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01-23-2011, 06:10 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nomad Quote
Well,

I will continue to "whine" as Pentax has my $1500 and I don't have a camera!!! You go ahead and keep cheerleading for a company that sold you a defective product....I for one and very unhappy with this crap business practice.

I am also unhappy with the entire industry for not standardizing lens mounts but that is a gripe for another day.
Well vent your frustration at the folks at Pentax USA.
Obviously given your geographic location there will be obvious constraints when they can turnaround your K-5 but if you can't cut them a little slack and wanna vent some more, please go ahead. You may feel it is defective but I think the K-5 is a terrific camera.


Last edited by creampuff; 01-23-2011 at 06:16 PM.
01-23-2011, 06:45 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by infoomatic Quote
I use AF adjustment and it works. So as soon as I take picturs in tungsten light I enable this feature and the AF works fine ;-)
Yes I've tried remembering a second AF adjustment for low light, but for most of my lenses the +/- 10 isn't enough.

For example in normal light my Sigma 30nn/1.4 requires a setting of +4. in low light I've guesstimated it would need something like -15 to compensate for FF.

The other problem is the amount of FF depends upon the light level.

But yes if you can use AF compensation settings asa temporary workaround until pentax fix the problem then cool.
01-23-2011, 07:56 PM   #33
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OP

mate just buy a damned K5 if you really want one..the FF issues is the biggest over exaggeration ever posted....the reality is , you have to push the K5 to such limits to see the FF..that you'd never shoot like that in the first place...

you need to limit the DOF so much..that why in the hell would anyone do it....it took two months for the issue to be found....I even posted in the closed thread that mine didn't have it....because my lens was ony F4 and I was taking the shot from 2 metres away...rather than the 1 metre with F2.8 that will show the FF.....crikey....

now that ive done the torture test...mine does show FF....but Id never shoot in those circumstances anyway. and I doubt anyone here would

theres been two blokes that have posted a FF of 700mm....Id question those results..the rest of us FF by about 10mm....something a adequate DOF will mask....


having said all that...of course Im interested in seeing it fixed...just for those very odd times you'd need it
01-23-2011, 08:21 PM   #34
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You won't see it fixed if you keep denying that it exists and is a serious problem for many shooters. If you shoot weddings and indoor events, this could be a deal killer, as many have noted. I would like to see more pushing for a repair than I would more lulling into acceptance of a sub standard camera. We saw this with SDM lenses....how did that work out? To this day most buyers are gun shy of SDM lenses, and just how has that benefited users or Pentax? Quality Control will only be as good as users require, and if they don't require a camera to meet the Mfg Specifications, you can bet it won't.
Regards

01-23-2011, 08:21 PM   #35
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mate just buy a damned K5 if you really want one..the FF issues is the biggest over exaggeration ever posted....the reality is , you have to push the K5 to such limits to see the FF..that you'd never shoot like that in the first place...

you need to limit the DOF so much..that why in the hell would anyone do it....it took two months for the issue to be found....I even posted in the closed thread that mine didn't have it....because my lens was ony F4 and I was taking the shot from 2 metres away...rather than the 1 metre with F2.8 that will show the FF.....crikey....

now that ive done the torture test...mine does show FF....but Id never shoot in those circumstances anyway. and I doubt anyone here would

theres been two blokes that have posted a FF of 700mm....Id question those results..the rest of us FF by about 10mm....something a adequate DOF will mask....



Totally wrong. My k5 could not focus on a subject at a dinner party using onboard flash. To me that is a real world photo with a camera that has a real problem. Took me one night to see it was off.
01-23-2011, 08:27 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zugzwang Quote
mate just buy a damned K5 if you really want one..the FF issues is the biggest over exaggeration ever posted....the reality is , you have to push the K5 to such limits to see the FF..that you'd never shoot like that in the first place...

you need to limit the DOF so much..that why in the hell would anyone do it....it took two months for the issue to be found....I even posted in the closed thread that mine didn't have it....because my lens was ony F4 and I was taking the shot from 2 metres away...rather than the 1 metre with F2.8 that will show the FF.....crikey....

now that ive done the torture test...mine does show FF....but Id never shoot in those circumstances anyway. and I doubt anyone here would

theres been two blokes that have posted a FF of 700mm....Id question those results..the rest of us FF by about 10mm....something a adequate DOF will mask....



