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02-01-2011, 06:28 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I think they call them Fanboys? I can recall the leader of the pack that never had a problem with any product ever made by Pentax for his many years of Pentax shooting. Everything was always "User Error", anything else was just ridiculed and he was joined by his Chorus of Singing Fanboys with Flamethrowers in hand. He was rewarded by Pentax, some say, although I think he was not as interested in rewards as in his own infallibility.
Then one day, he just up and jumped ship, leaving all that perfect Pentax gear in the dust and heading to Nikon, taking many of his Choir Boys with him. For those wanting Pentax to improve its QC and give us what the Specifications indicate, it would have been better if he had taken all the Fanboys with him. He did us no favors, witness the SDM situation, where he led the charge of "User Error" and the issue is to this day not addressed by Pentax. Perhaps the K5 would have fewer problems today if the SDM failures had sent a message that users won't tolerate defective products? Fanboys make a lot of noise, defend to the death, but do the majority of shooters no favors at all.....witness the K5. A great camera, full of the most wanted items in a camera, but lacking in the area of QC to a point that sullies its reputation and creates animosity among Pentax users.

Happy customers that get what they pay for....why is that such an alien concept here?
Best Regards
Amen!

You know, said "choir leader" and his "band of merry men" are a big reason I became sick of coming hear about 8 months ago. He just left a really bad taste in my mouth. I never responded to him, tried to ignore him, but his posts were everywhere. Reminded me of listening to Nancy Pelosi or Tom Delay, just get me out of here - shut it off... Good riddance.

Thanks for the note on the defection!

Pentax needs to step up to the plate and give its best.
*Fix the front focus issue,
*close the gap on auto-focus speed to nearly zero,
*make correct flash exposure automatic/thoughtless,
*keep improving its exposure accuracy,
And then after these hurdles have been overcome, release a Full-Frame (I don't need it, but some do)!

If these attributes existed on a Pentax, why would I ever want a Nikon...

02-01-2011, 07:43 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by betaPhoto Quote
Amen!

You know, said "choir leader" and his "band of merry men" are a big reason I became sick of coming hear about 8 months ago. He just left a really bad taste in my mouth. I never responded to him, tried to ignore him, but his posts were everywhere. Reminded me of listening to Nancy Pelosi or Tom Delay, just get me out of here - shut it off... Good riddance.

Thanks for the note on the defection!

Pentax needs to step up to the plate and give its best.
*Fix the front focus issue,
*close the gap on auto-focus speed to nearly zero,
*make correct flash exposure automatic/thoughtless,
*keep improving its exposure accuracy,
And then after these hurdles have been overcome, release a Full-Frame (I don't need it, but some do)!

If these attributes existed on a Pentax, why would I ever want a Nikon...

A lot of people are turned off by raving Fanboys that live in a constant state of denial and want to bully anyone that has a real problem with their equipment. One leaves and another pops up, such as JTHOMMO, that has at other sites taken great pleasure in replacing Lance as a blind loyalist with little or no concern for anyone else if they encounter disabling defects. They claim to be supportive, but in reality they hurt us all, as in the case of Lance and SDM where they hammer away at any negatives until they silence the opposition. More like fanatical tyrants than loyal fans, they do a disservice to all that want to see a wrong righted, and a commitment to bringing better and more dependable products to the loyal as well as the new user. They are proud flamethrowers, when in fact their actions are shameful, knowing that the defects they deny are in fact real.
Best Regards!
02-01-2011, 07:49 PM   #138
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cause is not defined

QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
But some of the stains I see with the K5 on this thread certainly give me cause for concern. I was thinking of eventually getting a K5...but I don't know..will have to see if this continues to be an issue.

But as the sensor is made by Sony...wouldn't that QC also be a Sony issue...also maybe a Nikon 7000 problem as I think this sensor is also used in that model.

Could be wrong, open to clarification.
Just to throw in my two cents, with all these illustrious posters here, I also been looking at saving money for a K-5, so I started reading details about the cause and what consumers need to do. First, the exact cause is only theorized because Pentax is being tight-lipped, except for leaks from Pentax-Europe, who voiced details about excess solvent in the sensor/AA assembly - which evaporates when heated using LiveView or video + Falk Lumo's testing. Whether it is Sony's fault (manufacturing) or Pentax's fault (assembly), it is only important for consumers to be vocal about getting a fix (which is now happening - yea!). Details like this are not on any magazine/press release, so I think forums like this can assuage fears by publishing and repeating the info now and then. Second, some consumers have been returning affected cameras (with stain) to retail dealers, who sometimes just repackage and sell as new again. Good thing to check the serial# database on this forum - date of manufacture needs to be after Calendar Week 49, 2010. Third, in my opinion, it is an important missed opportunity if knowledgeable forum members blow-off the concerns of the "weak and uninformed". Customer service begins at home, not just a public face for PR purposes. Just my 2 pennies......

If you want the link to the German web site, let me know. I think I posted it on the thread that was shutdown last week because people were flaming each other.........

