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01-12-2011, 04:05 AM   #46
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Hi Tommot,

No I have returned it several weeks ago after I received the second copy and had cam and lenses callibrated 2 times by Pentax Benelux. When I found the problem not linked to bad copy but general problem I took my money back. (the K7 was sold by then)
I keep the money ready for immediate buy in case K5 is "healed" . Don`t want anything else that is available now in the market. Many new cams will come till March also I believe.
So I will be on the sideline for a few months I guess. Praying for 1.03 fixing the problem

01-12-2011, 05:19 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by bjan Quote
Hi Tommot,

No I have returned it several weeks ago after I received the second copy and had cam and lenses callibrated 2 times by Pentax Benelux. When I found the problem not linked to bad copy but general problem I took my money back. (the K7 was sold by then)
I keep the money ready for immediate buy in case K5 is "healed" . Don`t want anything else that is available now in the market. Many new cams will come till March also I believe.
So I will be on the sideline for a few months I guess. Praying for 1.03 fixing the problem
ah..no worries mate

I did think about returning it..but like you my K7 was also gone..so i figured Id stick it out and see if it can be fixed..if not refer to my previous post..at least the shop and the Aussie distributor know that Im not satisfied , and will help me out if firmware 1.03 doesn't do the trick..perhaps third time will be the charm ? { firmware that is}

I wont be investing in any new lenses until its sorted though..just in case i go to another system
01-12-2011, 05:47 AM   #48
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There was this post, which would seem to mean that Pentax is aware of a problem for which a FW fix would be forthcoming. Apparently FW 1.02 did not make a difference for those having a problem in low/tungsten light. Also, it seems that there are reports of having (and not having) similar problems with the k-r. As the k-r does not have the color temperature compensating AF sensor (or so I would recall?), and as the firmware codebase is probably shared the issue and/or fix at the code level could be the same.
01-12-2011, 05:48 AM - 1 Like   #49
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"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Pentax is aware of the front-focussing issue in darker lighting-conditions and is working on a solution.
At this point however it is is not solved.
"
Pentax support contacted through pentaximaging.com.

I asked a rough estimate on the fix.

01-12-2011, 06:07 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Horst-Helmut Quote
"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Pentax is aware of the front-focussing issue in darker lighting-conditions and is working on a solution.
At this point however it is is not solved.
"
Pentax support contacted through pentaximaging.com.

I asked a rough estimate on the fix.
Thanks for sharing!
01-12-2011, 07:56 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Horst-Helmut Quote
"Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

Pentax is aware of the front-focussing issue in darker lighting-conditions and is working on a solution.
At this point however it is is not solved.
"
Pentax support contacted through pentaximaging.com.

I asked a rough estimate on the fix.
That would be great news! Apparently the flash is solved, the sensor stains solved, and this is all that remains to deliver us a World Class camera. I think there are many like me just waiting to hit the "Buy Now" button. I doubt that the FF issue would even apply to most of my shooting, but I detest the hassle of returns and the waiting game for my camera to come back home...so I will wait now instead of later.
Best Regards!
01-12-2011, 01:55 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
That would be great news! Apparently the flash is solved, the sensor stains solved, and this is all that remains to deliver us a World Class camera. I think there are many like me just waiting to hit the "Buy Now" button. I doubt that the FF issue would even apply to most of my shooting, but I detest the hassle of returns and the waiting game for my camera to come back home...so I will wait now instead of later.
Best Regards!
To be honest with you Rupert..Im considering keeping my K5 even if this issue cant be fixed.

the reason behind that statement is , there are ways to deal with it...either through extending the DOF or using LV if you must have a F2.8 or wider.

the point at which this problem raises its ugly head really are at extremes...and as such Im pretty sure that most people that might not see the issue were not at that extreme .

