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01-05-2011, 09:24 PM   #406
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At f2 and up, it's very close to being perfect, if I make a fine adjustment of -4 on the FA 50 1.4

To me, that's quite acceptable. My k-r FF under artificial light big time (-10 doesn't even get close).

PS. that was tested at 0.5m distance from subject.

01-05-2011, 09:52 PM   #407
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QuoteOriginally posted by filorp Quote
ok i though that minus is on the right side of the screen, my camera is two months in service so i could to forget.... could i?
SORRY WHEATFIELD im buing beer - lots of beer!!!

Make it Oban and all is forgiven.
01-05-2011, 11:45 PM   #408
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
This thread is turning ill.
Pentax is turning ill more like...
01-06-2011, 12:02 AM   #409
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
just updated the new official release firmware...1.02.. doesn't fix this problem im afraid..fixes others though. that I didn't know I had ..LMAO
In reference to this and your other post- keep in mind we are all different and bump into different situations as we use our equipment. If I was shooting for example, shots in daylight, I wouldn't have noticed my K-5 issue.

The most important thing is to acknowledge that just because someone doesn't have a problem it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, even if there are internet people that will blow it out of proportion.

Looking at Wheat's attitude, it's pretty much "it's ok" for the most part. I know how to use manual focus and contrast AF, but this isn't the reason why I went with this camera though it's some of the reasons. The AF fail we are talking about here is worse than lower class of cameras, in that light.

Shooting a fast paced event can certainly be problematic. I had a potrait shot I had to reshoot again and once more and more unnecessarily because of this while the subject waited patiently.

Again, this isn't the end of the world for this camera, but it sure is an issue, and certainly for some of us a potential deal breaker in purchasing this.

Wheat's dismissive attitude "if you need world class AF you need to buy something else" is so condescending and ridiculous that it's hard to tell whether it's insulting or funny. It's replies like that that really make me wonder where his vaunted years of so called experience are as a "professional."

- Raist

01-06-2011, 02:03 AM   #410
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
dunno if F3.5 will show the problem as much ..you really need to be at 2.8 or wider to limit the DOF...try 50mm 1.4 at 1metre away...then let us know ?
As I said earlier it's obvious (on my k-5) even with the old 18-55 kit-lens, so much in the 18mm end that I don't even have to take a picture to look at. If aiming at an object 2meters away the focus ring will show 2m in EV 4 and above, while suddenly change to 1m when the light goes under EV 4 (roughly). There is no way I can compensate this error with the built in AF correction.

But if I use the 55mm end of the zoom this error does not show at all no matter how dark it is. I guess this is why some people don't see a problem, while other does.
01-06-2011, 02:12 AM   #411
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Hello.

I have been following this thread with great interest as I too bought a K5 just before Christmas. I'm not a professional photographer by any means, it's just a hobby for me, but I could tell right away that something was off with the camera. I didn't try to do any controlled test with the camera to find the AF problem or anything, it just showed on the pictures.

I was at a evening Christmas dinner party and it just could not focus on target and was severely front focusing. This was with the da 40mm lens at f 2.8 with flash.

I lost a lot of good shots with the kids with Santa etc.because of the faulty AF and found it completely unacceptable coming from a $1500 camera. I emailed Pentax about the problem I was having and have yet to get any kind of reply.Nothing ,nada. It's been well over a week.

I'm not sure which makes me more angry. This dog of a camera Pentax sold me or there complete lack of customer support.

Thankfully my retailer has a 15 day return policy so I took advantage of that and sent it back. Also my niece managed to capture the Christmas events with her 3 year old plastic Canon rebel, which had no problem what so ever focusing in the same light, so it wasn't a complete loss.

Pentax, you need better quality control and have to start communicating with your customers!

Thanks for letting me rant.
01-06-2011, 05:14 AM   #412
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QuoteOriginally posted by cpk Quote
How does one find the EV value for a photograph?
You can check it in your photo's EXIF (by PhotoME or ExifTool or other software), the camera puts the metered EV value in the Manufacturer's notes section (don't remember the tag name and I don't have any photo on this pc).
01-06-2011, 07:15 AM   #413
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when the next firmware comes out..and this problem gets sorted { please please please }

..we are all gonna look like right royal Goons.....

01-06-2011, 07:37 AM - 1 Like   #414
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QuoteOriginally posted by raist3d Quote

Wheat's dismissive attitude "if you need world class AF you need to buy something else" is so condescending and ridiculous that it's hard to tell whether it's insulting or funny. It's replies like that that really make me wonder where his vaunted years of so called experience are as a "professional."

