Relevant news re malfunctioning AF under artificial light

Gimbal · 02-07-2011, 01:41 AM

Have you tried more then one lens?

Christine Tham · 02-07-2011, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Have you tried more then one lens?

Again, if you have read my posts, you will find I have tried DA 70mm and FA 43mm Limited. I can't find any instance of FF on the DA 70mm, and the photo I posted was taken on the DA 70mm.

I haven't tried other lenses, but the 43mm and the 70mm are the two that I use more than 90% of the time - the other lenses I use very rarely.

Tommot1965 · 02-07-2011, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

Here's a "real life" shot under dim indoor lighting - no I am not going to quote EV number but it is ISO3200 so that gives an indication how dark it is.

As can be seen - the face is in focus, but the hands in front aren't.

I'm glad my K-5 doesn't have an FF issue, but in reality even if it did it wouldn't have mattered in a situation like this, because the lens needed to be stopped down to bring the whole face into focus.

sorry Christine...but that image is worthless as a example unless we can determine the relevant EV ...please post the Fstop and shutter speed

Christine Tham · 02-07-2011, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by Tommot1965

sorry Christine...but that image is worthless as a example unless we can determine the relevant EV ...please post the Fstop and shutter speed

LOL!

Good one!

Oh yeah, also worthless because I was not able to determine the colour temperature of the indoor light, and made sure it was the right kind of tungsten!!!

Also, I am an owner, so clearly I am too biased since I must really love my camera! Truly factual posts can only be made in this thread by those who have never experienced the camera, as Pentax really needs to acknowledge (with a public apology - full page ads on all major newspapers every day for one month) and fix all the documented issues before the camera is even worth considering!

blende8 · 02-07-2011, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

So basically my K-5 is no worse than 2 other cameras. Actually, better, since the K-5 is able to lock focus in Live View below EV 1.

So then be happy.
But most of us are having problems in low light and this is not a user problem, but a camera problem, as has been shown again and again.
In the above example my K20 is focussing correctly always, whereas the K5 wasn't able to do this. This has been confirmed by other users as well.

Tommot1965 · 02-07-2011, 02:59 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

LOL!

Good one!

Oh yeah, also worthless because I was not able to determine the colour temperature of the indoor light, and made sure it was the right kind of tungsten!!!

Also, I am an owner, so clearly I am too biased since I must really love my camera! Truly factual posts can only be made in this thread by those who have never experienced the camera, as Pentax really needs to acknowledge (with a public apology - full page ads on all major newspapers every day for one month) and fix all the documented issues before the camera is even worth considering!

Hmm

dont take it the wrong way...Im more than happy if your a K5 owner without the FF issue, but if you'd like to contribute to a thread that subject is the FF under low light..and post a example..please give us the details... that's all I ask..you have the wrong of the stick if you are interpreting my post as dismissive of your findings..so far Ive found your posts to be well thought out...but not the one above

perhaps its the noun "worthless" ...sorry if that's put you out..perhaps Inconclusive would be better ?

its been my experience so far that the FF will rear its head at EV 4 ..at least in My K5..

Christine Tham · 02-07-2011, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by blende8

So then be happy.
But most of us are having problems in low light and this is not a user problem, but a camera problem, as has been shown again and again.
In the above example my K20 is focussing correctly always, whereas the K5 wasn't able to do this. This has been confirmed by other users as well.

I don't think I have ever implied that no K-5 has the problem.

Since you suggested that I may have not read all the posts in this thread, can I perhaps suggest you may not have read the post where I said this?

Originally posted by Christine Tham:

So my qualified statement is - if a K-5 performs at roughly the same level as my K-5, then I don't believe a "fix" is required or necessary. However, I cannot speak for all K-5 units out there.

But I am not convinced all the reported "problems" are in fact real problems. I'm certainly not suggesting that the issue you have is user error, but maybe you have an excellent K20D and a marginal K-5?

If it is the case that some units have a more noticeable problem and others don't, then I would suggest perhaps the units have exhibit the problem should be sent back to Pentax for service. Given that we know there are units that appear to function adequately then the problem may be hardware/alignment rather than software and hence no point waiting for a firmware fix.

Or am I being naive?

