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01-24-2011, 03:47 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
did the af assist light come on with the K7 ?
To be honest I can't remember. Probably not as the light was not terribly low but I would just be guessing.

01-24-2011, 03:52 AM   #62
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the reason I ask, is that my K 7 af light came on way before the K5...the K5 is quite difficult to get the AF light to come on in Phase detect AF, whereas Contrast AF {LV} thw lamp lights up a lot earlier ,,, particularly with the newer silent firmware release
01-24-2011, 04:06 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
the reason I ask, is that my K 7 af light came on way before the K5...the K5 is quite difficult to get the AF light to come on in Phase detect AF, whereas Contrast AF {LV} thw lamp lights up a lot earlier ,,, particularly with the newer silent firmware release
I would get the same result with the K5 with AF light on or off.
01-24-2011, 04:21 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Just so I'm not talking empty words, this shot was taken two days ago at our Pentax user outing. K-5 with a friend's Sigma 50mm f/1.4 indoors at f1.4 focused on the eye on the right. Uncropped, straight from camera, no AF adjustments done... You know what? I may have had issues buying Sigma lenses in the past due to their QC issues but I'm gonna be buying this lens soon. Those who can't shoot for nuts and wanna blame the camera, who got to vent or go hysterical, or jump ship are at liberty to do so. As for me, I'm just gonna be content enjoying my K-5 even more.
That shot was taken at f1.4, iso125 and 1/80th...no one is having issues at that light level. First, understand the issue before you claim the ones with the issue can't shoot. Many in the other forum has said similar things and had posted similar non-sensical images to prove their point...this is why I think the problem is under reported as many like you who claim to have no problems don't even know what the problem is (which is fine for them, why fix something that's not needed). But, this problem starts up in low light conditions that is easily encountered indoors.


Last edited by pcarfan; 01-24-2011 at 04:26 AM.
01-24-2011, 04:30 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Totally agree. In comparison, Pentax DSLRs before the K5 and Kr simply would have failed to even get focus or be so slow as to totally miss some shots.

I have over 20K of shots on my K5 and I have not run into anything major that would want me to slam the camera as BAD.








Very well said. This is precisely the problem here. There is no perfect camera and the problem with this forum now (esp. the K5 and Kr sub-forum) is that SO MANY seem to want the K5/Kr to fail, blowing the problems way out of proportions. Even worse, new folks interested in the camera hear of "This unknown brand camera has got problems" and immediately join the Canikon queue. They will certainly have no interest and loyalty to shift through all the real info and conclude that things are actually pretty fine.
So what happens?
A perfectly good camera and brand closes down cause their 'fans' were too obsessed with finding and extrapolating faults to make it fail.
The K-7 was before the k-5 and it focuses MUCH better than the K-5 in low light. Your second paragraph is just the usual paranoia not based on reality.
01-24-2011, 04:32 AM   #66
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My f2.8 test

[PhotoME]
PhotoME version: 0.79R17 (Build 856)

[Overview]
File name: D:\PHOTOS\PENTAX\K5\New Folder\IMGP0814.JPG
File type: JPEG
File size: 8,481.9*KB
Creation date: 24/01/2011 21:08
Last modification: 24/01/2011 22:12
Make: PENTAX (PENTAX)
Camera: PENTAX K-5
Lens: K or M Lens
Software: K-5 Ver 1.01
Dimension: 4928 x 3264*px*(16.1 MP, 3:2)
Focal length: 70*mm*(equiv. 105*mm)
Aperture: F2.8
Exposure time: 15"
ISO speed rating: 80/20
Program: Aperture Priority
Metering Mode: Center-weighted average
White Balance: Auto
Focus Mode: AF-S
Image Stabilizer: not ready
Noise Reduction: Off
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode



01-24-2011, 04:37 AM   #67
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Yep, same as Zugzwang here.
I posted a picture here with the same kind of major FF. Mine is about EV 8 (1/30 @ f2.8) so it's also above the EV 3-4 limit people often talk about.
In better light the AF is spot on, I only get that kind of mis-focus when the light is "not good".

