who cares for bad AF under tungsten light ?

znieh · 12-19-2010, 03:26 PM

Oh thanks to all posters here claiming this FF issue under different light conditions!

Of course I had the same issue and posted here and there just to realize that it was simply ignored. So my thinking was all others have well-working K5?!!

I had four (4) K5 during a week or so, and all of them had the same issue. (however, it seems that not all batches are defective, judging from some replies)

I agree with Horst-Helmut that this is a mayor problem for Pentax if they do not react soon. This post is the first one I see showing more than one or two affected customers. Hopefully it will help put something in motion, so do Pentaxeros (adelante!).
I for my part returned also my last K5 and bought a D7000. HEAR THAT PENTAX?? And I tell you: I was a great fan (and - desperately - STILL AM, hoping for a fix!!). I owned K10 and K20 and was happy until THAT DISAPPOINTMENT.

dreamfoto · 12-19-2010, 03:30 PM

Thanks for the samples!

That is pretty severe ... ouch... I would say I can replicate with any manual lens too... just take a subject exactly let's say 2 meters away from the camera and try to focus under tungsten while following the focus hint (holding the AF button) . Once the AF hint is on - look at the distance scale on the lens - suggested focus is around 1.5meters... off quite a bit. Take the two photos - at 2m and 1.5 and compare.

JamieP · 12-19-2010, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxeros

solo en bajas condiciones de luz de tungsteno.

In the tests where I was observing this problem, I considered the lighting to be natural. I was using interence pattern testing- shooting at an image on my lcd monitor. Now, I'm wondering if in the shots in dim light the lcd light became the primary source and caused the issue.

Fer · 12-19-2010, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by dgaies

Have you considered that candlelight, which had a color temp of 1800-2000K, might be outside the range for which the AF system was designed to work? It's certainly outside the range where AWB works.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect a semi-pro camera like K-5 (or any similar model from any brand) to be able to focus in these circumstances. But no matter, I have replicated the same results in tugnsten light in my living room.

Originally posted by apisto

Fer,

Do you have a K-7, and if so, does it respond the same way in this focusing test?

I don't, sorry. It'd be interesting to know, but the test setting is simple enough for any forum member to try and reproduce it with any camera/lens combo.

Originally posted by Pentaxeros

The problem is only with lens focusing screw, and only in low tungsten light conditions.

SDM or HSM lens, it does not, with SDM or HSM, the focus is perfect in any lighting.

Pentax, correct this by firmware soon.

Greetings ...

Two important things:

1) It's not tungsten light only, as I've shown in my post here, (Pentaxeros probably doesn't remember that I have posted the same images at the Spanish forum; either that, or he has tested his K-5 units in candlelight and has not encountered the same problem).

2) The automatic translation of his post is wrong. It should read "Pentax will correct this by firmware soon", which is what he's been saying over at the Spanish forum for two weeks already. Given his tight connections with the Spanish Pentax distributor, I think we can take his word for it.

Pentaxeros · 12-19-2010, 04:05 PM - **1 Like**

Gracias por el apunte Fer, así es, con luz de tungsteno y temperaturas de color similares.

Yo he probado la K-7 K-5 y K-r y la K-7 no tiene este problema. Solo la K-5 y K-r y con objetivos de tornillo, y como he dicho Pentax trabaja en ello para solucionarlo brevemente mediante firmware.

Con lente SDM, el enfoque es siempre perfecto, con todo tipo de condición lumínica.

Saludos...

dgaies · 12-19-2010, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Fer

Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect a semi-pro camera like K-5 (or any similar model from any brand) to be able to focus in these circumstances. But no matter, I have replicated the same results in tugnsten light in my living room.

FWIW, I wasn't passing judgement on whether or not the K-5 should be able to handle it, I was just wondering if maybe it simply can't handle very low temperature light well (Tungsten and below).

pikoli · 12-19-2010, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxeros

Con lente SDM, el enfoque es siempre perfecto, con todo tipo de condición lumínica.

even whit k-r? I mean, does the k-r focus perfectly with HSM and SDM lenses under tungsten light?

pcarfan · 12-19-2010, 07:39 PM

I've been busy lately and couldn't test this thoroughly, but I am having problems with my K-5 with the testing I've done.

I made sure the 16-45 focus was spot on in day light and then in Tungten light it is severly front focussing, so much so the AF fine tune cannot even compensate for it. I know the K-7 didn't have such issues. If it remains so, the low light advantage of the k-5 is pretty useless to me. (LV heats up too much with in a few shots).

