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01-19-2011, 04:44 PM   #166
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I just tested my K-5 (replacement) with both version of the 1.02 firmware updates, and the FF issue under low Tungsten light is still present.

01-19-2011, 04:53 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Horst-Helmut Quote
Looked at our very first studio shots today from the beginning of Nov and no focus issues there.
Was the lighting the same when you had no issues?
As a temporary workaround, you could cheat by using a bright handheld flashlight...the model will hate it though...

Even with headshots at 50, f/11, you shouldn't notice FF issues unless they're wayyy off (like it focused on the background). Could you post a few examples? (not saying you don't have FF, but I'm just surprised it's that bad)
01-19-2011, 05:14 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Well, guys (and gals!) time to return to your bench tests : Pentax has issued a silent firmware update for the K5, the v1.02.21.10... (official one was v1.02.21.07)

Quick tests seems to show no more FF in low light, just before the AF lamp kicks in... On the other hand, I'm stuck in my bed after a surgical operation, so doing advanced tests is quite hard!!!

Ok, just tried the silent 1.02 firmware update - the v1.02.21.10... (official one was v1.02.21.07). It has NOT cured the low light FF problem on my K-5. I did exactly the same focus tests with my K20D to compare and it focussed spot on everytime.
01-19-2011, 05:25 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Seavey Quote
I just tested my K-5 (replacement) with both version of the 1.02 firmware updates, and the FF issue under low Tungsten light is still present.

QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Ok, just tried the silent 1.02 firmware update - the v1.02.21.10... (official one was v1.02.21.07). It has NOT cured the low light FF problem on my K-5. I did exactly the same focus tests with my K20D to compare and it focussed spot on everytime.
Well that sounds pretty definitive..... thanks for the testing and the post.

It would have been the height of folly for Pentax to try to bring out the solution for such a high profile problem in a silent fix (that would practically guarantee that a lot of people would miss it).

dave

01-19-2011, 05:37 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by dave kitson Quote
Well that sounds pretty definitive..... thanks for the testing and the post.

It would have been the height of folly for Pentax to try to bring out the solution for such a high profile problem in a silent fix (that would practically guarantee that a lot of people would miss it).

dave

I agree. it was worth a try though, but although I don't expect Pentax to make any official announcement about this I do expect that if a firmware fix going to come for it it'll be in a 1.0x version. 1.03 hopefully. And the sooner the better.
01-19-2011, 05:42 PM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
I agree. it was worth a try though, but although I don't expect Pentax to make any official announcement about this I do expect that if a firmware fix going to come for it it'll be in a 1.0x version. 1.03 hopefully. And the sooner the better.
How do we know that Pentax is actually working on this problem?
01-19-2011, 05:59 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Seavey Quote
How do we know that Pentax is actually working on this problem?
Faith?

Last edited by dgaies; 01-19-2011 at 06:26 PM.
01-19-2011, 06:23 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Seavey Quote
How do we know that Pentax is actually working on this problem?
I can assure you that Pentax management (in Europe at least) is urging Tokyo to solve this as soon as possible. It is a meeting topic. It definitely got full awareness from Pentax management. I also heard between the lines that engineering is working on this indeed. However, I don't realistically expect a statement from Tokyo before the issue has been solved. And the rest of the world doesn't make such statements.

With the green line syndrome (K-7) and the string of pearls at least, we got statements from Hamburg. Maybe, this is more delicate here, I don't know.

The fact that the SDM live view bug was silently fixed tells us at least that engineering goes through their list of bugs. Let's hope they find a fix for the focus bug and don't forget the two flash issues (remote and tilted).

01-19-2011, 08:59 PM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I can assure you that Pentax management (in Europe at least) is urging Tokyo to solve this as soon as possible. It is a meeting topic. It definitely got full awareness from Pentax management. I also heard between the lines that engineering is working on this indeed. However, I don't realistically expect a statement from Tokyo before the issue has been solved. And the rest of the world doesn't make such statements.

With the green line syndrome (K-7) and the string of pearls at least, we got statements from Hamburg. Maybe, this is more delicate here, I don't know.

