[Kunzite]

No, I don't think it's entirely "dead on"; few things are missing:
- Pentax is much stronger than Minolta was.
- Hoya might not sell out Pentax, now that they're profitable and things are going well. Hoya is not like Sparx.
- Hoya are far from being incompetent. It takes time for their strategy to be formulated and put in practice, and certainly a strategy that makes sense is not "make tons of cameras and lenses in order to gain as much market share as you can". K-5 is one of the results, and I must say I like what I'm seeing.
- Samsung, with their deep pockets, what had they done? Their position on the market (DSLR+mirrorless only, i.e. K-mount vs. NX) is far below Pentax; would they truly be able to raise Pentax to Canikon's level? Are they more competent than Hoya, and how is that - given the results?
I'm glad Pentax is with Hoya, and not with Samsung.

[krebsy75]

I believe Rupert was describing a worst case scenario if in fact Samsung bought Pentax out.

No, I don't think it's entirely "dead on"; few things are missing:
- Pentax is much stronger than Minolta was.
- Hoya might not sell out Pentax, now that they're profitable and things are going well. Hoya is not like Sparx.
- Hoya are far from being incompetent. It takes time for their strategy to be formulated and put in practice, and certainly a strategy that makes sense is not "make tons of cameras and lenses in order to gain as much market share as you can". K-5 is one of the results, and I must say I like what I'm seeing.
- Samsung, with their deep pockets, what had they done? Their position on the market (DSLR+mirrorless only, i.e. K-mount vs. NX) is far below Pentax; would they truly be able to raise Pentax to Canikon's level? Are they more competent than Hoya, and how is that - given the results?
I'm glad Pentax is with Hoya, and not with Samsung.

[Rupert]

No, I don't think it's entirely "dead on"; few things are missing:
- Pentax is much stronger than Minolta was.
- Hoya might not sell out Pentax, now that they're profitable and things are going well. Hoya is not like Sparx.
- Hoya are far from being incompetent. It takes time for their strategy to be formulated and put in practice, and certainly a strategy that makes sense is not "make tons of cameras and lenses in order to gain as much market share as you can". K-5 is one of the results, and I must say I like what I'm seeing.
- Samsung, with their deep pockets, what had they done? Their position on the market (DSLR+mirrorless only, i.e. K-mount vs. NX) is far below Pentax; would they truly be able to raise Pentax to Canikon's level? Are they more competent than Hoya, and how is that - given the results?
I'm glad Pentax is with Hoya, and not with Samsung.

Well, those are just more positive reasons from a different viewpoint, so I can't find any reason to be all down and gloomy from your perspective either. It is hard to view any situation where we would be stranded without hope, either from your view or mine....so back to shooting some nice shots to post here!
Best Regards!

BTW- As a Samsung stockholder myself.......do some research, they seldom fail at any endeavor, and yes they could buy out Nikon, Canon, Hoya and even Sony...with pocket change. Would I like them to buy Pentax...you bet! you can't find a store in America that doesn't have Samsung electronic products, and only a few short years ago they didn't even exist. When they go for the gold, they get it. Marketing is not a problem for Samsung, they are Pros.

[Jeff Charles]

Guys, I admit to playing this head game myself off and on...and like Measurebating, it can drive you insane....some say it has already debilitated my mind, but it truth it was already kind of weak.

I normally don't let this stuff bother me, but the gap was so large that I reacted to it and posted. It caught me off guard.

The facts are not really any different today than they were a few years ago......Pentax is not a Big Time Player like Nikon or Canon.....if that is important to you, then you might never be satisfied as a Pentax Shooter. On the other hand, if you like Pentax gear and features, the more personal relationships with other shooters from being in a sort of "Underdog" Group, and the results you get with your Pentax equipment pleases you, just relax and enjoy!

Sounds right. This and other Pentax forums do tend to be very congenial.

What is the worst thing you can imagine?

That Pentax will go under? Like Minolta? So how did that work out? Sony is not giving up the ship by any means, and someone would be there to take up the many millions of K Mount opportunities across the globe.

Makes sense. That customer base will be there regardless, and whatever happens, someone will likely step forward to serve it.

Jeff

[Rondec]

The question is what number of sales, world wide, are necessary to replace funds put into R and D for the K5 and fund the next camera. It will be less than the same needed for Canon's next big thing. That is the nice thing about being a "niche" player. You don't have to hit every ball out of the park, just need to plug along steadily.

[Rupert]

The question is what number of sales, world wide, are necessary to replace funds put into R and D for the K5 and fund the next camera. It will be less than the same needed for Canon's next big thing. That is the nice thing about being a "niche" player. You don't have to hit every ball out of the park, just need to plug along steadily.

Hard to say what R&D will bring in the future, but I do recall that SR was a very welcome surprise. As mentioned, if there are those that have to be at the top of the chain, on the cutting edge all the time, Pentax might not be the best choice. We always seem to be just a step behind at some spot or another. I look around here and at PPG and don't see how this is hampering the capture of shots as excellent as you will find from any camera of any make, but it might make some shots a little more difficult...or a little easier...all depending on what you are shooting and what you need for that particular shot.

Back on the Gloomy side...if Hoya does not keep up, at least to current standards we have come to expect, then sales will drop, a new buyer will come along, and we will be back in the race. Chicken Little always saw the sky falling...but as I look out today it is still there, sunny and blue out my office window.
E. L. Easton - English -The Story of Chicken Little
Best Regards!