I didn't quite understand the post above which talks of a polish forum. hopefully it says Pentax is working on a fix.

bjan · 12-20-2010, 04:07 AM

Meanwhile a lot of potential K5 christmas camera`s will not be bought because of the issue ! If PENTAX does not react within 1 week from now I would say they screwed up totally . Wich photgrapher being serious about what gear he is using will step over the fact that he can`t use the camera with fast settings in artificial light ! It is just where this category of camera`s should shine ! Low light / available light photography is not possible with this camera . I was out for a dinner last night with my CANON S95 and was so happy that I had all shots nailed re focus. It was a relief compared to my frustrations from the past weeks with my K5. Isn`t that odd that I am more happy with a good compact than with my K5 ? Bring the K5 back to your dealer and make PENTAX think twice before they release a camera . The time and hassle it costs us consumers is worth the punishment to PENTAX. However if the issue would ever be solved I will be in front of the line again to buy one. (I have to stay honest here !) But anger and frustration should be felt in PENTAX. I think it already does by many potential buyers going elsewhere reading our postings about the non AF capability of the K5 under certain light conditions

falconeye · 12-20-2010, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by Pentaxeros

Hola, soy el administrador de Pentaxeros.com, el foro Pentax en Español, y de una tienda de fotografia especializada en Pentax.

Hace ya tiempo, realice un estudio que reporte a Pentax sobre los problemas de enfoque bajo luz de tungsteno.
Analice mas de 25 unidades de K-5, y todas responden igual.

Kudos and Thanks to Pentaxeros for this good test. Rep added.

There was an earlier thread about the issue here and I confirmed the issue for my own K-5. It needs be fixed.

So, while the K-5 probably is the best APSC camera money can buy and will win many friends, Pentax needs to fix all three teething issues asap:

Stains (I think it may almost be considered "solved" by now when buying from the right dealer who do the check prior to shipping).
Flash issues (Metz and others)
AF with fast lens under low light tungsten

I am confident all three problems will be solved soon.

Tommot1965 · 12-20-2010, 05:06 AM

i was just reading about this issue at the DPR forum...not good enough is it...i want a K5..but its getting harder and harder to justify the extra coin until all the problems are sorted..

falconeye · 12-20-2010, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Tommot1965

i was just reading about this issue at the DPR forum...not good enough is it...i want a K5..but its getting harder and harder to justify the extra coin until all the problems are sorted..

Possibly.
However, I'm getting stunning results from my K-5 and wouldn't want to miss a day I already used it. It depends on the question if your life is finite, I guess.

Tommot1965 · 12-20-2010, 05:36 AM

sorry Falk..your way too smart for me sunshine..you'll have to dumb yourself down a tad to make me understand you..

Id say most here have bought a K5 for the extra it can give in low light shooting [thats why i want one

]..only to now find out it cant focus correctly under tungsten light { just about the biggest form of indoor lighting]

if it wasn't so serious Id laugh....mind you Todd had a shot at it..and couldn't replicate the problem with his gear..so is it hit and miss

Fer · 12-20-2010, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Possibly.
However, I'm getting stunning results from my K-5 and wouldn't want to miss a day I already used it. It depends on the question if your life is finite, I guess.

Well, if you already have it (K5), you might as well enjoy it (as I'm doing). But this issue is serious enough to justify holding off a decision to buy a K5 until the new firmware is released and the problem is solved. I mean, we don't even have an OFFICIAL aknowledgment of the issue nor a confirmation by Pentax that they are indeed working on a firmware to fix this.

pcarfan · 12-20-2010, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by bjan

Meanwhile a lot of potential K5 christmas camera`s will not be bought because of the issue ! If PENTAX does not react within 1 week from now I would say they screwed up totally . Wich photgrapher being serious about what gear he is using will step over the fact that he can`t use the camera with fast settings in artificial light ! It is just where this category of camera`s should shine ! Low light / available light photography is not possible with this camera . I was out for a dinner last night with my CANON S95 and was so happy that I had all shots nailed re focus. It was a relief compared to my frustrations from the past weeks with my K5. Isn`t that odd that I am more happy with a good compact than with my K5 ? Bring the K5 back to your dealer and make PENTAX think twice before they release a camera . The time and hassle it costs us consumers is worth the punishment to PENTAX. However if the issue would ever be solved I will be in front of the line again to buy one. (I have to stay honest here !) But anger and frustration should be felt in PENTAX. I think it already does by many potential buyers going elsewhere reading our postings about the non AF capability of the K5 under certain light conditions

I bought the K-5 now and didn't wait for the prices to go down, just so I can use it for the upcoming New Year's party.

Well! this forum and the other didn't make it easy on me either

, but I am sticking to my story

....No, seriously, I don't shoot much in winter. I have a bit more time than you to need this camera, but I hope Pentax does something SOON.

