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01-28-2011, 09:27 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Not just Pentax bodies, all cameras have FF issues under incandescent light. Pentax introduced an AF system that compensates for this with the K-7 and it worked remarkabley well. But, the main point is, I compared the K-5 and the k-7 side to side and even posted the results here showing MY K-7 did a MUCH BETTER job than MY k-5 in lindoor low light (I mean slightly dim light not overly dark)....that's the problem.
Well then, Houston, we have a problem. But not such one you are describing

I also have still my K7 and my experience is that K5 handles indoor low light much better

We cannot be both right? or can we?

01-28-2011, 09:34 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Well in reality the FF problem that my K-5 suffers from does not exist in the slightest in my K20D which focusses fine even in light levels which would turn the K-5s assist light on.

Of course no one expects AFR to perform all the way down to blackness, but the K-5 problem does NOT exist in previous models
My K20 had FF problems.... it seems that there is no logical pattern and so claiming that K5 has problems that previous models didnt have, sounds me quite weird.
01-28-2011, 09:55 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harald Quote
My K20 had FF problems.... it seems that there is no logical pattern and so claiming that K5 has problems that previous models didnt have, sounds me quite weird.
Can you point us to the old forum threads where a significant amount of users reported FF focussing problems in low light with the K20D?

If there does show there was a comparable problem then I will gladly take back my sentiments.
01-28-2011, 10:37 AM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Can you point us to the old forum threads where a significant amount of users reported FF focussing problems in low light with the K20D?

If there does show there was a comparable problem then I will gladly take back my sentiments.
My K20 suffered this and it was discussed a lot here. You can find them yourself if you want some proof, I will not do it. I know what I am talking about and have no need to convert anybody.

These problems in the low artificial light was the reason why K7 got an sensor into its AF system to sense the colour of light. K20 and older ones didnt have it.

01-28-2011, 04:22 PM - 1 Like   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harald Quote
My K20 suffered this and it was discussed a lot here. You can find them yourself if you want some proof, I will not do it. I know what I am talking about and have no need to convert anybody.

You're avoiding my question. I didn't ask about YOUR specific K-5 I said ...

QuoteQuote:
Can you point us to the old forum threads where a significant amount of users reported FF focussing problems in low light with the K20D?

If there does show there was a comparable problem then I will gladly take back my sentiments.
So in truth there was NOT a significant FF problem with the K20D as there is with the K-7 and your comparisons with the K-7 are nonsense.

Further, even though the issue is well publicised in this forum you try and pretend you know nothing about it ...

QuoteOriginally posted by Harald Quote
Could you please tell me what are those issues that didnt exist in previous generation cameras?

I have had MX, K2, LX, Z-1p, MX5n, *istD, K100D, K10, K20, K7 and now K5 and I am not aware of such ones.... I have also photographed 30+ years...
and then most offensively you try and suggest that most of those who are reporting problems are dign so becuase they are newbies


QuoteOriginally posted by Harald Quote
Although they are loyal Pentax users, it seems to me that many of them are quite a newbies in photographing and with advanced SLR:s.

So there is a lot of gripes about issues that are not due to a camera but fellow behind it. Quite a many "issues" are put on camera, but many of them are just lack of experience and knowledge and pure incompetence.

It is difficult to say in public, politically incorrect, but many have bought cameras exceeding their own level of skills quite a lot. And those are in very many cases first ones to blame the equipment, and are not capable to see the truth.

Why can't you just accept that others may actually know what they are talking about and are capable of telling whether their camera is faulty or not?

In fairness you are not the first "My K-5 doesn't Front Focus in low light so there can't be a problem" person I've come across.
01-28-2011, 06:17 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
I'll let you know...just waiting for the battery to charge. What exactly is the FF problem?
If the lenses on your list are all that you have, odds are you won't see a problem. Put your fastest lens on the camera and set the aperture for wide open. Under Tungsten light, pick an object and let the camera auto-focus on it. IF you have the problem, issue, flaw, whatever you want to call it, the area in front of what ever you focused on will be in focus while, the actual object will appear Out of focus.

The 'issue' first turned up here when using lenses faster than f2.0 (such as an f1.4). Mine does it with the FA77 f1.8 for instance, In Tungsten (regular room) lighting. Some are saying the K7 didn't have that problem. Maybe, maybe not. Don't know. Can't say I ever noticed it with mine. On my K5, with an f2.8 lens, there doesn't appear to Be any FF problem. That's why I say, you may never actually see it.