I for one didn't see the problem until I bought a 2.8 lens...the fastest lens I had {F4} couldn't make a shallower DOF to see the FF .

in my testing...at a 40mm DOF in Low light FF is seen..but go to a 90mm DOF and it masks any FF that is there....
so in that case either stop down one stop..or move away from the subject to increase DOF...

as you can see from my examples...while the FF is a issue that really needs addressing..its probably not a deal breaker as long as you know how to get over it..

I will weigh the pros and cons if 1.03 doesn't fix FF....but at this point, even though I will look at a possible change...its highly likely that I will keep the K5

FWI

at a recent trip to the zoo. I kept my 70-200 at F4 to F5.6..as its too soft at F2.8 for my liking..so I increased the ISO as needed when in Low light...as the K5 is quite exceptional at high ISO..I retained a sharp image even when shooting in Low tungsten light..

and if I really did need F2.8, i made sure that I was far enough away from the subject to increase DOF larger than 40mm

heres a example


FL 70MM F2.8 1/25 at ISO 3200..., the image looks well lit...but that really wasn't the case, i was about 2.5 meters away from the subject...far enough for a DOF of 140 mm

EDIT...this image was taken at about EV3 or just under


Last edited by Tommot1965; 01-13-2011 at 03:10 AM.
01-12-2011, 03:15 PM   #53
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it sounds pretty unbelievable that none at Pentax, while testing the new camera, did not do the low light tungsten test with large aperture lens. I mean, if this task was given to me, I would spend weeks to test all possible situations. I am thinking that either Pentax was aware of the problem and let the sales go, or there are some serial number that are just faulty, and nothing can be done. I bet on the second option.

01-12-2011, 07:38 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by hegedus Quote
it sounds pretty unbelievable that none at Pentax, while testing the new camera, did not do the low light tungsten test with large aperture lens. I mean, if this task was given to me, I would spend weeks to test all possible situations. I am thinking that either Pentax was aware of the problem and let the sales go, or there are some serial number that are just faulty, and nothing can be done. I bet on the second option.
My K-5 (392xxxx) does not seem to have the severe FF issue reported by others. It will front-focus in EV 1 kind of lighting (ISO 3200, 1/10s, f/2.8), but brighter than that, and it'll give accurate results.
01-13-2011, 01:27 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
the point at which this problem raises its ugly head really are at extremes...and as such Im pretty sure that most people that might not see the issue were not at that extreme .
I wouldn't call it extreme conditions. Around Ev 4 and below will show it, for instance 1/30s f2,8 at iso1600 and you are on the border, there is nothing extreme about these numbers. My camera seems to FF more the wider the focal length is though, the kit zoom is OK at 55mm but FF 1m at 17mm.
01-13-2011, 02:40 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
I wouldn't call it extreme conditions. Around Ev 4 and below will show it, for instance 1/30s f2,8 at iso1600 and you are on the border, there is nothing extreme about these numbers. My camera seems to FF more the wider the focal length is though, the kit zoom is OK at 55mm but FF 1m at 17mm.
sorry Gimbal

I may have not made myself clear..when I said extreme, I was more referring to the limited DOF that you have to pursue, to see the issue, rather than the EV..I also don't consider EV4 extreme,

I do however call focusing 1 meter away from the subject at 50mm F2.8 , so the DOF only extended for 40mm. extreme , whereas if you take a 500mm step back and by doing so extend the DOF to 100mm you wont see FF. or at least I cant...as long as the DOF is greater than 70mm...I cant see the issue...go to 40mm. then yes I do see it.