- Raist
Since 1974 I've rarely had a "perfect" camera. My Oly OM-1 (bought new when current) had a flakey meter, my Nikon F2 had a tendency to not meter in very cold weather, My Bronica ETR-s had a habit of popping open the film door, dropping the insert and exposing the film, my Nikon F3 had a habit of shedding lenses on a whim, my Pentax 6x7 developed a very bad case of film advancitus (frame overlap), All three of my LX were unreliable, metering could not be trusted and it (by design) decided when to fire the flash and when not to, not to mention mirror bumpers that would melt and knock the camera out of focus register, I had a Super Program that was unusable at 1/8 - 1/30 second unless mounted to a 15 pound tripod because of mirror slap.
If I get a camera that mostly works and whose failings can be worked around, I'm happy.
So far, my experience with Pentax DSLRs has been pretty positive, my istD, while infuriatingly slow, to the point of being unusable as a wedding camera, worked flawlessly, though it's TTL flash control was typical garbage Pentax, both my K10 and K20 worked well within their high ISO limits, as does my K7.
The past 7 years has actually been quite refreshing because I've had cameras that work, even if they didn't work fast enough due to Pentax being so far behind the performance curve.
Pentax AF has NEVER been good enough for professional use, AF points have not been in the right place, AF points have been big enough that placing a point on an eye might just end up focusing on the nose anyway, I've had AF lock ups on my K10, K20 and K7 where the AF has apparently locked, and the camera has refused to fire until after the moment had passed.
And typical garbage Pentax flash control, though now it's called P-TTL. I suspect the P stands for p*ss poor

So no, I don't see this as that big a deal. In the grand scheme of things, I see this as same old, same old. I've dealt with it with every camera maker I've bought from.
What professionals do is figure out how to get the pictures they need to get with the equipment they have.

Besides, it's so much fun to tweak you peoples' noses until you are frothing at the mouth and then watch the resulting apoplectic histrionics that I just can't help doing it.

Enjoy photographing your focus charts, I believe I have a glamor shoot for a Valentines Day gift today.
I love my job.
01-06-2011, 07:57 AM   #415
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did anyone check the issue wit new officially announced firmware?
01-06-2011, 08:09 AM   #416
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QuoteOriginally posted by filorp Quote
did anyone check the issue wit new officially announced firmware?
yes...........
01-06-2011, 08:12 AM   #417
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Wheatfield, although I would like to disagree, I can't really find that you are dead wrong in your findings. While I have found my K20D to be "almost" perfect, there are still shortcomings with the flash system and with the speed of focusing.
I do believe that the FF issue, for those that have it, and I still don't understand how "some do" and "some don't"....is a major problem that can't be left to chance for a new buyer.

Alternatives? There are always alternatives but their is always some loss in change that may be more than anticipated. While I find the D700 Forum to have the fewest unhappy users of any camera site I have visited, and I have visited many, it too has its problems. I am thinking of buying one, but in my heart I know it is foolish for my usage. I have bypassed the urge to "Buy Now" hoping that my reason will kick in and bring me back to reality. The K5 getting "straightened out" would help speed this considerably. I don't see the IQ of the D700 as being much if any better than the K5 for most shooting needs. The K5 suits my needs perfectly, and should for most here, but it needs to perform to the uses we expect to have without a lot of "workaround" adjusting and readjusting lens after lens for different lighting.

As for perfection, no one will find it in any camera at any price, you are dead right. I also remind myself of one of my favorite levelers when I get the urge to make a major change in cameras or anything else..."The Devil I Know Is Better Than The Devil I Don't Know". This is too true too often to ignore.
Beast Regards
01-06-2011, 09:48 AM   #418
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Wheatfield, although I would like to disagree, I can't really find that you are dead wrong in your findings. While I have found my K20D to be "almost" perfect, there are still shortcomings with the flash system and with the speed of focusing.
I do believe that the FF issue, for those that have it, and I still don't understand how "some do" and "some don't"....is a major problem that can't be left to chance for a new buyer.
"Some do"and "Some don't" does not sound like a software issue as we all seem to have the same software . So it seems a hardware issue where some bodies have presumably bad "+" sensors and others have a good one.

So a simple FW update won't do the trick as it may have an adverse effect on those with bodies that show no problems. There are however two options, either a FW update whcih only tackles this problem (and Pentax would ahve annonce that this FW update is only for those with affected cameras or a FW update that would not solve the problem itsself but that would allow mor AF adjustment than what is now available so eachuser can set the correction.

I have now discovered that on my third and soon to be replaced stained body I may have this issue as I do notice some FF if I shoot my DA*55/1.4 in low tungsten light (think 1/20 or 1/10 af f1.4 with ISO 800.) I see no probes in "normal tungsten) light (same settings at1/60) or low LED light.