Totally wrong. My k5 could not focus on a subject at a dinner party using onboard flash. To me that is a real world photo with a camera that has a real problem. Took me one night to see it was off.

any chance of posting the pictures ? and give us parameters of the image..
01-23-2011, 08:36 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
You won't see it fixed if you keep denying that it exists and is a serious problem for many shooters. If you shoot weddings and indoor events, this could be a deal killer, as many have noted. I would like to see more pushing for a repair than I would more lulling into acceptance of a sub standard camera. We saw this with SDM lenses....how did that work out? To this day most buyers are gun shy of SDM lenses, and just how has that benefited users or Pentax? Quality Control will only be as good as users require, and if they don't require a camera to meet the Mfg Specifications, you can bet it won't.
Regards
I don't deny it exists...it just not a deal breaker..my own testing with my K5 will give a acceptable image in low light as long as the DOF is not pushed to much..for me a difference of 30mm extra DOF will allow a sharp image...for example a 40 mm DOF will exhibit FF whereas 70mm in the same shot will not...

anyone on PF. thats shooting at such a limited DOF at such a low EV will either have the ISO so ramped up , the FF wont matter a squat...{ handheld} or if using a tripod for a static image..just increase the DOF
01-23-2011, 09:04 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
You won't see it fixed if you keep denying that it exists and is a serious problem for many shooters. If you shoot weddings and indoor events, this could be a deal killer, as many have noted. I would like to see more pushing for a repair than I would more lulling into acceptance of a sub standard camera. We saw this with SDM lenses....how did that work out? To this day most buyers are gun shy of SDM lenses, and just how has that benefited users or Pentax? Quality Control will only be as good as users require, and if they don't require a camera to meet the Mfg Specifications, you can bet it won't.
Regards
More to the point, it is a serious problem when shooting under certain conditions.
No one is saying that this isn't something that needs to be fixed, but it isn't the end of civilization that it is being made out to be either.
I suppose if the sun went out and we all had to get around in the dark it would be a problem, but then, that would also be the end of civilization.

There is a huge chasm between taking a pragmatic approach and the one of ongoing hysteria that seems prevalent here.

If this is a deal breaker, buy a K7, it's a decent camera. Or switch brands, I'm sure there are some cameras out there that are absolutely problem free to choose from.
If it is an inconvenience that is trumped by other good points of the camera, buy a K5 and wait for the fix, or wait for the fix and buy a K5.

What is that old horse that gets out of the barn every now and again?
"It isn't the equipment, it's the photographer?"
Maybe there is some truth to it?

01-23-2011, 09:04 PM   #39
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The DOF is not always the reason you shoot wide open with a fast lens, in fact it is seldom the reason many shoot at 2.8 or lower.......the speed you gain over f4 or 5.6 is very often the difference in getting a decent shot or a blurry one. Combine a great 2.8 lens or 1.4/1.7 lens with decent ISO 3200 and you have a camera for low light shooting, which is what you have with a D700 or several others that do not suffer from severe FF issues.
Most of the excitement of the excellent high ISO has little to do with bright sunny days, but much to do with dark or low lit interiors and such. If the K5 does low light high ISO well, and it does, but you can't focus on the subject correctly, where is the gain? Adjusting lenses at each change in light or lens used is not a solution, it is just another problem.

I personally know some of those that have suffered this problem or are currently...some on their 2nd or 3rd camera...they are not liars, they are not amateurs without knowledge of what they experience and why it is a serious problem for them. It looks to me like we could all pull together and agree that the camera should meet the specifications given, whether you use it to that advantage or not. Making light of our fellow shooters and their difficulties is not winning Pentax any friends, and it is not encouraging a timely repair. If you are on a ship with a hole in the bottom, taking pleasure or making light of the fact that it is not in your end of the ship is not very sound judgment, is it?
Best Regards
01-23-2011, 09:06 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
any chance of posting the pictures ? and give us parameters of the image..
Sure,here's a test shot. Target is the photo the girl is holding.

IMGP0912 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
01-23-2011, 09:07 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
anyone on PF. thats shooting at such a limited DOF at such a low EV will either have the ISO so ramped up , the FF wont matter a squat...{ handheld} or if using a tripod for a static image..just increase the DOF
I think most K5 buyers expect the capabilities of the camera to expand the options they have available to them when taking shots in challenging situations. Limiting how shots are taken (i.e. increasing the DOF) to work around a core function of the camera that is not working according to the specs published by Pentax certainly doesn't meet that expectation.

