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07-12-2011, 02:17 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Well said, Rupert.

Maybe posters (those that frogfish doesn't like) who don't have a K-5 post about K-5 issues not because they don't have one. Maybe it is the other way round. Maybe these posters don't have a K-5 precisely because other people they got to know via the forum and trust their assessment (e.g., falconeye and his low-light AF study) have reported issues.

Frogfish, maybe you didn't mean me personally, but I don't want to pay a considerable amount of money for a camera that has AF low light issues and that I might have to slap hard now and then to get the shutter unstuck or whose battery I need to remove once in a while to stop the mirror from flipping up and down.

I might be lucky and get a good copy, however, given my situation -- I cannot buy locally and just return -- I'd rather wait till some of the issues will be gone (like the stains).

It might be tiring to read posts "knocking the K-5" but it is also tiring to hear the argument "you cannot even take part in a discussion unless you own the equipment". Why would I get some equipment just to be able to say "my K-5 cannot focus properly in low-light" rather than "people I trust (falconeye) have established that the K-5 cannot focus in low light"?

BTW, I agree with you: The K-5 is a superb piece of kit. If I could rely on getting one that worked to specification, I would have bought one already.
If we were in the early days of it's release I could agree with you .... but we're not. Shutters sticking etc. are a very minute problem as a percentage of sales and fit well within the 1:20 ratio that Canon / Nikon cameras have too. Whatever camera you have now could also have had an issue but you were 'lucky' and fell within the 19/20 people with a perfectly fine camera.

We are not talking about stains or tungsten light AF that has for most (see the relevant threads) been solved by the lastest firmware release.

What bugs me is that the stains (blame Sony) and tungsten light AF are brought up in every debate on K5 issues - even though they are no longer relevant to someone buying a new K5 today.

As for trusting people's opinion, it's doesn't come down to that, I don't even see what that has to do with anything to be honest. Maybe you choose to ignore the vast majority who have no issues ? There must be a few in that group whose opinion you value as well.

It's interesting because there is a guy here on PF who has(had) both the K5 and the D7000 and he found absolutely no difference in the AF in low light in normal use. I can honestly say it has never been an issue for me either and I definitely fall into the 'ambient light' crowd.

I can understand that living in NZ you may be hesitant because of the costs involved in returning it. I'm coming over there next Jan /Feb so maybe I'll bring a pre-checked K5 over to you

07-12-2011, 02:23 AM   #137
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froggy

I had a K5.in fact I had two of them..and a K7..I had a few Af issues with the K5 and certain lenses..not all....but enough for it to be camera issue rather than a lens problem..sad , but non the less true,,this being low light AF

I read other forums, and bought a used D300s..not because it had the latest sensor or that its ergonomics were spot on..I bought it for its superb AF...I didnt buy a D7000..because of the issues you stated, also I've made a promise to myself never to be a early adopter again ..the D300s will AF in near pitch black..and that's without the Af assist light on....the D700 is supposed to be even better..so your in for a treat when you get a D700.
07-12-2011, 02:46 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
froggy

I had a K5.in fact I had two of them..and a K7..I had a few Af issues with the K5 and certain lenses..not all....but enough for it to be camera issue rather than a lens problem..sad , but non the less true,,this being low light AF

I read other forums, and bought a used D300s..not because it had the latest sensor or that its ergonomics were spot on..I bought it for its superb AF...I didnt buy a D7000..because of the issues you stated, also I've made a promise to myself never to be a early adopter again ..the D300s will AF in near pitch black..and that's without the Af assist light on....the D700 is supposed to be even better..so your in for a treat when you get a D700.
Mate - I'm not saying there isn't a low light AF issue (as quite clearly, with certain lenses, there is) just that it hasn't been an issue for me, and doubtless many others. BTW my low light lenses are 43/1.9 Ltd, Sigma 30/1.4 and previously F 50/1.4 (and I've switched the AF assist off as it's very distracting for my subjects/targets) Other low light lenses are all MF lenses