And compared to the fabled K20D in this low light?? same lens but no lock....
01-06-2011, 03:23 PM   #419
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Thanks for sharing your expertise in this area. Contributions from experienced shooters like yourself is what makes this forum great.

Having said that, the K-5 and K-r have significant issues that ultimately affect picture quality. As a result, the problems cannot be overlooked as mere camera quirks. DSLRs are sophisticated machines, no doubt. There is just no excuse for the serious flaws that exist in these cameras.

Technologies like auto-focus and white balance are hardly new. If they were, in fact, cutting edge, the story would be much different. It's clear to me that Pentax needs to allocate more resources in a way that ensures better engineered and manufacturerd products.

Photographers just want a tool that doesn't get in the way of capturing the many aspects of humanity and our surroundings. Unfortunately, they seem to be focused on silly things like 3,000 body colors with interchangeable grips.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Since 1974 I've rarely had a "perfect" camera. My Oly OM-1 (bought new when current) had a flakey meter, my Nikon F2 had a tendency to not meter in very cold weather, My Bronica ETR-s had a habit of popping open the film door, dropping the insert and exposing the film, my Nikon F3 had a habit of shedding lenses on a whim, my Pentax 6x7 developed a very bad case of film advancitus (frame overlap), All three of my LX were unreliable, metering could not be trusted and it (by design) decided when to fire the flash and when not to, not to mention mirror bumpers that would melt and knock the camera out of focus register, I had a Super Program that was unusable at 1/8 - 1/30 second unless mounted to a 15 pound tripod because of mirror slap.
If I get a camera that mostly works and whose failings can be worked around, I'm happy.
So far, my experience with Pentax DSLRs has been pretty positive, my istD, while infuriatingly slow, to the point of being unusable as a wedding camera, worked flawlessly, though it's TTL flash control was typical garbage Pentax, both my K10 and K20 worked well within their high ISO limits, as does my K7.
The past 7 years has actually been quite refreshing because I've had cameras that work, even if they didn't work fast enough due to Pentax being so far behind the performance curve.
Pentax AF has NEVER been good enough for professional use, AF points have not been in the right place, AF points have been big enough that placing a point on an eye might just end up focusing on the nose anyway, I've had AF lock ups on my K10, K20 and K7 where the AF has apparently locked, and the camera has refused to fire until after the moment had passed.
And typical garbage Pentax flash control, though now it's called P-TTL. I suspect the P stands for p*ss poor

So no, I don't see this as that big a deal. In the grand scheme of things, I see this as same old, same old. I've dealt with it with every camera maker I've bought from.
What professionals do is figure out how to get the pictures they need to get with the equipment they have.

Besides, it's so much fun to tweak you peoples' noses until you are frothing at the mouth and then watch the resulting apoplectic histrionics that I just can't help doing it.

Enjoy photographing your focus charts, I believe I have a glamor shoot for a Valentines Day gift today.
I love my job.
01-06-2011, 03:32 PM   #420
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Hi all, after a bit of a 'fractiousness' on Flickr with Rupert, about a tongue-in-cheek comment I made about how, against the odds, I've got a camera (K-5) and lens combination (Tammy 70-200 f/2.8) that could actually focus, he asked me to post here with results from a low light tugsten focus test. The reason I'm doing this is not to start more disagreement, but merely to show that it is possible to get a K-5 that works (it's not all doom and gloom)
So a quick intro to me, I've got 25 years of engineering experience and have worked in the movie industry for a while (as well as military and high end telecomms), so I have a fairly methodical approach to look for and solve problems. As I think this is probably my first post I thought I'd better give you a little heads .... I realise this doesn't mean I DO know what I'm talking about, but I've got a fair idea.
So first, a shot that was taken with the 70-200, and a 100%ish crop. I took two lenses, this and the 28-75 f/2.8, before I went I checked for ff/bf, in daylight, and adjusted both lenses slightly (as I had to do for the K-7 beforehand). I should report that the adjustment was pretty much the same for both cameras, but the 28-75 was pretty much spot on anyway.
The good stuff
200mm f/4, ISO 400. 1/500th sec


and the crop


So anyway, enough of the that stuff.

This I posted in response to a question from Rupert
ISO160, 1.0s, tungsten lit with tungsten WB (and a bit from the tv)
Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 at 75mm and 2.8, about 3m away.



The focal point is at the top of the radiator
and a crop


I should also say, the focussing assist light did come on when taking this shot. Focus was hit first time and quickly.

Please feel free to fire any questions or comments, but I'm off to bed now (in the uk) so it might be a while before I respond.
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