global reviews/tests quality questionable ?

bjan · 01-28-2011, 05:18 AM

The Pentax K5 get a lot of praise and wins comparisons , gold awards and so on.
What does this say about the quality of all this reviews and test when it is clear to K5 users and traders that hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ?

People who had the opportunity to test upto 50 K5`s in a row on the issue state that ALL cams have the same problem.
Is there a rule that misfocussing under artificial light is not important in tets or is the issue not an issue at all and are those that complain nuts ?

What we can learn out of this is most probably that serious bugs are likely not to surface in tests that are commonly recognized as "good" and reliable.
Even the one in this forum did not mention it . I would drop dead if the issue is not existing in the cam the test was done with. (Allike Sean Rieds and DPreveiws cam)
Keep bringing out your commercial tests ladies and gentleman but I will refer to forums like this in which real day to day users post their experiences.

dlacouture · 01-28-2011, 05:51 AM

Just consider how long it took for this problem to be identified and characterized by the pentax community...
Reviewers are not debuggers, and they cannot possibly test everything!
Even official Pentax debuggers cannot test everything, it's just impossible. I know because I'm working in a similar technological environment, and you simply cannot think about every test possible, and frankly sometimes it's just two seemingly unconnected features that produce a bug when enabled at the same time (or disabled, or whatever).

The K5 also have problems when you use wireless flash with distant focus range... Quite strange bug, but I bet it was not in the qualification process of the final firmware... Just think about the huge amount of possibilities between flash modes and focus distance. Then you also have to add lens aperture, exposure comp, drive mode, and a lot of other variables, to have a coherent tests set. We are talking hundreds of combination here, just to check the flash...

But, to agree with you, seeing how this new, more sensitive AF module was touted about, both Pentax and reviewers should have paid more attention.

Smeggypants · 01-28-2011, 06:03 AM

Also remember that 'reviews' can often be politically contaminated. I know this for a fact as the same happens in other industries I have a lot of experience of. becuae iof that I view a 'review' as being of little value and prefer to look at an overall vibe from a bunch of owners anecdotes, like you see in this forum.

FWIW I found the FF fault in low light in my K-5 after owning the camera about 2 hours. Low light photography is my thing.

**Rondec** · 01-28-2011, 07:04 AM

People who do camera reviews have standard tests that they run to test the camera. These are repeated, both for consistency and to expedite the process. If you read the DP Review review, you find that they did dock the K5 some points for focus speed, although they did not pick up on any front focusing issues. At the same time, if most of their shots were done with a kit lens, they wouldn't pick up on it anyway.

Rupert · 01-28-2011, 07:32 AM

In the latest issue of PopPhoto, they noted the low light Focus Problems in the D7000, and I suspect they will note it in the K5 too, if not repaired. Of course, they had a "heads up" by the Nikon users that have also been complaining. We are told that complaining is "whining"....but apparently it is the only way to get Reviewers to look a little closer......can't be a bad thing, can it?
Regards

Wheatfield · 01-28-2011, 07:52 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by bjan

The Pentax K5 get a lot of praise and wins comparisons , gold awards and so on.
What does this say about the quality of all this reviews and test when it is clear to K5 users and traders that hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ?

Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue.
Just sayin.

deadwolfbones · 01-28-2011, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue.
Just sayin.

Agreed 100%.

Gimbal · 01-28-2011, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue.
Just sayin.

Not agreed 100%

bobmaxja · 01-28-2011, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Quote Originally posted by bjan Quote The Pentax K5 get a lot of praise and wins comparisons , gold awards and so on. What does this say about the quality of all this reviews and test when it is clear to K5 users and traders that hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ? Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue. Just sayin.

Agree 100%

Rupert · 01-28-2011, 08:33 AM

Not only not agreed 100%, it is not factual. Denial is not going to lead to a favorable outcome.
Best Regards

betaPhoto · 01-28-2011, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by bjan

...hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ?

People who had the opportunity to test up to 50 K5`s in a row on the issue state that ALL cams have the same problem.

I've read some users claim their K-5 did "not" front focus in low light. I've also read about a few users who claim they sent it in for the FF issue and received back their K-5 and it was fixed.