[Kunzite]

Rupert, I agree and I certainly don't fault you for writing that. I also understand your message; yet I don't understand why should we even talk about stuff like that. With the current product portfolio, why would I be anything but (mildly) optimistic about their future?
Why the worst case scenario?

Our only real disagreement is about Hoya; which IMO are serious about Pentax, and quite competent too. Time will prove me right... or not

I know Samsung are very capable, but I wouldn't go as far as to believe they will necessarily succeed in everything they're doing. Until now, they failed to impress me - talking exclusively about "serious" cameras.
You, OTOH, are overestimating them - even the whole Samsung group can't "buy out Nikon, Canon, Hoya and even Sony...with pocket change". They are big, but not that big - besides, we should talk about Samsung Imaging - which may not be able to buy even Pentax.

Rondec: less than 18k units per month
Hoya would not launch a camera without being sure they'll make a profit.

[Rondec]

Rupert, I agree and I certainly don't fault you for writing that. I also understand your message; yet I don't understand why should we even talk about stuff like that. With the current product portfolio, why would I be anything but (mildly) optimistic about their future?
Why the worst case scenario?

Our only real disagreement is about Hoya; which IMO are serious about Pentax, and quite competent too. Time will prove me right... or not

I know Samsung are very capable, but I wouldn't go as far as to believe they will necessarily succeed in everything they're doing. Until now, they failed to impress me - talking exclusively about "serious" cameras.
You, OTOH, are overestimating them - even the whole Samsung group can't "buy out Nikon, Canon, Hoya and even Sony...with pocket change". They are big, but not that big - besides, we should talk about Samsung Imaging - which may not be able to buy even Pentax.

Rondec: less than 18k units per month
Hoya would not launch a camera without being sure they'll make a profit.

Definitely, although, the higher end the camera, the fewer the sales are necessary to make a profit. The 645D will do better than the kx did with far fewer sales due to a greater profit per camera body and added benefit of R and D having been spread out between it and the K7.

Pentax is a niche player. They will never out-muscle Canon or Nikon on an even playing field, but if they can be close in most areas and provide an experience that Canon/Nikon don't provide, they will do well. I expect good things from them, both now and in the future.

[Adam]

According to our adorama/bh sales stats, over the past 2 months, 3x as many K-5's were sold as K-x's, and twice as many K-x's were sold as either the K-r or K-7. I guess this shows that the K-5 is very successful compared to other pentax bodoes.

[ihasa]

3x as many k-7s as are *currently* being sold, or 3x as many as were being sold after the k-7 launch? If the latter - that's very impressive!

[RonHendriks1966]

Well I do see a lot more K-5's in use in the Netherlands then there where K-7's after a few months. So it isn't going bad. Last report of Hoya said that productionfacilities for Pentax where 100 % occupaid.

[Stefan Carey]

Nothing to worry about.

These are only US sales. Pentax is much more popular elsewhere. In the US I also wonder if there is a strong incentive for staff to push a product for which there is the best commission, as I have read that the wages and benefits for retail staff are quite low. I also read that the 645D was hardly given commercial exposure in the US, and there must be good commercial reason for this: Pentax people are not idiots. Perhaps the US has too many unfair business practices? (I remember an extremely successful Australian company in which I still have shares tried to expand into the US, but gave up as they were being kept out of the market, hinting in one of their annual reports that unfair tactics had been used)

I'd be interested to hear what others in the US think about this.

Pentax are winning wide acclaim for for the 645D, the K5 etc etc. the continue to innovate and have left the other players in their wake. (My gut tells me there will be weatherproof EVIL camera coming soon, no basis in fact of course) Their marketing efforts are improving (CR Kennedy do what I think is a decent job her with their full-page ads in Australia). I see no reason why they will not be enthused by their current success and continue to innovate and sell cameras and lenses.

[Rupert]

I can't really comment on unfair trade practices affecting Pentax.......it would be hard for anyone to say that with any certainty unless they were in the higher branches of Pentax Management. I can say that Pentax is near invisible in most US Major Markets, and it does not help their image nor the Pentax users that must rely almost solely on internet purchases. I have to assume that a very limited Pentax Budget has more to do with this than any unfair trade practices. If you want to advertise and sell in America, it is perhaps the most welcome place in the entire world at accepting your cash.

It does appear, from here, that Pentax is better recognized, accepted, and represented in other countries, and not being a long time camera enthusiast, I have no background to speculate why that is.
Best Regards

[einstrigger]

Well, in addition to what others have said, does Pentax manufacture the K-5 in the same volume as Nikon or Canon cameras? It's one thing to compare sales numbers, but if Pentax doesn't produce the K-5 in the same volume as a D7000, then I don't think you're comparing apples to apples. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they would love to get to the volume of the big two, but I don't think they're at the point.

[JeffJS]

Here is my perspective. I don't worry about it. I don't hold stock in the company other than owning product and as long as I can take photos with the cameras and lenses, that's really all I care about. Pentax has been one foot in the canyon with Canikon pushing them over the edge for as long as I've been using Pentax (and probably long before that). If someone believes they have something to lose investing in a K mount system because Pentax is Finished, they should go talk to all the Canon EOS mount dSLR people with a bag full of FD mount lenses.