01-28-2011, 06:25 PM   #52
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My personal experience: my K-7 was perfect, no QC issues at all. I bought it about 6 months after it was introduced. Auto-focus and low-light performance were lacking compared to the competition, but this wasn't a QC issue. I read of other people having some minor problems (electronic level calibration issues, e-dial QC problems, etc.), but nothing worth yelling about.

Bought a K-x in June 2010 as a second body. Absolutely perfect, no QC issues at all. I've read of some minor QC issues others have had (e-dial, mode dial, etc.), but again nothing out of the ordinary. This K-x still serves me well.

My first K-5 (bought in early November) seemed flawless. Everything worked perfectly, just like my K-7 used to. Auto-focus and low-light performance were noticeably improved, to the point where I was completely happy. Then I noticed some weird dots on some of my pictures, paid for professional sensor cleaning, learned the dots weren't coming off, did some research, and learned about the sensor stain issue. Sent the camera back, and was left without my best camera for 3 weeks.

Replacement K-5 arrives! Sensor stains are completely gone, replaced with dozens of dust specs all over the sensor. Oh well, guess I'll pay for another professional cleaning. So I put the camera down (while it's still turned on) to call the local camera store that does my cleanings, and I noticed the electronic level is indicating that my table is crooked by 3 ticks. How odd... further testing showed that the electronic level was off by 3 ticks. Turning on "Horizon Correction" in the camera resulted in all my pictures being askew. So another defective K-5, and I must suffer through the 3-week replacement procedure yet again.

Maybe it's because I'm an early adopter of the K-5. Or maybe it really does suffer from QC issues more than other Pentax cameras have in the past. I just don't know.
01-28-2011, 06:39 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by merengue Quote
Rupert:
Very well stated and positive. I want the K-5 but cannot go through return cycles.
Earl
You may as well forget about ever buying another camera.
There are no guarantees in this world about getting a 100% defect free piece of equipment.
For that matter, there are no guarantees that a succeeding generation of equipment will do everything better than the last generation.
Sometimes they compromise one parameter because another parameter becomes more important and they have to choose.
Look at high ISO noise moving from K20 to K7. Pentax went to a new sensor from Samsung that had a 4 channel readout instead of the two channel readout on the K20.
We got a much more responsive camera, but the trade off was somewhat more noise at high ISO.
Before anyone jumps on this post, I'm just pointing out that the expectation that we have regarding our equipment is not based on anything other than our wishes.

01-28-2011, 06:48 PM   #54
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It's worth mentioning that Nikon, Pentax and Sony were all rushing more than usual to bring their latest offerings based on this sensor to market, and in the process, may have forgone the more thorough QC process that they usually apply. I'm just guessing, of course, but it may be no coincidence that all the cameras based on this sensor have had some notable QC problems, and not necessarily in the area of the sensor itself.
01-28-2011, 07:25 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
If the lenses on your list are all that you have, odds are you won't see a problem. Put your fastest lens on the camera and set the aperture for wide open. Under Tungsten light, pick an object and let the camera auto-focus on it. IF you have the problem, issue, flaw, whatever you want to call it, the area in front of what ever you focused on will be in focus while, the actual object will appear Out of focus.
Thanks for that, it is an issue I would never have discovered!
01-29-2011, 06:03 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harald Quote
My K20 had FF problems.... it seems that there is no logical pattern and so claiming that K5 has problems that previous models didnt have, sounds me quite weird.
It is weird isn't it.

Hey! even more weird is according to a poster in DPR even Pentax germany is palying this mind game and is claiming they know of this non-existant FF issue and claims even Pentax Japan knows about it and is frantically looking for a software solution....they are apparantly working on a solution to a non-existant problem?...we know it's non-existant as older Pentax cameras didn't have this issue and obviously that means K-5 possibly cannot have it, right?

This is the e-mail in german....But,

"Sehr geehrter Herr .....,

vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.

Das von Ihnen beschriebene Fokusproblem ist uns bekannt. Wir arbeiten derzeit mit Hochdruck an einer softwareseitigen Lösung des Problems. Sobald ein Update für dieses Problem verfügbar ist, werden wir es über unsere Homepage veröffentlichen. Wir bitten Sie daher um etwas Geduld.

Wir hoffen Ihnen mit unserer Antwort behilflich gewesen zu sein.

Bitte zögern Sie nicht, uns bei Rückfragen erneut zu kontaktieren.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
M.....