Can't wait to get the D700 - want it especially for low DoF portraits etc. !
07-12-2011, 03:03 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
I read other forums, and bought a used D300s
that was a very tempting camera to me too...but not at 1400 euro new body only...compared to K5+18-55WR I got for 1100 euro new

07-12-2011, 03:40 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Mate - I'm not saying there isn't a low light AF issue (as quite clearly, with certain lenses, there is) just that it hasn't been an issue for me, and doubtless many others. BTW my low light lenses are 43/1.9 Ltd, Sigma 30/1.4 and previously F 50/1.4 (and I've switched the AF assist off as it's very distracting for my subjects/targets) Other low light lenses are all MF lenses

Can't wait to get the D700 - want it especially for low DoF portraits etc. !
yep the D700 is a fine instrument that's for sure ..im also after a used one once the repalcement is released..we may both be able to find one in our budgets

with the lens testing I performed I did find that screw drive primes were not a issue..go figure

QuoteOriginally posted by stanic Quote
that was a very tempting camera to me too...but not at 1400 euro new body only...compared to K5+18-55WR I got for 1100 euro new
that's why I bought a lightly used D300s..it only had 500 shutter actuation's..so Im well happy with it...Im trying to get a kit together..and I just scored a nikon 17-35 F2.8..its FF lenses so it will go well with a D700 if I ever find one im also fortunate enough to own a VR II 70-200 F2.8..that is one very fine lens indeed..coupled with my 1.7X Nikon TC...it is very good at 340mm F4.8

sorry Im rambling
07-12-2011, 03:52 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Well said, Rupert.

Maybe posters (those that frogfish doesn't like) who don't have a K-5 post about K-5 issues not because they don't have one. Maybe it is the other way round. Maybe these posters don't have a K-5 precisely because other people they got to know via the forum and trust their assessment (e.g., falconeye and his low-light AF study) have reported issues.

Frogfish, maybe you didn't mean me personally, but I don't want to pay a considerable amount of money for a camera that has AF low light issues and that I might have to slap hard now and then to get the shutter unstuck or whose battery I need to remove once in a while to stop the mirror from flipping up and down.

I might be lucky and get a good copy, however, given my situation -- I cannot buy locally and just return -- I'd rather wait till some of the issues will be gone (like the stains).

It might be tiring to read posts "knocking the K-5" but it is also tiring to hear the argument "you cannot even take part in a discussion unless you own the equipment". Why would I get some equipment just to be able to say "my K-5 cannot focus properly in low-light" rather than "people I trust (falconeye) have established that the K-5 cannot focus in low light"?

BTW, I agree with you: The K-5 is a superb piece of kit. If I could rely on getting one that worked to specification, I would have bought one already.
I think you are missing out, if those are your reasons. The K5 certainly out performs the K100 in low light settings and the odds of getting a lemon are really quite low (just as they are with the D7000). Furthermore, my experience with Pentax equipment is such that I know that if there is a problem, they will take care of it.
07-12-2011, 04:23 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote

that's why I bought a lightly used D300s..it only had 500 shutter actuation's..so Im well happy with it...Im trying to get a kit together..and I just scored a nikon 17-35 F2.8..its FF lenses so it will go well with a D700 if I ever find one im also fortunate enough to own a VR II 70-200 F2.8..that is one very fine lens indeed..coupled with my 1.7X Nikon TC...it is very good at 340mm F4.8

sorry Im rambling
you`re on a good way I`d say
a good deal is a good deal, I just saw used D700+24-70 this morning on a national used-stuff website for 2300 euro and it`s already gone...and there is also sigma 500/4,5 for nikon offered for 3200 euro...well well got to visit that site a bit less
guess that after launch of D800 there will be lot of good-priced D700`s
07-12-2011, 04:58 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
We are not talking about stains or tungsten light AF that has for most (see the relevant threads) been solved by the lastest firmware release.
Unfortunately, the V1.03 firmware has not fully addressed the low-light AF issue. Falconeye has seen no improvement in his test conditions, some reported slight improvements, others reported new inconsistencies they haven't seen before.