Regarding this FF issue, lots of people think it's an over exaggeration because they don't experience it for a reason or another. Perhaps they camera has the issue only at a lower EV, or they don't have 2.8 or wider lenses, but the original issue is not about a slightly imprecise AF, it's a major one that gives totally unusable pictures.
01-24-2011, 04:56 AM   #68
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I've got a lot of indoors pics made with my K5, i've never notice any focus problem, everything is fine with mine.
For example :
Flickr: Le Piment's stuff tagged with k5
(i'm think i'm the luckiest guy around here, no stain, no FF...)

01-24-2011, 06:10 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
The K-7 was before the k-5 and it focuses MUCH better than the K-5 in low light. Your second paragraph is just the usual paranoia not based on reality.
I believe Rupert is right about the rights of those complaining and you for one reason SDM. No one knows for sure if Pentax will release a fix or if you need to send in your K-5. If I had one I would send it in, again and again until no problem. But the underlying fear stems from JohnCPentax saying he would look into it and never coming back nor Pentax with an answer to SDM. It's understandable for those worried to be so.

My personal feelings are I would never shoot under those conditions. I tried my K20D yesterday in the lowest light I would shoot without a flash and no problems at f/2.8. So I fully understand those thinking this is crazy to make a big deal of. At first I thought folks were being super picky but I did not know how much it FF and how wide spread the issue 'might be'. But as everything in life there are different views and IMOs. I won't try to stop either side from writing what they feel because each person has their expectations for the K-5. Like Rupert said let them vent.

Now if we are still talking about this 6 months from now my view will change again.
01-24-2011, 07:02 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Rupert, you are missing the point.
Threads such as this are the internet equivalent of piling on in football.
We've made Pentax aware that there is a problem, it's pretty unlikely that they would just stop working towards a fix simply because people stopped playing Kick The Can with the K5.
There is a thread going called " Relevant news re malfunctioning AF under artificial light"
Tell me, what, if anything, of relevance has come from it? Has there been any earth shattering news?
Has someone graphed a chart of angstroms vs. intensity to quantify the failure absolutely?
Would it matter if someone had?
It's pretty well accepted that virtually all K5s have a problem with low light AF, people coming onto the forum just to post that their K5 is affected and they are going to either jump ship, or jump off a bridge is no longer of any relevance.
It's just a bunch of people making "me too" posts.


Wheatfield, I can see your point, and to some degree I even agree that we are not making progress in solving the issue by continually going over and over the same points without seeing a solution brought forward. However, I present to you a similar case where the complainers were drowned out and not allowed to continue "piling on"......SDM lenses. Many asked for a solution by having Pentax make them work as screw drive when the SDM function failed, but since their voices had already been largely silenced, this never happened. Now we have a large number of Pentax users that avoid SDM lenses at any cost........If we assume that Pentax will make this FF repair if we go silent, will we also see a large number of shooters avoid the K5 at any cost? Like SDM, there are alternatives in the Marketplace, and people will take advantage of them, so the end result could easily be the same as for SDM. In fact, it is a sure bet that K5 sales are already less than what they would be without this problem.....word travels fast on the internet.
So....the solution is not silence or denial, it is a repair of the problem, plain and simple. Nothing would work faster or better than for Pentax to make this repair or at least announce that they were working to solve the issue. Silence by Pentax is indeed one of the problems here. They were pretty fast to address the sensor stains, and that led to a return in confidence, but this deafening silence on the FF issue is killing confidence again. There are all sorts of reasons given for their refusal to acknowledge this defect, but how come those same reasons did not apply to the sensor stain issue? If they could address that, then why not this? That makes many people recall SDM, where they simply never addressed it....and we know the result of that poor decision.

To sum up my personal feelings, I just want a repair to come forth, and most here that are complaining only want the same. A guy does not go through the hassle of several camera returns just to have an opportunity to come here and whine.....he is not a Pentax basher, he is a dedicated user and should be treated accordingly......which allows for him to voice his disappointment without being criticized as long as he is clearly civil and honest in his complaint. Many if not most will still be there to buy the K5 when this is addressed....if we are not the ones that run them off.
Best Regards
01-24-2011, 07:10 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
A shoot made in good light (however well focused) doesn't really add anything to this discussion about focusing in dim light, EV4 or lower.
I totally agree, the shot was worthless as an example for anything other than advertisement for Sigma and an opportunity to bash fellow shooters, some with much more experience that this shooter. It might help if we worked together and not against each other as this poster has done.
Regards
01-24-2011, 07:28 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snydly Quote
Urkeldaedalus, thank you for your tactful response.