If your preferred shooting style makes the K5 work for you (or your camera truly has no FF issue) that is great. But it doesn't diminish the reality that many users are being limited by the focusing issue.
01-23-2011, 09:45 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
The DOF is not always the reason you shoot wide open with a fast lens, in fact it is seldom the reason many shoot at 2.8 or lower.......the speed you gain over f4 or 5.6 is very often the difference in getting a decent shot or a blurry one. Combine a great 2.8 lens or 1.4/1.7 lens with decent ISO 3200 and you have a camera for low light shooting, which is what you have with a D700 or several others that do not suffer from severe FF issues.
Most of the excitement of the excellent high ISO has little to do with bright sunny days, but much to do with dark or low lit interiors and such. If the K5 does low light high ISO well, and it does, but you can't focus on the subject correctly, where is the gain? Adjusting lenses at each change in light or lens used is not a solution, it is just another problem.

I personally know some of those that have suffered this problem or are currently...some on their 2nd or 3rd camera...they are not liars, they are not amateurs without knowledge of what they experience and why it is a serious problem for them. It looks to me like we could all pull together and agree that the camera should meet the specifications given, whether you use it to that advantage or not. Making light of our fellow shooters and their difficulties is not winning Pentax any friends, and it is not encouraging a timely repair. If you are on a ship with a hole in the bottom, taking pleasure or making light of the fact that it is not in your end of the ship is not very sound judgment, is it?
Best Regards
Rupert, you are missing the point.
Threads such as this are the internet equivalent of piling on in football.
We've made Pentax aware that there is a problem, it's pretty unlikely that they would just stop working towards a fix simply because people stopped playing Kick The Can with the K5.
There is a thread going called " Relevant news re malfunctioning AF under artificial light"
Tell me, what, if anything, of relevance has come from it? Has there been any earth shattering news?
Has someone graphed a chart of angstroms vs. intensity to quantify the failure absolutely?
Would it matter if someone had?
It's pretty well accepted that virtually all K5s have a problem with low light AF, people coming onto the forum just to post that their K5 is affected and they are going to either jump ship, or jump off a bridge is no longer of any relevance.
It's just a bunch of people making "me too" posts.
01-23-2011, 10:08 PM   #43
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For me, I wouldn't get a K-7 or any other brand camera because of this issue. I can understand the disappointment in buying a camera that might have spots or might have a focusing issue. Cars are another consumer item which tend to be released with flaws (we won't even mention software here), but by the second year, most of the issues are worked out.

I wouldn't (and didn't), but if you are really worried about using a camera for pro use (any brand), I would advise not buying as an early adopter. Wait 12 months. The price will be down and the bugs if any will be sorted out.

I have the K-5 and this weekend it was a life saver. The rechargeable for my flash are apparently dead and ironically I think I have better shots with no flash than I would have had with bounce. ISO 3200/6400 is usable. Pentax or otherwise, many other cameras fall flat under these conditions.

Wait if you are worried. If you like the K-5, buy one and enjoy it. If you happen to have one that has an issue, it'll get resolved and you can carry on.
01-23-2011, 10:21 PM   #44
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*Everyone* gets burned by the Hysteria epidemic.

QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
The problem is that legitimate concerns often spiral into indictments of the entire camera. Problems focusing properly under certain conditions grows into, "I can't use my camera at above ISO3200 so why bother" (not true) or "The K-5 can't get anything in focus" (also not true) or "This is just another example of how Pentax autofocus sucks!" (well, kind of true. But the K-5 AF is a mostly great improvement over past efforts)

For example, when Falconeye showed the K-7 had some shutter blur problems under certain conditions (wide angles at f- stop 1/100) this all of a sudden became the de facto explanation for all sorts of blurry shots from people who weren't educated about what the problem actually was. As a fellow K-7 user, I'm sure you know that you have to try pretty hard to actually run into this problem, even though it exists and I'm pretty sure Pentax never solved that problem either. Doesn't make the K-7 a bad camera.

Now you've got this FF problem that has festered so totally out of proportion as to have one thread shut down and another started again to no real positive result. So blowback against threads like this becomes as inevitable as the complaints themselves, even if the intent of the original poster was innocent.