The fact that the SDM live view bug was silently fixed tells us at least that engineering goes through their list of bugs. Let's hope they find a fix for the focus bug and don't forget the two flash issues (remote and tilted).
Falk,

You seem to have some pretty good contacts with people at Pentax, Europe at least, so I am assuming that this is very much a hot topic of technical discussion for them.
Therefore, I gather that this will be a firmware fix, but please correct me if I am wrongly making assumptions here.
It would be a blessing, so to speak, to have this resolved without having to worry about harware issues.

Of course, one cannot deny the fact that the flash issues might also be resolved in the same manner.

I am presently waiting for the third K5 body (stain issues) and I am just about getting to the end of my rope with the ongoing annoyances.

Let us hope that those "problems" will soon be things be things of the past.

Thanks again for contributing to the discussion.

Cheers.

JP
01-19-2011, 09:45 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Falk,

You seem to have some pretty good contacts with people at Pentax, Europe at least, so I am assuming that this is very much a hot topic of technical discussion for them.
Therefore, I gather that this will be a firmware fix, but please correct me if I am wrongly making assumptions here.
It would be a blessing, so to speak, to have this resolved without having to worry about harware issues.

Of course, one cannot deny the fact that the flash issues might also be resolved in the same manner.

I am presently waiting for the third K5 body (stain issues) and I am just about getting to the end of my rope with the ongoing annoyances.

Let us hope that those "problems" will soon be things be things of the past.

Thanks again for contributing to the discussion.

Cheers.

JP
We're never going to get full and frank honesty from the corporate world. The profit margin is always the most important parameter. which means faultswill be fixed ASAP but with the minimum of talk.

I'm confident the FF AF issue will be fixed before too long. but I agree the lack of official statements is frustrating.
01-19-2011, 10:03 PM   #176
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Some Nikon D7000 have similar problems?

All
If one goes to the Other Pentax forum, then looks in the Nikon SLR forum for D7000 cameras, one will find a thread titled:

AF issues: D7000 and Nikkor AF-S 35 mm f/1.8

A poster by the name of Swedish Hambern provided this comment:

QuoteQuote:
I sent mine in for this (the reseller didn't allow a exchange). And will probably get it back in a few weeks, then I will test it again. And I must say I'm really curious about this as well. Have never experienced this either before on any camera.

Might this be due to the new Autofocus-system on D7000? In that case it would effect every D7000. Maybe the best thing is to conduct some serious testing and come up with a testing procedure? Because, if every D7000 is like this, there is no point exchanging it, and if Nikon can't fix it there is no point buying D7000's at all.

If I had my D7000 right now I could construct such a test but it should be quite simple to do. Take a prime, like the 35mm 1.8, set the AF fine tune to 0 and go outside. Take some test pictures, go inside pull down the curtains and turn on some light and take some pictures. Turn on the AF fine tune and adjust until satisfied (probably around -17) Now go outside, take some more test shots.

Then post the resulting pictures here for comparison.

Jever68 wrote:

I know from many other people that they have this problem. Some facts:

•the problem is there (maybe not for everyone)

•some users reported that Nikon was able to fix backfocusing in artifical like

•NO user reported, that Nikon fixed simultaneous backfocusing in artifical light AND frontfocusing in daylight

This is why I opened this posting...

Is Nikon aware of this problem?

How can it be fixed?

voudas wrote:

i'm currently facing the "same" problem... after having many miss focused images in various conditions, mainly portraits that were oof even though i had aimed at the eyes (even without recomposing) (didnt have this problem with my d90 and i do have some keepers under extreme light conditions for ex 35mm f1.8 iso 6400 1/6" to prove that i'm quite steady), i tried to isolate the problem... what drove me crazy was that my results were inconsistent and didnt make sense... then i observed that light warmth and variation was a factor...

i'm mainly using my d7000 paired with nikon 35mm f1.8, 18-200mm and 70-300mm vr... they all are spot on at daylight with af tune turned off... but under artificial light they require around -10 af tuning... and the 35mm @f1.8 that is really demanding and easier to expose the problem due to limited dof, under more difficult light conditions (less and warmer light) needs up to -19 micro adjustment...