Tommot1965 · 02-07-2011, 03:16 AM

heres my testing so far , please refer to post 36

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/128562-relevant-news-re-...ml#post1337026

refer to post 52

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/129738-k-5-user-auto-foc...results-4.html

again Im not here to burn down the K5..in fact quite the opposite ......im very interested to see examples of non FF K5...but to do so, the FF test needs to be confirmed and posted ..or example pictures need the full EXIF..
otherwise your belief that you have a non FF K5 will be inconclusive

Christine Tham · 02-07-2011, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by Tommot1965

dont take it the wrong way...Im more than happy if your a K5 owner without the FF issue, but if you'd like to contribute to a thread that subject is the FF under low light..and post a example..please give us the details... that's all I ask..you have the wrong of the stick if you are interpreting my post as dismissive of your findings..so far Ive found your posts to be well thought out...but not the one above

Sorry, Tommot, I thought you were making a joke, didn't realise you were actually serious in asking for details?

I'm not sure you got the point of my post - I was trying to hint that there is not much point in providing details since that was a photo taken with the lens stopped down (to f5.6 actually) so even if there was an issue it would not show up.

The point was under normal situations a minor FF problem should not manifest itself, since one would normally stop down the lens for close objects, and it's not an issue for distant objects.

I was trying to make a joke about not quoting EV because earlier some poster was insisting I must supply EV numbers.

Tommot1965 · 02-07-2011, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

Sorry, Tommot, I thought you were making a joke, didn't realise you were actually serious in asking for details?

I'm not sure you got the point of my post - I was trying to hint that there is not much point in providing details since that was a photo taken with the lens stopped down (to f5.6 actually) so even if there was an issue it would be show up.

The point was under normal situations a minor FF problem should not manifest itself, since one would normally stop down the lens for close objects, and it's not an issue for distant objects.

I was trying to make a joke about not quoting EV because earlier some poster was insisting I must supply EV numbers.

Ok

sorry I thought your posted example was to confirm that the FF is not present in your K5.....I agree that the real world pictures taken with a knowledge of the K5 and DOF will not show FF ..torture tests like the examples Ive posted , will however show it...the whole K5 FF issue has been blown out of all proportion...so Im a believer...not a Domesday merchant

, Ive still done the FF test to prove that . at least My k5 is missing focus by MM not meters..and work around are working..please refer to my post to Eric..in this thread

blende8 · 02-07-2011, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

maybe you have an excellent K20D and a marginal K-5?

I cannot rule this out 100% but it is improbable.
On a German forum about 100 users were able to reproduce the error.
A dealer on this forum said, he tested many copies and all showed the problem.

Christine Tham · 02-07-2011, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Tommot1965

again Im not here to burn down the K5..in fact quite the opposite ......im very interested to see examples of non FF K5...but to do so, the FF test needs to be confirmed and posted ..or example pictures need the full EXIF..
otherwise your belief that you have a non FF K5 will be inconclusive

Sorry, Tommot, I remember you were asking for pictures earlier, but I have already deleted the images.

I could recreate the tests, but frankly I have already satisfied myself. I prefer to move on and actually start using the camera rather than do tests. I'm not interested to proving anything to anyone - only whether I need to return the camera that I have just purchased within the store's 45 day return guarantee period.

I'm sorry if that disappoints you.

Tommot1965 · 02-07-2011, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

Sorry, Tommot, I thought you were making a joke, didn't realise you were actually serious in asking for details?

I'm not sure you got the point of my post - I was trying to hint that there is not much point in providing details since that was a photo taken with the lens stopped down (to f5.6 actually) so even if there was an issue it would not show up.

The point was under normal situations a minor FF problem should not manifest itself, since one would normally stop down the lens for close objects, and it's not an issue for distant objects.

I was trying to make a joke about not quoting EV because earlier some poster was insisting I must supply EV numbers.

yes I see now, Ive just reread your post with the picture of the young boy..that will pay me for not reading the posts thoroughly

Tommot1965 · 02-07-2011, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Christine Tham

Sorry, Tommot, I remember you were asking for pictures earlier, but I have already deleted the images.

I could recreate the tests, but frankly I have already satisfied myself. I prefer to move on and actually start using the camera rather than do tests. I'm not interested to proving anything to anyone - only whether I need to return the camera that I have just purchased within the store's 45 day return guarantee period.

I'm sorry if that disappoints you.

no not disappointed at all..Im glad your not being weighed down with this FF issue.... and that you are enjoying the K5

Christine Tham · 02-07-2011, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by blende8

I cannot rule this out 100% but it is improbable.
On a German forum about 100 users were able to reproduce the error.
A dealer on this forum said, he tested many copies and all showed the problem.

I'm still not sure I understand the issue - why can't you and these 100 users and the dealer return all those cameras to Pentax for servicing/repair/exchange if there is a problem?

My objective in testing my camera was to figure out whether I had a problem, which would then determine whether I needed to return/exchange the camera within the 45 day period.

Are you not able to send the camera to Pentax for inspection?

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02-07-2011, 01:41 AM	#391
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Have you tried more then one lens?