The K-5 certainly does not live up to its "-1 EV" AF specification. That wouldn't concern me much but the fact that slower lenses can cause AF issues in relatively bright light (studio modeling lamps) does concern me.

So, unfortunately, the AF issue is not a thing of the past and may still concern current buyers.

QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Maybe you choose to ignore the vast majority who have no issues ? There must be a few in that group whose opinion you value as well.
I do hear the positive voices as well. So much so that I consider the possibility that there actually is a hardware difference between the K-5s of those people who report problems and those who don't. Unlikely, AFAIC, but I cannot exclude that possibility. It is encouraging that people like you don't have any problems even in challenging situations.

The problem with a positive majority vote is that it is not very reliable. As a matter of fact the majority is not very discriminative and will not observe/report problems that I may take issue with. So just because many K-5 shooters are happy campers doesn't mean that the camera is free of problems.

QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
I can understand that living in NZ you may be hesitant because of the costs involved in returning it. I'm coming over there next Jan /Feb so maybe I'll bring a pre-checked K5 over to you
Sounds good!
Seriously, please keep me posted. I could very well be in the market for a well-kept K-5 in Jan/Feb.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The K5 certainly out performs the K100 in low light settings and the odds of getting a lemon are really quite low (just as they are with the D7000).
You might be right. With its (partly ongoing) teething problems, the K-5 unfortunately wasn't the "must have" camera I wanted it to be. I therefore decided to get an FA 77/1.8 Ltd. first. I'll probably still get a K-5 some time later but as it wasn't the "urgent" purchase I wanted it to be, I'm now happy to wait until the price has come down a bit further.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Furthermore, my experience with Pentax equipment is such that I know that if there is a problem, they will take care of it.
Not my experience. My K100D still has the "Auto-ISO" bug. The K20D and K-7 never received patches for their Hyper-Program ISO bugs either. The K-5's AF issue was only partially addressed and the flash overexposure problem still exists.

Just that there is no misunderstanding: I believe that Pentax DSLRs belong to the best buys out there. I have educated more than one person asking me "Should I get a Canon or a Nikon?" about the existence and virtues of Pentax DSLRs. I recommend the K-5 to many people. I'll most likely get one myself sometime later. If it had been perfect, I would not have been able to withstand its call. As it stands, I can live without one for a bit longer.

07-12-2011, 06:31 AM   #144
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Some things mentioned here in summary......

*Some K5's have bugs
*No K5's have every capability wanted by all shooters.
*Some K5's have almost everything their owner desires and function beautifully for their needs.

Now, name any camera made that you could not make those same statements about?

Personally, having shot with my K5 just enough to see the beauty of it, I would go through a dozen of them if necessary to get the one I have....and it would be worth the effort and hassle. But......then again, it suits my needs absolutely perfectly, and apparently the needs of the vast majority of K5 owners. This is no ordinary camera, and after you use one, it only takes a short time until you realize this is something very special. I would love it if it was a Nikon...or a Canon...or a Sony....but the fact that it is a "lowly Pentax" is just icing on the cake! Lowly? No more, this camera holds its own with anything in its class....or according to most reviews, exceeds them.

Further.....You show me any other camera made that carries the Otis Guarantee, and I will buy it for you!

Right Otis?
[IMG] [/IMG]
Best Regards!
07-12-2011, 02:47 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Now, name any camera made that you could not make those same statements about?
Of course, you are right.

However, the K-5 is not a cheap entry-level model. It is a flagship model with a flagship price. With such a price tag, I expect better than AF problems at EV 3.

Please see Byrd-2020's recent post in which he (a Pentax "fan") explains in a very reasoned manner why he returned his K-5 due to the AF problems.

My K100D's AF is relatively slow. Its RAW buffer is relatively tiny. But for what it was -- an entry level camera with a relatively low price point -- it was/is superb. I don't hold any of its shortcomings against it. AFAIC, it over-delivers.