some more comments

-during tests i've also used 3pod (manfrotto 055xprob)

-mainly af-s with center focus point and af assist light on and stationary objects with adequate contrast features
-LV focusing is problem free
-during tests i've avoided recomposing
-i've ordered a spyderlenscal to prove my point more accurately
-elephants are not pink
Its quite fascinating that two companies, Pentax and Nikon, both bringing out a new Sony low light Sensor camera in 2010, both sought to improve WB and AF performance in a new AF system, and both, apparently, are experiencing drastic AF errors (requiring up to -17 to -19 micro adjustment) in low light with apertures larger than F4 with close proximity to the camera (perhaps within 2 meters) Its perhaps understandable that a company bringing out a new low light performing sensor camera, also would seek to upgrade the AF function of that camera for low light at the same time. But something happened that produced worse performance for at least some of the new cameras.

Best wishes,

Last edited by philbaum; 01-19-2011 at 10:10 PM.
01-19-2011, 10:13 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Its quite fascinating that two companies, Pentax and Nikon,... both sought to improve ... performance in a new AF system, and both, apparently, are experiencing drastic AF errors...
Are you suggesting that they may share the same AF system, too...?

Cheers... M
01-19-2011, 10:59 PM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
Are you suggesting that they may share the same AF system, too...?

Cheers... M
pretty funny!

Seriously, i don't think they use the same AF system. I do think that Nikon knew about what Pentax would bring out as far as K5 hardware by looking at the K7, which had advertised a new and better AWB. Perhaps Nikon took it on as a challenge to achieve the same AWB performance with the D7000 that Pentax achieved with the K7. But a year ago, perhaps noone had tumbled to the AF problem at low light. So in a sense, Pentax led Nikon astray by bringing out a potentially flawed AWB solution that contributes to the AF tungsten wavelength sensitivity issue.

When companies work close to the edge of new technology, unintended consequences can occur in complex products - just the way it is. We're extremely delighted when low light performance is achieved, but mad as heck when AF deteriorates unexpectedly. With 18 months of development time, there isn't much time for thorough testing. Fun speculation - no proof.

Last edited by philbaum; 01-19-2011 at 11:14 PM.
01-20-2011, 12:37 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Was the lighting the same when you had no issues?
As a temporary workaround, you could cheat by using a bright handheld flashlight...the model will hate it though...

Even with headshots at 50, f/11, you shouldn't notice FF issues unless they're wayyy off (like it focused on the background). Could you post a few examples? (not saying you don't have FF, but I'm just surprised it's that bad)
Same or even lower light levels. We started from 1 flash w/ softbox and built it to 5 flash setup, taking a picture with each addition or adjustment. I cannot post the pictures online because I don't have a permission from my schoolmates.

I know it shouldn't be that bad but it is, the camera is pretty much useless in anything that's in dim light, like I've said before, I have quite poor sight and can't focus manually with the small viewfinder. I had Katzeye in K200D that helped a bit but at the moment I'm not going to invest anything in Pentax gear because of this focusing issue.

I've been trying my friends D90 and 50D in school, very fast focusing (esp. 50d w/ 24-70 usm) but the ergonomics is just not there. Mant functions seem to be illogical compared to Pentax. And the comments from those users are always the same, "Why does your camera focus so slowly?"
01-20-2011, 01:40 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Horst-Helmut Quote
Our schools studio is very small, 50mm in portrait "mode" is barely wide enough for full body shots. We were shooting quite basic head and 3/4 portraits /and everything between) for our first studio course.

Looked at our very first studio shots today from the beginning of Nov and no focus issues there.

We started film course today, I'm cheating the K-5 with my Pentax ME...
Horst,
In a fast moving course like you are in, you need something reliable to get you going again. I've been reading focus complaints on the Nikon D7000 dpreview forum for an hour today, so i wouldn't advise you to keep or buy a K5 or a D7000. I recommend you go buy something that you feel comfortable with and your friends are perhaps using as well. that way you can loan or borrow gear, etc. Us amateurs have the luxury of time and patience, but you need to get on with your education. Perhaps the store that sold you the K5 will take it as an exchange or return, etc.

best wishes,
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