But, I have yet to see anyones pics showing their K-5 can do it accurately (without there being a reason it worked, i.e. a small light or reflection for the focus sensor to pick up on or it wasn't really low enough light or the assist light came on...)!

qtopplings · 01-28-2011, 09:33 AM

Awesome. Another hysterical bash Pentax thread. Can we beat this dead horse some more, please?

betaPhoto · 01-28-2011, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by qtopplings

Awesome. Another hysterical bash Pentax thread. Can we beat this dead horse some more, please?

Can your K-5 focus accurately with the following parameters:
* EV2 & EV3 area (as well as EV 8 or so for accuracy comparison) (EV1-EV4 is sighted as the main trouble).
* The focus distance should be between 2 and 5 feet (.5-1.5 meters) where the problem is quite pronounced.
* The f-stop should be f2.0 to f2.8.

If it can, show people some shots of it. End the hysteria by showing the K-5 can be capable of low light focus accuracy!

qtopplings · 01-28-2011, 09:51 AM

Actually, I don't really care. This issue has been brought up enough, do we really need ANOTHER thread?

dlacouture · 01-28-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by betaPhoto

Can your K-5 focus accurately with the following parameters:
* EV2 & EV3 area (as well as EV 8 or so for accuracy comparison) (EV1-EV4 is sighted as the main trouble).
* The focus distance should be between 2 and 5 feet (.5-1.5 meters) where the problem is quite pronounced.
* The f-stop should be f2.0 to f2.8.

If it can, show people some shots of it. End the hysteria by showing the K-5 can be capable of low light focus accuracy!

I've just spent the whole week doing tests just like this (I'm on sick leave, so I have plenty of time to kill!)...

With my FA50/1.4, my K5 focuses quite well until EV1. Below that, it's hit & miss and it will really lock on contrasty edges only, right until EV-1 (but it often ends up with a blinking hexagon instead of a FF).

At the start I noticed FF in low-light situations, but after a careful fine-tuning of my lenses, and the v1.02.21.10 upgrade (don't know if it has an effect!), I can't see it anymore. I disabled the AF assist lamp too, as I found it really disturbing for my subjects, so maybe it has an effect too.

01-28-2011, 05:18 AM	#1
bjan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 116	global reviews/tests quality questionable ? The Pentax K5 get a lot of praise and wins comparisons , gold awards and so on. What does this say about the quality of all this reviews and test when it is clear to K5 users and traders that hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ? People who had the opportunity to test upto 50 K5`s in a row on the issue state that ALL cams have the same problem. Is there a rule that misfocussing under artificial light is not important in tets or is the issue not an issue at all and are those that complain nuts ? What we can learn out of this is most probably that serious bugs are likely not to surface in tests that are commonly recognized as "good" and reliable. Even the one in this forum did not mention it . I would drop dead if the issue is not existing in the cam the test was done with. (Allike Sean Rieds and DPreveiws cam) Keep bringing out your commercial tests ladies and gentleman but I will refer to forums like this in which real day to day users post their experiences.

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01-28-2011, 05:51 AM	#2
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Just consider how long it took for this problem to be identified and characterized by the pentax community... Reviewers are not debuggers, and they cannot possibly test everything! Even official Pentax debuggers cannot test everything, it's just impossible. I know because I'm working in a similar technological environment, and you simply cannot think about every test possible, and frankly sometimes it's just two seemingly unconnected features that produce a bug when enabled at the same time (or disabled, or whatever). The K5 also have problems when you use wireless flash with distant focus range... Quite strange bug, but I bet it was not in the qualification process of the final firmware... Just think about the huge amount of possibilities between flash modes and focus distance. Then you also have to add lens aperture, exposure comp, drive mode, and a lot of other variables, to have a coherent tests set. We are talking hundreds of combination here, just to check the flash... But, to agree with you, seeing how this new, more sensitive AF module was touted about, both Pentax and reviewers should have paid more attention.

01-28-2011, 06:03 AM	#3
Smeggypants Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,536	Also remember that 'reviews' can often be politically contaminated. I know this for a fact as the same happens in other industries I have a lot of experience of. becuae iof that I view a 'review' as being of little value and prefer to look at an overall vibe from a bunch of owners anecdotes, like you see in this forum. FWIW I found the FF fault in low light in my K-5 after owning the camera about 2 hours. Low light photography is my thing.

01-28-2011, 07:04 AM	#4
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	People who do camera reviews have standard tests that they run to test the camera. These are repeated, both for consistency and to expedite the process. If you read the DP Review review, you find that they did dock the K5 some points for focus speed, although they did not pick up on any front focusing issues. At the same time, if most of their shots were done with a kit lens, they wouldn't pick up on it anyway.