The K-5 on the other hand was sold around $1500 and cannot focus on a yellow license plate in dim light? In conditions in which the K20D could? As much as I agree with your general "there are always some problems for some people" sentiment, there is something wrong with this picture.
07-13-2011, 06:21 AM   #146
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@ class A - the only constructive comments here - much appreciated:-)

Lastly I never said the K5 in any form or matter was a bad camera.

@rupert - personally I would never go through several of anything to get a "good" copy unless it was going to make me some very good money or if where I had zero other choices.

@frogfish - I do have some Pentax cred having shot with a K10D for over 4 years - my pics with this camera have been used in calenders and magazines - I used this dslr in indoor climbing events alongside 7D, 50D, D300, D3, D3s and never felt intimidated but let the results do the talking.

I have used a 7D, D700 and tested the K7 - I still went back to the K10D

When the K5 was announced I was quite excited but then I was looking seriously at the 7D until the D7000 was announced.

I do belong to the D7000 flickr forum which I find very nice and the ONLY issue that cropped up (it was given its own thread) was the stain issue.

This forum has thread after thread from amateurs and pro's alike raving about this camera - it's what then made me look closer at the D7000 with much angst - as I really wanted to love the K5.

Yet thread after thread in the "K5 Pentax forum" was generally problem orientated and literally zero threads of "stoke" at the time

So like I said I did not want to take the chance or run through several copies - surely that is my prerogative?

Recently I covered a shoot which required 3200, 5.6 at 40sec in a yellowish lit dim conference room - there was me and 16-85, a K5 with the 50-135 - subjects were wearing black outfits - my mate with the K5 (he has a pro tog website) couldn't lock focus - while I was getting shot after shot - which got published - You want to hear swearing - contact my mate;-)

This is a real life experience which vindicated my purchase of the Nikon
11-09-2011, 09:02 AM   #147
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I had all choices and went for the K5 because has a good size and decent primes are available right now. I am happy with f2 primes. Nikon has a great line of f1.4 primes, but they are getting too large. Nikon may replace its f2 primes within the next year - +/- five years. I would rate the K5 higher than the D7000, but I prefer solid features over tech features. You need to handle both cameras and make and check out what you want. There are many good reasons for any system!
11-10-2011, 10:12 AM   #148
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I'v stared to look into the nikon land right after i was shooting with borrowed d3000 (cheapest nikon model - however with the same af system as professional d200) and after use of several pentax model: k100, k10, k20 and k5.... it was enlightenment... no hip-pops no waiting for af decision - just press and shoot. Later on i got in my hands d3 and d700 also borrowed - no comments!!! to say the least: using pentax k5 AF looked like gazing in to the past of AF... 20 years in the past at least. The funny thing is that a had to borrow nikons because my fresh k5 had some issues with the spots on the sensor with the flash etc. If i hadn't get in my hands nikons i would propably be still using k5 and convincing everybody that this is good camera, decent system - the fact is it is not - the best sensor in the market doesn't play the role if you need acurate AF.... In my opinion putting so good sensor into so crapy body is against the nature, its just waist of worldly goods....
11-10-2011, 12:43 PM   #149
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Nikon no doubt as one of the best AF system in the business, but having used the K5 for a while now, I never found myself limited by the AF in the body. I've tried a friend's D700 and yeah, the AF seems a little faster, but accuracy is about the same; the nikon is definitely better with more AF points, but not enough to call the K5's bad. I think you are exaggerating about the K5 AF system being 20 years in the past, 2 years maybe? But 20 years? Like in 1990? And I would never call the K5 body "crappy", it is rated as one of the most durable dslr body ever, the shell is built like a tank; better than the D7000 and on par with a 7D.
11-10-2011, 01:08 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eagle_Friends Quote
but accuracy is about the same
Not in low light.... d700 and k5 is like night and day, and im not talking about continous AF mode. I can agree reg durability built, but so what if one cannot hit the target.... But anyway d700 is like 2.5x more expensive... its comparison aples to oranges....
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