Greetings from sunny Melbourne
02-21-2011, 04:50 AM   #38
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Tarkoitin kun työskentelee yleis akulla ja tästä johtuen tulee kameraan vikaa. Jos joutuu takuu huoltoon on oltava se akku mukana joka aiheutti vian. Ja jos se ei ole Pentax oma akku ei takuu korvaa. Usein yleisakut tuottavat vahinkoa.



Last edited by 30v iPentax; 02-21-2011 at 05:16 AM.
02-21-2011, 04:58 AM   #39
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Yes this nonsense is repeated over and over again. It is no different from the nonsense about mobile/cell phones igniting petrol bowsers if used in a service station, you will still find attendants at service stations that believe this is true.
02-21-2011, 06:39 AM   #40
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I have used OEM and third party batteries in both my K10D and K20D cameras. The third party batterys were about 1/3 cheaper, but bought from a reputable camera dealer (one of the 2 biggest). My initial impression was that the OEM battery seemed to last a lot longer than the 3rd party ones so I kept careful records of the amount of shots for each battery. I had the original pentax and 3 third party batteries. The OEM would give me @ 400 shots before it needed recharging and 2 of the three third party batteries would give me @ 150 shots each. The final 3rd party battery died after two rechargings. This is after keeping careful records for over 2 yrs. So in the end, financially it's a wash. The OEM battery cost me 3X the price of the 3rd party batteries, but it lasts 3X as long. However this is only my experience, and with a sample of 1 OEM and a trio of 3rd party batteries...YMMV.

NaCl(but based on my own experience I will get a GEN-U-INE Pentax battery as my backup when I get my K5)H2O
02-21-2011, 08:28 AM   #41
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Interesting.

This all started out over a voltage difference. Well I measured the almost dead battery in K5 (Pentax original, 560 shots since last charge) and no load was 7.5 volts. My after market spare is fully charged and showing 8 volts no load.

What little experience I have of building and running electronics powered by batteries, and not regulated power supplies, is that they are not that fussy about the voltage within some fairly broad parameters.

Were this not true it would be impossible to run anything on rechargeable batteries - consider your flashgun - 4x 1.5v alkaline batteries - 6v, 4x 1.2v rechargeables - 4.8v; and some of those alkalines will be 1.6v or more when they are fresh out of the packet. Just stuck the meter on some cheap alkalines from the store cupboard, so not fresh ones, reading is 1.55v.

As for my experience of generics, well, so far had one fail, but as it was less than 1/5 the cost of a genuine one, I don't care.

My K20D eats batteries, no matter who's name is on them, the K10D and K5 seem to go for just about ever on one charge.

Later: OK, how stupid am I? The battery grip can use 6x 1.5v AA batteries - that's 9v nominal. More if they are new. Or if you use rechargeables 6x1.2v, 7.2v. So a battery running anywhere between 7.2v and 9.5v is going to be just fine.

Last edited by Tringle WP; 02-21-2011 at 08:41 AM. Reason: stupidity
02-21-2011, 09:50 AM   #42
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As for voltage - battery grip may have a zener diode built it that will pass only 6V and under. Probably so has the camera.
But some electronics can be very picky about current.
02-21-2011, 10:36 AM   #43
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I was also concerned that the Pearstone batteries for my K5 had this difference in spec, even though it was B & H's official replacement. I returned them and ordered a pair from bestbatt for $9 per and they have performed, near as I can tell, exactly the same as the Pentax, so far. Temperatures are the same after charge, last they same, etc.

I did basically the same for my K10. Rotated three batteries, two of which were the cheapest I could find that got good reviews (not the same, can't recall what or from where). They all acted identical. One of the spares started not keeping a charge after four years. In both of these instances I am very happy with my purchases of non-Pentax branded batteries.
02-21-2011, 11:41 AM   #44
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OK, I have now recharged my OEM battery - 8.2 volts.

QuoteOriginally posted by vanakaru Quote
As for voltage - battery grip may have a zener diode built it that will pass only 6V and under. Probably so has the camera.
But some electronics can be very picky about current.
If the battery grip would only pass 6v and under it would only need 4 AA batteries, but it has 6.

To my mind it's blindingly obvious that the K7/K5 is designed to work with a range of voltages between 7.2 and just over 9. The OEM battery at full charge falls just above half way between the two values.

I have no qualms about using my after market battery, even if it is slightly lower capacity, at least it's a good standby.
02-21-2011, 10:24 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by vanakaru Quote
When in movie mode use only original batteries. Batteries get hot and non originals may even explode.
Good point, BTW!


I've never heard so much scaremongering BS since the Western Elite started this War on Terror nonsense.

Hilarious!!
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