As I said ...once you know the work around..you can still use the K5 in low light..you just have to use your head a bit

Ive made up my mind to keep mine, i will however return for a new body, it if its proven to be a hardware issue,
01-13-2011, 03:05 AM   #57
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I tried the K-5 [fw 1.02] with the two faster AF lenses I have (Tamron 50mm 17-50 1:2.8 and Pentax DFA 100mm 1:2.8) with tungsten light / whitish LED bicycle light reflected off a white ceiling in a dark room for ~3EV (1s f=2.8 ISO=100) it seems that with tungsten there is FF (the difference in focus plane is ~1 cm @50cm). The relevance of this to most practical conditions is questionable; the thing is that the light source consistently makes a difference in a similar fashion that Falk has reported earlier.
01-13-2011, 04:27 AM - 2 Likes   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
with tungsten there is FF (the difference in focus plane is ~1 cm @50cm). The relevance of this to most practical conditions is questionable;
Dear Jolepp , In case a person uses the camera only in daylight the relevance is not there at all. It would be the same though to have the following situation:

You buy a JEEP but with this JEEP you can only drive on tarmac. In case you go offroad your car will get stuck !!!!!!!
How many people do you think will buy this JEEP ? For most of the consumers of JEEPS these days the off road capabilities are not very relevant but you want to KNOW that it can take you throug terain in case it is needed.
A K5 owner wants to be sure that in case he or she takes a pic under artificial light with wide apertures that the focus is correct as the camera is valued as a "king of the dark" in APSC size by us photographers . Wide apertures and low light go together very well as you know.
I don`t know why your postings are all directed towards "softening" the issue and not in forcing PENTAX to act towards an UNACCEPTABLE issue. Maybe you should put your tamron 17-55 once more on your K5 at 2.8 aperture and shoot a bit in your living room or wherever the artificial light is on. I bet with you that with this aperture hardly any of your pics are in focus . (having the settings unchanged compared to proper daylight shooting)

I want to ask you kindly you being a Moderator to help us shooters that experience high relevance with the issue to bring it towards PENTAX attention rather than trying to smooth the matter.
01-13-2011, 06:56 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by bjan Quote
...
I want to ask you kindly you being a Moderator to help us shooters that experience high relevance with the issue to bring it towards PENTAX attention rather than trying to smooth the matter.
My main application for the K-5 and the Tamron this time of year, at least, tends to be low light indoor people snaps (mostly tungsten / similar color temperature) so I'm waiting for a resolution (FW 1.03?) quite eagerly myself. I was merely trying to avoid concluding more than my simple experiment can warrant; in particular the color temperature of the reflected led light might not be very relevant to any real life conditions. However, the experiment would seem to indicate that low light AF operation with my K-5 and lenses depends on the color temperature of the light source (then again the color temperature of the led light is not actually known, the spectrum of light is not continuous, the electronics of the lamp might modulate the light intensity in a way that might be relevant, etc.). The crucial thing is that others can do a similar experiment and maybe report the results here; in fact I was making use of Falk's idea myself. This might further (*) convince Pentax that there is a problem, and might even help them to find a solution :-).

(*) Some of the posts in the Forum would fortunately seem to indicate that they are aware of this and, in fact, working on it.
01-13-2011, 07:44 AM   #60
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The Jeep comparison by Bjan was a reasonable example of expecting a product to perform to specifications, even if you seldom require a given operation. Wanting to "get what you paid for" is never an unreasonable request, with any product, and when we accept less, we will begin to get less every time. If this FF issue is something Pentax thinks buyers should "live with" then they should have made it a part of their announced specifications and let each buyer decide the significance in their usage.

I have about 100K miles on my 14 year old Jeep, still in near perfect condition, not a scratch on it, and I treat it like a baby. Of those 100K miles less than a couple of hundred have been Off Road, but in those instances I expected it to perform flawlessly....and it did with flying colors!
Best Regards!

I special ordered this in 1997 when it was announced with the new suspension and upgrades throughout. Got it for Mrs Rupert, she thought it was "cute"...... Fully loaded with every option, and a fine machine, but I knew she wouldn't like the small size for long....and then I would get it! Sure enough, in less than a year she wanted a Cherokee, and I took the Wrangler! I know Mrs Rupert well!
Being a new Model it had a couple of minor problems, they were very few (two) and instantly resolved...been thrilled with it ever since! Been just as happy with my K20D, and not even one problem with it........I don't think I expect too much, or anyone else that is waiting for a fix.
Best Regards!
My Baby Jeep
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