12-19-2010, 03:26 PM	#46
znieh New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Berlin Posts: 15	Thank you thank you thank you!! Oh thanks to all posters here claiming this FF issue under different light conditions! Of course I had the same issue and posted here and there just to realize that it was simply ignored. So my thinking was all others have well-working K5?!! I had four (4) K5 during a week or so, and all of them had the same issue. (however, it seems that not all batches are defective, judging from some replies) I agree with Horst-Helmut that this is a mayor problem for Pentax if they do not react soon. This post is the first one I see showing more than one or two affected customers. Hopefully it will help put something in motion, so do Pentaxeros (adelante!). I for my part returned also my last K5 and bought a D7000. HEAR THAT PENTAX?? And I tell you: I was a great fan (and - desperately - STILL AM, hoping for a fix!!). I owned K10 and K20 and was happy until THAT DISAPPOINTMENT.

12-19-2010, 03:30 PM	#47
dreamfoto Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: france Photos: Albums Posts: 163	replicated the problem Thanks for the samples! That is pretty severe ... ouch... I would say I can replicate with any manual lens too... just take a subject exactly let's say 2 meters away from the camera and try to focus under tungsten while following the focus hint (holding the AF button) . Once the AF hint is on - look at the distance scale on the lens - suggested focus is around 1.5meters... off quite a bit. Take the two photos - at 2m and 1.5 and compare.

12-20-2010, 04:32 AM	#55
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Pentaxeros Hola, soy el administrador de Pentaxeros.com, el foro Pentax en Español, y de una tienda de fotografia especializada en Pentax. Hace ya tiempo, realice un estudio que reporte a Pentax sobre los problemas de enfoque bajo luz de tungsteno. Analice mas de 25 unidades de K-5, y todas responden igual. Kudos and Thanks to Pentaxeros for this good test. Rep added. There was an earlier thread about the issue here and I confirmed the issue for my own K-5. It needs be fixed. So, while the K-5 probably is the best APSC camera money can buy and will win many friends, Pentax needs to fix all three teething issues asap: Stains (I think it may almost be considered "solved" by now when buying from the right dealer who do the check prior to shipping). Flash issues (Metz and others) AF with fast lens under low light tungsten I am confident all three problems will be solved soon.

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12-19-2010, 03:30 PM	#48
JamieP Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cleveland Posts: 132	Originally posted by Pentaxeros solo en bajas condiciones de luz de tungsteno. In the tests where I was observing this problem, I considered the lighting to be natural. I was using interence pattern testing- shooting at an image on my lcd monitor. Now, I'm wondering if in the shots in dim light the lcd light became the primary source and caused the issue.

12-19-2010, 03:56 PM	#49
Fer Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Madrid Posts: 66	Originally posted by dgaies Have you considered that candlelight, which had a color temp of 1800-2000K, might be outside the range for which the AF system was designed to work? It's certainly outside the range where AWB works. Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect a semi-pro camera like K-5 (or any similar model from any brand) to be able to focus in these circumstances. But no matter, I have replicated the same results in tugnsten light in my living room. Originally posted by apisto Fer, Do you have a K-7, and if so, does it respond the same way in this focusing test? I don't, sorry. It'd be interesting to know, but the test setting is simple enough for any forum member to try and reproduce it with any camera/lens combo. Originally posted by Pentaxeros The problem is only with lens focusing screw, and only in low tungsten light conditions. SDM or HSM lens, it does not, with SDM or HSM, the focus is perfect in any lighting. Pentax, correct this by firmware soon. Greetings ... Two important things: 1) It's not tungsten light only, as I've shown in my post here, (Pentaxeros probably doesn't remember that I have posted the same images at the Spanish forum; either that, or he has tested his K-5 units in candlelight and has not encountered the same problem). 2) The automatic translation of his post is wrong. It should read "Pentax will correct this by firmware soon", which is what he's been saying over at the Spanish forum for two weeks already. Given his tight connections with the Spanish Pentax distributor, I think we can take his word for it.

12-19-2010, 04:05 PM - 1 Like	#50
Pentaxeros New Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 20	Gracias por el apunte Fer, así es, con luz de tungsteno y temperaturas de color similares. Yo he probado la K-7 K-5 y K-r y la K-7 no tiene este problema. Solo la K-5 y K-r y con objetivos de tornillo, y como he dicho Pentax trabaja en ello para solucionarlo brevemente mediante firmware. Con lente SDM, el enfoque es siempre perfecto, con todo tipo de condición lumínica. Saludos...

12-19-2010, 04:06 PM	#51
dgaies Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Maryland / Washington DC Posts: 3,917	Originally posted by Fer Maybe I'm wrong, but I would expect a semi-pro camera like K-5 (or any similar model from any brand) to be able to focus in these circumstances. But no matter, I have replicated the same results in tugnsten light in my living room. FWIW, I wasn't passing judgement on whether or not the K-5 *should* be able to handle it, I was just wondering if maybe it simply can't handle very low temperature light well (Tungsten and below).