02-07-2011, 01:47 AM	#392
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Gimbal Have you tried more then one lens? Again, if you have read my posts, you will find I have tried DA 70mm and FA 43mm Limited. I can't find any instance of FF on the DA 70mm, and the photo I posted was taken on the DA 70mm. I haven't tried other lenses, but the 43mm and the 70mm are the two that I use more than 90% of the time - the other lenses I use very rarely.

02-07-2011, 01:53 AM	#393
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	Originally posted by Christine Tham Here's a "real life" shot under dim indoor lighting - no I am not going to quote EV number but it is ISO3200 so that gives an indication how dark it is. As can be seen - the face is in focus, but the hands in front aren't. I'm glad my K-5 doesn't have an FF issue, but in reality even if it did it wouldn't have mattered in a situation like this, because the lens needed to be stopped down to bring the whole face into focus. sorry Christine...but that image is worthless as a example unless we can determine the relevant EV ...please post the Fstop and shutter speed

02-07-2011, 02:31 AM	#394
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Tommot1965 sorry Christine...but that image is worthless as a example unless we can determine the relevant EV ...please post the Fstop and shutter speed LOL! Good one! Oh yeah, also worthless because I was not able to determine the colour temperature of the indoor light, and made sure it was the right kind of tungsten!!! Also, I am an owner, so clearly I am too biased since I must really love my camera! Truly factual posts can only be made in this thread by those who have never experienced the camera, as Pentax really needs to acknowledge (with a public apology - full page ads on all major newspapers every day for one month) and fix all the documented issues before the camera is even worth considering!

02-07-2011, 02:37 AM	#395
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by Christine Tham So basically my K-5 is no worse than 2 other cameras. Actually, better, since the K-5 is able to lock focus in Live View below EV 1. So then be happy. But most of us are having problems in low light and this is not a user problem, but a camera problem, as has been shown again and again. In the above example my K20 is focussing correctly always, whereas the K5 wasn't able to do this. This has been confirmed by other users as well.

02-07-2011, 02:59 AM	#396
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	Originally posted by Christine Tham LOL! Good one! Oh yeah, also worthless because I was not able to determine the colour temperature of the indoor light, and made sure it was the right kind of tungsten!!! Also, I am an owner, so clearly I am too biased since I must really love my camera! Truly factual posts can only be made in this thread by those who have never experienced the camera, as Pentax really needs to acknowledge (with a public apology - full page ads on all major newspapers every day for one month) and fix all the documented issues before the camera is even worth considering! Hmm dont take it the wrong way...Im more than happy if your a K5 owner without the FF issue, but if you'd like to contribute to a thread that subject is the FF under low light..and post a example..please give us the details... that's all I ask..you have the wrong of the stick if you are interpreting my post as dismissive of your findings..so far Ive found your posts to be well thought out...but not the one above perhaps its the noun "worthless" ...sorry if that's put you out..perhaps Inconclusive would be better ? its been my experience so far that the FF will rear its head at EV 4 ..at least in My K5..

02-07-2011, 03:08 AM	#397
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by blende8 So then be happy. But most of us are having problems in low light and this is not a user problem, but a camera problem, as has been shown again and again. In the above example my K20 is focussing correctly always, whereas the K5 wasn't able to do this. This has been confirmed by other users as well. I don't think I have ever implied that no K-5 has the problem. Since you suggested that I may have not read all the posts in this thread, can I perhaps suggest you may not have read the post where I said this? Originally posted by Christine Tham: So my qualified statement is - if a K-5 performs at roughly the same level as my K-5, then I don't believe a "fix" is required or necessary. However, I cannot speak for all K-5 units out there. But I am not convinced all the reported "problems" are in fact real problems. I'm certainly not suggesting that the issue you have is user error, but maybe you have an excellent K20D and a marginal K-5? If it is the case that some units have a more noticeable problem and others don't, then I would suggest perhaps the units have exhibit the problem should be sent back to Pentax for service. Given that we know there are units that appear to function adequately then the problem may be hardware/alignment rather than software and hence no point waiting for a firmware fix. Or am I being naive?