Agreed. I see your point.

However, I'm just uncomfortable (for others) reading some of the responses some people get. There are better ways to address a poster than to ridicule them. In writing what I did, and too this response, I find myself working too hard to make sure I don't write something someone will attack. It shouldn't be that way. I know the world isn't perfect, and we need thick skin at times, but not here. I'm proud of the people here, and I'm proud of my choice in Pentax. Some of the responses here put this forum and indirectly Pentax and our community in a bad light.
Amen and +1!
There are tons of people on this forum who are true experts and are extremely resourceful. You see them in all forums, form K5, to lenses, to troubleshooting, to general.
Then, you have the other extreme: Those who "think" or want us to believe they are experts.
Some people who have 6000+ posts, claim they have all sorts of expertise and experience; they want you to believe they are part of an "elite" and yet, a good 90% of their posts are used to ridicule and downplay other people's posts, mostly newcomers. They also feel they are allowed to do this, use agressive language, call people names, etc. because they DO have 6000+ posts, and they DO send $10 a year to the forum to have "Site Supporter" written next to their names....
Those know who they are... You guys are an irritant.
This is a Forum. It is open to ANYBODY who has an opinion on any Pentax matter. As Snydly says: you don't like something, just ignore it. Go shoot pictures.

FWIW to the OP: My K5 does not have the stains, but it slightly front focuses in low light and SOME lenses. It is not enough for me to leave it on the shelf, far from there. I consider it is still 99% fully functional in my case as I only do about 5-7% low light work. The k5 is still superior in almost every respects than my older K7. When needed, I apply good old fashion manual settings. But, I know how you feel, and can empathize with you considering you seem to be doing more low light work than I.

Gene

Last edited by xGene; 01-24-2011 at 07:33 AM. Reason: fixed grammar error
01-24-2011, 09:11 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
A shoot made in good light (however well focused) doesn't really add anything to this discussion about focusing in dim light, EV4 or lower.
How about a quick and dirty uncropped shot using the FA 43mm aimed at the Philips logo (shot at f/2, 1/20 sec at ISO 12800)?
It seems sharp enough to me, considering I had difficulty seeing it.


Last edited by creampuff; 01-24-2011 at 09:36 AM.
01-24-2011, 09:39 AM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I ain't no wet behind the ears novice not to know what the problem is all about.
How about a quick and dirty uncropped shot using the FA 43mm aimed at the Philips logo (shot at f/2, 1/20 sec at ISO 12800)?
It seems sharp enough to me, considering I had difficulty seeing it.





Ha, ha, that's pretty rich coming from you considering you haven't even owned a K-5, yet you can make unsupported statements. Who is bashing who? When you state unsubstantiated drivel then expect a rebuttal.

The shot you posted as an "experienced shooter" speaks for itself. A common shot in good light is not an example of the problem and even a beginner would recognize that. You may be one of the lucky ones with the hole in the bottom of the ship at the opposite end from where you are sitting, but your apparent need to take aim at those that are all wet is not a good example of sound reasoning.
Regards
01-24-2011, 10:19 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
How about a quick and dirty uncropped shot using the FA 43mm aimed at the Philips logo (shot at f/2, 1/20 sec at ISO 12800)?
It seems sharp enough to me, considering I had difficulty seeing it.
I believe this shot is ~ EV -.67 and to me appears underexposed making the shot about EV -1.5 to EV -2.?7? At this light level I thought the "focus assist light" was used to complete focus. Was the "focus assist light" used in this shot?

When the "focus assist light" is used, most people report the focus is very good.

If it was used, I would say this example is irrelevant to the topic.

P.S. It may also be the green LCD light was a higher EV and the focus sensors used that for focusing...

P.P.S. I'd like to see an example from your camera at EV 2, properly exposed with no bright lights in the picture.

Last edited by betaPhoto; 01-24-2011 at 10:30 AM.
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