Pentax Camera Support Team
01-29-2011, 06:26 AM   #57
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Not So Much

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
You may as well forget about ever buying another camera.
There are no guarantees in this world about getting a 100% defect free piece of equipment.
For that matter, there are no guarantees that a succeeding generation of equipment will do everything better than the last generation.
Sometimes they compromise one parameter because another parameter becomes more important and they have to choose.
Look at high ISO noise moving from K20 to K7. Pentax went to a new sensor from Samsung that had a 4 channel readout instead of the two channel readout on the K20.
We got a much more responsive camera, but the trade off was somewhat more noise at high ISO.
Before anyone jumps on this post, I'm just pointing out that the expectation that we have regarding our equipment is not based on anything other than our wishes.

While some of what you say here is true (like the K7 had improvements in various areas but not in noise performance), your last statement is nonsense.

I simply want my K5 to perform to the published specifications. That has nothing to do with simply wishing for something that I dreamed up myself.

Ray
01-29-2011, 07:14 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
You're avoiding my question. I didn't ask about YOUR specific K-5 I said ...



So in truth there was NOT a significant FF problem with the K20D as there is with the K-7 and your comparisons with the K-7 are nonsense.

Further, even though the issue is well publicised in this forum you try and pretend you know nothing about it ...



and then most offensively you try and suggest that most of those who are reporting problems are dign so becuase they are newbies





Why can't you just accept that others may actually know what they are talking about and are capable of telling whether their camera is faulty or not?

In fairness you are not the first "My K-5 doesn't Front Focus in low light so there can't be a problem" person I've come across.
I do not know why you take this as personal as it seems. But flaming is not an good behaviour in conversation.

I told my opinion, you found from it an reason to be so offended that started this flaming. I am sorry for you, cant help...

This conversation with you is over from my side. I hope you do the same. No reason to continue.
01-29-2011, 07:26 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
It is weird isn't it.

Hey! even more weird is according to a poster in DPR even Pentax germany is palying this mind game and is claiming they know of this non-existant FF issue and claims even Pentax Japan knows about it and is frantically looking for a software solution....they are apparantly working on a solution to a non-existant problem?...we know it's non-existant as older Pentax cameras didn't have this issue and obviously that means K-5 possibly cannot have it, right?

This is the e-mail in german....But,

"Sehr geehrter Herr .....,

vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.

Das von Ihnen beschriebene Fokusproblem ist uns bekannt. Wir arbeiten derzeit mit Hochdruck an einer softwareseitigen Lösung des Problems. Sobald ein Update für dieses Problem verfügbar ist, werden wir es über unsere Homepage veröffentlichen. Wir bitten Sie daher um etwas Geduld.

Wir hoffen Ihnen mit unserer Antwort behilflich gewesen zu sein.

Bitte zögern Sie nicht, uns bei Rückfragen erneut zu kontaktieren.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
M.....

Pentax Camera Support Team
I didnt say that FF problems are non existent. Not at all.

I said that this phenomena existed also in previous models. It was an answer to one who claimed that K5 is in this issue worse than previous bodies were

Logical pattern referred to the situation that considering one model, some users have this FF problem and some doesnt.

And this seems to be the situation with all Pentax bodies. That was the "no pattern" issue I mentioned.

If all/most of us find FF fault in specific camera and all/most of us doesnt find it anymore in next model, there is a pattern, but this is not the case.

There is a problem, but because of some peculiar and weird reason it doenst manifest itself in all produced copies?

Last edited by Harald; 01-29-2011 at 07:28 AM. Reason: typo...
01-29-2011, 07:37 AM   #60
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As I posted in another thread...

"I ordered a K-5 body from B&H on Wednesday, Jan 26. It arrived new and factory fresh (Manf date: 14-Jan-11, shutter count = 0) on Friday, Jan 28. I paired it to a DFA 100/2.8 MACRO WR, upgraded to FW 1.02, and immediately put it through the classic stains test described here and elsewhere. Result = clean sensor (NO PROBLEM). I also shot some typical tungsten lit subjects at f/2.8 using AF in low light settings that were much darker than usual for me, but NOT so dark the AF assist light came on. Result = focus seems spot on, works great (NO PROBLEM). So for me, I'm putting the sensor stain and AF FF/BF issues out of my mind and am looking forward to some photographic fun... Appears to be a neat tough camera body just like the tons of reviews suggest..."

Cheers... M
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