01-28-2011, 07:32 AM	#5
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	In the latest issue of PopPhoto, they noted the low light Focus Problems in the D7000, and I suspect they will note it in the K5 too, if not repaired. Of course, they had a "heads up" by the Nikon users that have also been complaining. We are told that complaining is "whining"....but apparently it is the only way to get Reviewers to look a little closer......can't be a bad thing, can it? Regards

01-28-2011, 07:52 AM - 1 Like	#6
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by bjan The Pentax K5 get a lot of praise and wins comparisons , gold awards and so on. What does this say about the quality of all this reviews and test when it is clear to K5 users and traders that hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ? Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue. Just sayin.

01-28-2011, 08:13 AM	#7
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	Originally posted by Wheatfield Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue. Just sayin. Agreed 100%.

01-28-2011, 08:17 AM	#8
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by Wheatfield Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue. Just sayin. Not agreed 100%

01-28-2011, 08:28 AM	#9
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	Originally posted by Wheatfield Quote Originally posted by bjan Quote The Pentax K5 get a lot of praise and wins comparisons , gold awards and so on. What does this say about the quality of all this reviews and test when it is clear to K5 users and traders that hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ? Maybe it means that it is something that has been incredibly blown out of proportion by a few members on this forum who take pleasure in whipping up a frenzy of hysteria and that for most people it is a non issue. Just sayin. Agree 100%

01-28-2011, 08:33 AM	#10
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Not only not agreed 100%, it is not factual. Denial is not going to lead to a favorable outcome. Best Regards

01-28-2011, 09:27 AM	#11
betaPhoto Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis, MN Photos: Gallery Posts: 129	Originally posted by bjan ...hardly 1 not dramatic front focussiing sample can be found around the globe ? People who had the opportunity to test up to 50 K5`s in a row on the issue state that ALL cams have the same problem. I've read some users claim their K-5 did "not" front focus in low light. I've also read about a few users who claim they sent it in for the FF issue and received back their K-5 and it was fixed. But, I have yet to see anyones pics showing their K-5 can do it accurately (without there being a reason it worked, i.e. a small light or reflection for the focus sensor to pick up on or it wasn't really low enough light or the assist light came on...)!

01-28-2011, 09:33 AM	#12
qtopplings Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Marin, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 282	Awesome. Another hysterical bash Pentax thread. Can we beat this dead horse some more, please?

01-28-2011, 09:43 AM	#13
betaPhoto Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis, MN Photos: Gallery Posts: 129	Originally posted by qtopplings Awesome. Another hysterical bash Pentax thread. Can we beat this dead horse some more, please? Can your K-5 focus accurately with the following parameters: * EV2 & EV3 area (as well as EV 8 or so for accuracy comparison) (EV1-EV4 is sighted as the main trouble). * The focus distance should be between 2 and 5 feet (.5-1.5 meters) where the problem is quite pronounced. * The f-stop should be f2.0 to f2.8. If it can, show people some shots of it. End the hysteria by showing the K-5 can be capable of low light focus accuracy!

01-28-2011, 09:51 AM	#14
qtopplings Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Marin, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 282	Actually, I don't really care. This issue has been brought up enough, do we really need ANOTHER thread?

01-28-2011, 09:56 AM	#15
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Originally posted by betaPhoto Can your K-5 focus accurately with the following parameters: * EV2 & EV3 area (as well as EV 8 or so for accuracy comparison) (EV1-EV4 is sighted as the main trouble). * The focus distance should be between 2 and 5 feet (.5-1.5 meters) where the problem is quite pronounced. * The f-stop should be f2.0 to f2.8. If it can, show people some shots of it. End the hysteria by showing the K-5 can be capable of low light focus accuracy! I've just spent the whole week doing tests just like this (I'm on sick leave, so I have plenty of time to kill!)... With my FA50/1.4, my K5 focuses quite well until EV1. Below that, it's hit & miss and it will really lock on contrasty edges only, right until EV-1 (but it often ends up with a blinking hexagon instead of a FF). At the start I noticed FF in low-light situations, but after a careful fine-tuning of my lenses, and the v1.02.21.10 upgrade (don't know if it has an effect!), I can't see it anymore. I disabled the AF assist lamp too, as I found it really disturbing for my subjects, so maybe it has an effect too.