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01-24-2011, 08:41 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Just noticed this last night. I've taken 100s of photos with the lenses stopped down all the way, against sky, with blank walls in the background, never saw it before.
I am reading about this scenario more and more often: new cameras tested, passed clean, then problem suddenly appears and gets noticed.

Is it possible the problem is not some initial manufacturing defect (like defective glass in LPF), but in fact develops with use? (New cameras with spots could develop it during final testing, thus again with use.)

Canon has similar problem with EOS-1D Mark III:
Canon Professional Network - EOS oil spots

The interesting part is "The oil is used inside the mirror box to lubricate some of the camera's moving parts. If the oil is applied too liberally when the camera is manufactured, it can become scattered onto the surface of the LPF through normal camera operation."

Could someone inspect mirror box in K-5 (including lifting the mirror) and check if there are any parts lubricated "too liberally" (I like their definition)?

It looks to me that even an in-store inspection may not guarantee you'll get a spotless camera. Pentax should definitely issue a statement about this. It would be good to know if they have identified the problem and took care of it. If the root cause is the same as with Canon EOS-1D, that would mean any K-5 could develop the problem at any point in time.


Last edited by Ivan Glisin; 01-24-2011 at 09:01 AM.
01-24-2011, 11:33 AM   #32
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I don't know about oil from the mechanism. It seems like a splatter from that would be 1, closer to the edges and 2, cleanable. Pentax is replacing these cameras as bad sensor cameras under warranty. Just about every other sample I've seen, this stain has been in the center and in some cases almost identical sample to sample. I can't swear it wasn't there on my camera before.

Index of /Photos/50mmShootout

This is a test (if you will) I did with all of my 50ish mm lenses. In each directory, the last file has the lens completely stopped down. If the stain shows, I would be interested in seeing it because I don't on my screen. Those were among the first photos I took with the camera, in early November.

For reference, This is an f22 shot of my computer screen with the stain circled.

http://www.rolleiman.com/Photos/50mmShootout/K5JS3244.JPG

01-25-2011, 02:31 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
In each directory, the last file has the lens completely stopped down. If the stain shows, I would be interested in seeing it because I don't on my screen.
It's not there. I suspect the problem develops incrementally with use.

Could you find some older images at small apertures and relatively clean background with image numbers around 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500, 3000 and inspect them?

Here is the theory I would like to verify: something in the mirror box throws a small oil drop (or a few drops) each time picture is taken. When that happens and if a drop is large enough you get a visible spot on the LP filter. With time more and more spots appear until the problem gets noticed. Also, since oil gets "fired" from the same mechanical part each time, it could explain why all drops remain clustered. Different size could be attributed to camera position, temperature (viscosity changes), or less and less oil in the mechanism (which means spots should get smaller and smaller, perhaps even within one shooting session).

Makes sense?
01-25-2011, 06:33 AM   #34
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someone at dpreview observed that sttains appear after he uses live view for 2-3 minutes. He tried it with 2 bodies. So, may be stains appear when the sensor is heated.

01-25-2011, 07:59 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by dexmus Quote
someone at dpreview observed that sttains appear after he uses live view for 2-3 minutes. He tried it with 2 bodies. So, may be stains appear when the sensor is heated.
I suspect that heat may make it worse, but mine had staines before I used live view.
01-25-2011, 09:05 AM   #36
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See my post here for a picture with stains from before and after using film mode.
01-25-2011, 10:29 AM   #37
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http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5161/5265493794_32fb552ee7_o.jpg

This, photo number 1782, is the first time I ever Thought something was going on. As it happens, this is a wide open shot (FA77) and it was explained to me at the time that it may be Dust on the lens showing up with the back lighting of the tree lights. I don't believe my lens is that dusty and haven't had it out of the bag since but I accepted that explanation at the time.. Maybe wishful thinking on my part. I cannot find similar with photos of that type taken with other lenses. (I was doing a different lens each day for the 12 days of Christmas game).

The photo of the guitar that I show was in fact done with live view and it's the first time I can find where there is anything remotely resembling 'the stain'. It's entirely possible it's been there all along, or just turned up. The types of photos I typically take, it might not have ever shown at all (see my flickr account linked on the banners in my sig). That is, since it's in the center, it would never show on a photo of my black dog, my dark guitars, my dark trains, etc. People pics are typically taken at around f5.6-f8 or wider so it isn't likely to have shown there either.

The photo of the Computer screen I give however was taken to demonstrate something else. In that case, the camera had only been on a few seconds and live view was not used (to answer the question about live view heating the sensor).

What you suggest about the oil splattering, over time, would make sense to me if it weren't for the fact that reports of these stains have been turning up almost since day one of the K5. My eyes aren't good enough to really see anything going on inside the mirror box. I stated earlier, that if it Were oil, I would think it could be cleaned rather than replacing the camera. I suppose it's possible that the oil, if that's the case, contaminates the AA filter to the point where it cannot be cleaned without destroying it. At the very worse, I would think a Wet clean would Smear the oil. In that case, if self done, we would be stuck paying for our own replacements. Pentax will not warranty cameras with such work done on them.

I'm willing to accept that the stains may get progressively worse with use but I'm still on the side of believing it's on the Sensor side of the AA filter. I may be proven wrong and it's an interesting discussion but at this point, I just want a clean camera. I don't want to have to avoid stopping down or having to clone that much out of my photos. That stain is too dense for me to make good use of cloning it out. I didn't go looking for this, it just turned up so I'm not a member of 'the I can't be happy with my camera club' either.