12-19-2010, 04:32 PM	#52
pikoli New Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 15	Originally posted by Pentaxeros Con lente SDM, el enfoque es siempre perfecto, con todo tipo de condición lumínica. even whit k-r? I mean, does the k-r focus perfectly with HSM and SDM lenses under tungsten light?

12-19-2010, 07:39 PM	#53
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	I've been busy lately and couldn't test this thoroughly, but I am having problems with my K-5 with the testing I've done. I made sure the 16-45 focus was spot on in day light and then in Tungten light it is severly front focussing, so much so the AF fine tune cannot even compensate for it. I know the K-7 didn't have such issues. If it remains so, the low light advantage of the k-5 is pretty useless to me. (LV heats up too much with in a few shots). I didn't quite understand the post above which talks of a polish forum. hopefully it says Pentax is working on a fix.

12-20-2010, 04:07 AM	#54
bjan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 116 Original Poster	Meanwhile a lot of potential K5 christmas camera`s will not be bought because of the issue ! If PENTAX does not react within 1 week from now I would say they screwed up totally . Wich photgrapher being serious about what gear he is using will step over the fact that he can`t use the camera with fast settings in artificial light ! It is just where this category of camera`s should shine ! Low light / available light photography is not possible with this camera . I was out for a dinner last night with my CANON S95 and was so happy that I had all shots nailed re focus. It was a relief compared to my frustrations from the past weeks with my K5. Isn`t that odd that I am more happy with a good compact than with my K5 ? Bring the K5 back to your dealer and make PENTAX think twice before they release a camera . The time and hassle it costs us consumers is worth the punishment to PENTAX. However if the issue would ever be solved I will be in front of the line again to buy one. (I have to stay honest here !) But anger and frustration should be felt in PENTAX. I think it already does by many potential buyers going elsewhere reading our postings about the non AF capability of the K5 under certain light conditions

12-20-2010, 05:06 AM	#56
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	i was just reading about this issue at the DPR forum...not good enough is it...i want a K5..but its getting harder and harder to justify the extra coin until all the problems are sorted..

12-20-2010, 05:23 AM	#57
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Tommot1965 i was just reading about this issue at the DPR forum...not good enough is it...i want a K5..but its getting harder and harder to justify the extra coin until all the problems are sorted.. Possibly. However, I'm getting stunning results from my K-5 and wouldn't want to miss a day I already used it. It depends on the question if your life is finite, I guess.

12-20-2010, 05:36 AM	#58
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	sorry Falk..your way too smart for me sunshine..you'll have to dumb yourself down a tad to make me understand you.. Id say most here have bought a K5 for the extra it can give in low light shooting [thats why i want one ]..only to now find out it cant focus correctly under tungsten light { just about the biggest form of indoor lighting] if it wasn't so serious Id laugh....mind you Todd had a shot at it..and couldn't replicate the problem with his gear..so is it hit and miss

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12-20-2010, 05:50 AM	#59
Fer Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Madrid Posts: 66	Originally posted by falconeye Possibly. However, I'm getting stunning results from my K-5 and wouldn't want to miss a day I already used it. It depends on the question if your life is finite, I guess. Well, if you already have it (K5), you might as well enjoy it (as I'm doing). But this issue is serious enough to justify holding off a decision to buy a K5 until the new firmware is released and the problem is solved. I mean, we don't even have an OFFICIAL aknowledgment of the issue nor a confirmation by Pentax that they are indeed working on a firmware to fix this.

12-20-2010, 05:50 AM	#60
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	Originally posted by bjan Meanwhile a lot of potential K5 christmas camera`s will not be bought because of the issue ! If PENTAX does not react within 1 week from now I would say they screwed up totally . Wich photgrapher being serious about what gear he is using will step over the fact that he can`t use the camera with fast settings in artificial light ! It is just where this category of camera`s should shine ! Low light / available light photography is not possible with this camera . I was out for a dinner last night with my CANON S95 and was so happy that I had all shots nailed re focus. It was a relief compared to my frustrations from the past weeks with my K5. Isn`t that odd that I am more happy with a good compact than with my K5 ? Bring the K5 back to your dealer and make PENTAX think twice before they release a camera . The time and hassle it costs us consumers is worth the punishment to PENTAX. However if the issue would ever be solved I will be in front of the line again to buy one. (I have to stay honest here !) But anger and frustration should be felt in PENTAX. I think it already does by many potential buyers going elsewhere reading our postings about the non AF capability of the K5 under certain light conditions I bought the K-5 now and didn't wait for the prices to go down, just so I can use it for the upcoming New Year's party. Well! this forum and the other didn't make it easy on me either , but I am sticking to my story ....No, seriously, I don't shoot much in winter. I have a bit more time than you to need this camera, but I hope Pentax does something SOON.