02-07-2011, 03:16 AM	#398
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	heres my testing so far , please refer to post 36 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/128562-relevant-news-re-...ml#post1337026 refer to post 52 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/129738-k-5-user-auto-foc...results-4.html again Im not here to burn down the K5..in fact quite the opposite ......im very interested to see examples of non FF K5...but to do so, the FF test needs to be confirmed and posted ..or example pictures need the full EXIF.. otherwise your belief that you have a non FF K5 will be inconclusive

02-07-2011, 03:16 AM	#399
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Tommot1965 dont take it the wrong way...Im more than happy if your a K5 owner without the FF issue, but if you'd like to contribute to a thread that subject is the FF under low light..and post a example..please give us the details... that's all I ask..you have the wrong of the stick if you are interpreting my post as dismissive of your findings..so far Ive found your posts to be well thought out...but not the one above Sorry, Tommot, I thought you were making a joke, didn't realise you were actually serious in asking for details? I'm not sure you got the point of my post - I was trying to hint that there is not much point in providing details since that was a photo taken with the lens stopped down (to f5.6 actually) so even if there was an issue it would not show up. The point was under normal situations a minor FF problem should not manifest itself, since one would normally stop down the lens for close objects, and it's not an issue for distant objects. I was trying to make a joke about not quoting EV because earlier some poster was insisting I must supply EV numbers.

02-07-2011, 03:21 AM	#400
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	Originally posted by Christine Tham Sorry, Tommot, I thought you were making a joke, didn't realise you were actually serious in asking for details? I'm not sure you got the point of my post - I was trying to hint that there is not much point in providing details since that was a photo taken with the lens stopped down (to f5.6 actually) so even if there was an issue it would be show up. The point was under normal situations a minor FF problem should not manifest itself, since one would normally stop down the lens for close objects, and it's not an issue for distant objects. I was trying to make a joke about not quoting EV because earlier some poster was insisting I must supply EV numbers. Ok sorry I thought your posted example was to confirm that the FF is not present in your K5.....I agree that the real world pictures taken with a knowledge of the K5 and DOF will not show FF ..torture tests like the examples Ive posted , will however show it...the whole K5 FF issue has been blown out of all proportion...so Im a believer...not a Domesday merchant , Ive still done the FF test to prove that . at least My k5 is missing focus by MM not meters..and work around are working..please refer to my post to Eric..in this thread

02-07-2011, 03:24 AM	#401
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by Christine Tham maybe you have an excellent K20D and a marginal K-5? I cannot rule this out 100% but it is improbable. On a German forum about 100 users were able to reproduce the error. A dealer on this forum said, he tested many copies and all showed the problem.

02-07-2011, 03:24 AM	#402
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by Tommot1965 again Im not here to burn down the K5..in fact quite the opposite ......im very interested to see examples of non FF K5...but to do so, the FF test needs to be confirmed and posted ..or example pictures need the full EXIF.. otherwise your belief that you have a non FF K5 will be inconclusive Sorry, Tommot, I remember you were asking for pictures earlier, but I have already deleted the images. I could recreate the tests, but frankly I have already satisfied myself. I prefer to move on and actually start using the camera rather than do tests. I'm not interested to proving anything to anyone - only whether I need to return the camera that I have just purchased within the store's 45 day return guarantee period. I'm sorry if that disappoints you.

02-07-2011, 03:26 AM	#403
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	Originally posted by Christine Tham Sorry, Tommot, I thought you were making a joke, didn't realise you were actually serious in asking for details? I'm not sure you got the point of my post - I was trying to hint that there is not much point in providing details since that was a photo taken with the lens stopped down (to f5.6 actually) so even if there was an issue it would not show up. The point was under normal situations a minor FF problem should not manifest itself, since one would normally stop down the lens for close objects, and it's not an issue for distant objects. I was trying to make a joke about not quoting EV because earlier some poster was insisting I must supply EV numbers. yes I see now, Ive just reread your post with the picture of the young boy..that will pay me for not reading the posts thoroughly

02-07-2011, 03:29 AM	#404
Tommot1965 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Perth Western Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,026	Originally posted by Christine Tham Sorry, Tommot, I remember you were asking for pictures earlier, but I have already deleted the images. I could recreate the tests, but frankly I have already satisfied myself. I prefer to move on and actually start using the camera rather than do tests. I'm not interested to proving anything to anyone - only whether I need to return the camera that I have just purchased within the store's 45 day return guarantee period. I'm sorry if that disappoints you. no not disappointed at all..Im glad your not being weighed down with this FF issue.... and that you are enjoying the K5

02-07-2011, 03:38 AM	#405
Christine Tham Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,269	Originally posted by blende8 I cannot rule this out 100% but it is improbable. On a German forum about 100 users were able to reproduce the error. A dealer on this forum said, he tested many copies and all showed the problem. I'm still not sure I understand the issue - why can't you and these 100 users and the dealer return all those cameras to Pentax for servicing/repair/exchange if there is a problem? My objective in testing my camera was to figure out whether I had a problem, which would then determine whether I needed to return/exchange the camera within the 45 day period. Are you not able to send the camera to Pentax for inspection?