01-25-2011, 04:30 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan Glisin Quote
Is it possible the problem is not some initial manufacturing defect (like defective glass in LPF), but in fact develops with use? (New cameras with spots could develop it during final testing, thus again with use.)
Holy crap, this has only been mentioned about a million times, most notably in this very thread. Did you even read this thread?

01-25-2011, 06:37 PM   #39
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Jeff the only problem I have with this shot is that there seem to be the same three "pearls" in almost the same configuration in all of the light colored specular highlights and even in some of the darker ones. And they are scattered throughout the shot. I'm not saying that the SOP doesn't develop over time, all I'm saying is I don't thing this is an example of "early onset". If the "pearls" were only in the center, then I'd say you have a point, but that's not the case here.

NaCl(don't know what they are but I don't think they are early SOP)H2O
01-25-2011, 07:08 PM   #40
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-Jan 4: Sent stained K-5 to Pentax via pre-paid UPS Ground. Serial number: 3823981
-Jan 7: Received confirmation from UPS that Pentax service center received K-5.
-Jan 25 (today): Package received from UPS Ground. Brand new K-5, full package (including all accessories), serial number: 398xxxx
-Total turnaround time, from ship to return: exactly 3 weeks.

Initial testing: One relatively large dust mote on sensor. Promptly removed. One green hot pixel. Pixel mapped out.
No stains revealed in initial testing. Will keep a close eye to see if some develop over time (though I'm not particularly worried because Pentax seems to have discovered and eliminated the source).
AF testing at EV 0-1 at 100mm, f/2.8, near macro focus distance (just over 1 ft). Minor backfocus (about 1-2mm behind target). No FF issues to report.

No correspondance from Pentax the entire time (except for the initial service request and Pentax paid shipping label of course). Apparently this is standard procedure for warranty service.

Last edited by Cannikin; 01-26-2011 at 09:58 AM.
01-25-2011, 10:16 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
No correspondance from Pentax the entire time (except for the initial service request and Pentax paid shipping label of course). Apparently this is standard procedure for warranty service.
Yep, that's the extra touch on their first-class after-sales service package. First you blindly send out your $1600 camera to them, then you hope it got there, then you get surprised if/when you receive something back (could be 2 to 4 weeks or more). At no point do they make an effort to let you know what's going on, even though they have:

- your phone number
- your email address

They even go to the trouble of typing all that stuff into their system.

Of course, you can always call CRIS and find out what's going on for yourself. I've always gotten very quick and courteous answers to all my questions from CRIS. And you can even get a an order # and customer # that you can use to check the status of the repair/replacement online, complete with tracking number when they send it out. But I still think they could at least send you an automated email with all that info.
01-25-2011, 10:44 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
Jeff the only problem I have with this shot is that there seem to be the same three "pearls" in almost the same configuration in all of the light colored specular highlights and even in some of the darker ones. And they are scattered throughout the shot. I'm not saying that the SOP doesn't develop over time, all I'm saying is I don't thing this is an example of "early onset". If the "pearls" were only in the center, then I'd say you have a point, but that's not the case here.

NaCl(don't know what they are but I don't think they are early SOP)H2O
I didn't say that was an early occurrence of it. I said that's the first time I Thought I might have a problem. I note that shot was taken wide open. Even now, I have to stop the lens all the way down, Just to see it. I've verified it's presence with Several lenses. The fact is, I don't know exactly when it first occurred. Shooting stopped down all the way isn't my typical style. The only reason I did with the Guitar shot was that I was using a Manual lens at close range and wanted to use the built in flash. As we all know, in that situation, it fires at full power so the lens had to be stopped down to keep from blowing out the photo. All I know for certain is it is there Now. In the case of the tree lights photo, it's entirely possible that it IS dust, multiplied about, with the different light sources.

01-26-2011, 07:00 AM   #43
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I just checked my UPS tracking number and I sent the K5 out on 01/20/11 and was told it should take 4-5 days to get to AZ depending on the weather. We have had some storms so I have to assume that is what slowed down it's arrival to AZ.

As of this morning it indicates the following:

Scheduled Delivery Updated To:
Thursday, 01/27/2011, By End of Day

that would be 7 days from here to there.

I will give it until Monday and then follow up with a call or CHAT again to see if I can get an update.

I really miss my K5

I enjoyed hearing other stories here of quick turn around and hope I will be able to say the same.
01-26-2011, 09:08 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by vievetrick Quote
I just checked my UPS tracking number and I sent the K5 out on 01/20/11 and was told it should take 4-5 days to get to AZ depending on the weather. We have had some storms so I have to assume that is what slowed down it's arrival to AZ.

As of this morning it indicates the following:

Scheduled Delivery Updated To:
Thursday, 01/27/2011, By End of Day

that would be 7 days from here to there.

I will give it until Monday and then follow up with a call or CHAT again to see if I can get an update.

I really miss my K5

I enjoyed hearing other stories here of quick turn around and hope I will be able to say the same.
Mine arrived on 1-20-11, 7 days after dropping it off at UPS, but there was a weekend and holiday in those 7 days. When you have confirmation it has arrived, send C.R.I.S. an email. They will reply with your Work Order Number and Customer Number, which you can use to monitor the progress. They told me to expect a 2 to 4 week turn around from the date of arrival.
01-26-2011, 01:53 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by vievetrick Quote
I just checked my UPS tracking number and I sent the K5 out on 01/20/11 and was told it should take 4-5 days to get to AZ depending on the weather. We have had some storms so I have to assume that is what slowed down it's arrival to AZ.

As of this morning it indicates the following:

Scheduled Delivery Updated To:
Thursday, 01/27/2011, By End of Day

that would be 7 days from here to there.
Hey brother, I feel your pain. Mine is supposed to get there tomorrow too. I'm hoping mine gets off the truck before yours
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