The K-5 is a great camera (the best I've ever owned) with a few flaws, some of which will hopefully be fixed, others likely will not. Personally I believe the K-5's flaws have been blown way out of proportion. This said, it's also OK if you don't want to buy it.
.


I posted this in my thread about Hysteria in another forum

Hysteria Hysteria!

1) someone at some point posts: "Hey, I don't know if it's just me, but my cam/lens seems to be doing X."

2) Couple other people post "Hey, me too!"

3) Fanboys: "user error."

4) Problem-havers: "No, I know what I'm doing."

5) Hysteria-havers: "I've got it too! Look!" (shows something exhibiting probable problem "Y")

6) Fanboys: "See? That's problem 'Y'. Obviously, no-one can thus have problem 'X'!"

7) Problem-havers: "Ummm... I don't think I'm talking about the same thing."

8) Enter, Trolls: "Heee! Problem X/Y is an obvious indictment of your equipment choice, and thus yourselves!"

9) Fanboys: "&^%&%$(())%^$$#$%"

10) Problem-Havers: "Sigh. Look. I'm having problem X here."

11) Fanboys: "You're all trolls! This forum sucks now, it used to be all about the photography!"

12) Trolls: "Hee!"

13) Hysteria is declared. Some Hysteria-havers join the ranks of trolls at this point, some Fanboys gain a hardened stance, some Fanboys recognize the possibility of X and soften. Some Problem-havers quietly leave the forum, others remain, feeling jittery and jilted for a while.

Trolls retreat under the bridge, watching.... (as always.)



Coda:
6 months later, Big Cam Co quietly releases an update that mitigates problem 'X'.






.
01-23-2011, 11:46 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
I didn't notice any major focus problems with my K-5 when I had it (off at Pentax for stains). Yes, the focus would sometimes be a little off when very dark (too dark to comfortably read in), but nothing one or two attempts at refocus and a little bit of AF micro-adjustment didn't fix (+2-3 for minor backfocus on some of my lenses).

For those who are camparing it to the K-x, I would say there simply is no comparison, because the K-x's AF consistently fails entirely under the exact same conditions that the K-5 barely slowed down in (and would invariably be totally off if a miracle happened and it locked on anything), so the whole thing is moot. This has been made quite apparent to me now that I'm forced to go back to my K-x.

I still consider it one of the best purchases I've ever made, and I can't wait to get mine back.

Totally agree. In comparison, Pentax DSLRs before the K5 and Kr simply would have failed to even get focus or be so slow as to totally miss some shots.

I have over 20K of shots on my K5 and I have not run into anything major that would want me to slam the camera as BAD.





QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
The problem is that legitimate concerns often spiral into indictments of the entire camera. Problems focusing properly under certain conditions grows into, "I can't use my camera at above ISO3200 so why bother" (not true) or "The K-5 can't get anything in focus" (also not true) or "This is just another example of how Pentax autofocus sucks!" (well, kind of true. But the K-5 AF is a mostly great improvement over past efforts)

For example, when Falconeye showed the K-7 had some shutter blur problems under certain conditions (wide angles at f- stop 1/100) this all of a sudden became the de facto explanation for all sorts of blurry shots from people who weren't educated about what the problem actually was. As a fellow K-7 user, I'm sure you know that you have to try pretty hard to actually run into this problem, even though it exists and I'm pretty sure Pentax never solved that problem either. Doesn't make the K-7 a bad camera.

Now you've got this FF problem that has festered so totally out of proportion as to have one thread shut down and another started again to no real positive result. So blowback against threads like this becomes as inevitable as the complaints themselves, even if the intent of the original poster was innocent.

The K-5 is a great camera (the best I've ever owned) with a few flaws, some of which will hopefully be fixed, others likely will not. Personally I believe the K-5's flaws have been blown way out of proportion. This said, it's also OK if you don't want to buy it.

Very well said. This is precisely the problem here. There is no perfect camera and the problem with this forum now (esp. the K5 and Kr sub-forum) is that SO MANY seem to want the K5/Kr to fail, blowing the problems way out of proportions. Even worse, new folks interested in the camera hear of "This unknown brand camera has got problems" and immediately join the Canikon queue. They will certainly have no interest and loyalty to shift through all the real info and conclude that things are actually pretty fine.
So what happens?
A perfectly good camera and brand closes down cause their 'fans' were too obsessed with finding and extrapolating faults to make it fail.
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