Sorry for the late reply. Just came home from work, survived driving through the Blizzard of 2011. Have a nice evening all, going to sleep.....
02-01-2011, 09:19 PM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
A lot of people are turned off by raving Fanboys that live in a constant state of denial and want to bully anyone that has a real problem with their equipment. One leaves and another pops up, such as JTHOMMO, that has at other sites taken great pleasure in replacing Lance as a blind loyalist with little or no concern for anyone else if they encounter disabling defects. They claim to be supportive, but in reality they hurt us all, as in the case of Lance and SDM where they hammer away at any negatives until they silence the opposition. More like fanatical tyrants than loyal fans, they do a disservice to all that want to see a wrong righted, and a commitment to bringing better and more dependable products to the loyal as well as the new user. They are proud flamethrowers, when in fact their actions are shameful, knowing that the defects they deny are in fact real.
Best Regards!
Simply put why make yourself to be a fool to believe anyone posting on the internet, whether you want to classify as a fanboy, a critic or even your good friends. Why put your faith and trust with complete strangers who can and often do get it wrong. At least people whom you call fanboys ACTUALLY OWN AND USE A K-5. If you can't believe even half of what they rave about and are still full of doubt and unsure if this is the camera for you, then stop the incessant whining and complaining and don't waste your time about the K-5. Don't give us any more mumbo jumbo about righting supposed wrongs and platitudes about commitment to bringing better and more dependable products. When was the last time Pentax actually solicited feedback from you or me for that matter?

Sure there's free speech on the net but if you don't even own a K-5 so far, your comments on the issues are pretty hollow to say the least. Some might go so far to make the case that your posts on this issue are more like an agent provocateur or even a troll. It's one thing to give actual owner feedback and another to be a sour grape on the sidelines. Bottomline if you don't feel confident about the product then don't get your feet wet and don't even consider the K-5 because nobody can give you any ironclad guarantee that it won't be a "lemon".

I was an early K-5 adopter. I like my K-5, even though it had the sensor stains. I didn't need to kick a fuss because I got mine fixed by Pentax Japan through my fantastic local agent a month ago. If in your words that makes me a fanboy living in a constant state of denial, then let me say I definitely deserve my lot and have to suffer the excellent results I seem to get from it.


Last edited by creampuff; 02-02-2011 at 12:51 AM.
02-01-2011, 10:45 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Simply put why make yourself to be a fool to believe anyone posting on the internet, whether it you want to classify as a fanboy, a critic or even your good friends. Why put your faith and trust with complete strangers who can and often do get it wrong. At least people whom you call fanboys ACTUALLY OWN AND USE A K-5. If you can't believe even half of what they rave about and are still full of doubt and unsure if this is the camera for you, then stop the incessant whining and complaining and don't waste your time about the K-5. Don't give us any more mumbo jumbo about righting supposed wrongs and platitudes about commitment to bringing better and more dependable products. When was the last time Pentax actually solicited feedback from you or me for that matter?

Sure there's free speech on the net but if you don't even own a K-5 so far, your comments on the issues are pretty hollow to say the least. Some might go so far to make the case that your posts on this issue are more like an agent provocateur or even a troll. It's one thing to give actual owner feedback and another to be a sour grape on the sidelines. Bottomline if you don't feel confident about the product then don't get your feet wet and don't even consider the K-5 because nobody can give you any ironclad guarantee that it won't be a "lemon".

I was an early K-5 adopter. I like my K-5, even though it had the sensor stains. I didn't need to kick a fuss because I got mine fixed by Pentax Japan through my fantastic local agent a month ago. If in your words that makes me a fanboy living in a constant state of denial, then let me say I definitely deserve my lot and have to suffer the excellent results I seem to get from it.
Well, you obviously don't read the posts of others that strongly disagree with your view. You can start with the last couple of posters that can appreciate the quest for more information and better products. No one, not that I have seen anywhere on this Forum wants to deny you your pleasure in your K5....if you can point out differently, please do so. Posters here want to be as happy as you are, but that does not mean accepting a defective product. Now I have no way of knowing what the state of your K5 is, and I trust that you are honest, and it is excellent. Why is it so hard for you to trust that many other well qualified shooters don't have the same experience? That does not seem fair and reasonable to me? This "User Error" gets pretty old when you are talking of shooters with many years of experience, and is an insult to their ability and integrity, doesn't that bother you in the least?
As for non K5 owners, most of us have stated we want the K5 as soon as it is cleared of the current problems, and having many thousands of dollars invested in Pentax equipment, we have every right to voice our concerns, despite a few Fanboys howling like stuck pigs when we ask for a camera that delivers to its specifications.
As said before, Denial is not a river in Egypt...and you know what happens in Egypt.

Best Regards

Last edited by Rupert; 02-01-2011 at 11:07 PM.
02-02-2011, 12:16 AM   #141
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QuoteQuote:
As for non K5 owners, most of us have stated we want the K5
If you don't have one or haven't used one, how can you give opinions?
02-02-2011, 12:41 AM   #142
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Well Rupert, it is pretty laughable when you make offhand claims that I don't read the posts of others who strongly disagree with my views.

I've got thousands of dollars on Pentax and other camera gear too and I'm fortunate to know many Pentax K-5 users in person, some of whom have invested a lot more and yet they in no way are as rabidly vociferous of the supposed issues as you post here.

No one is denying anything but you stretch the argument when you proclaim the camera to be a defective when you do not even have firsthand knowledge of it. I can at least understand if K-5 users have somehow got issues with their cameras because they experience it in person. Pentax has already come out openly on the sensor stains and free service but it appears that even this is not enough to assuage you.

The argument about having many years of experience shooting proves very little. One can be a film shooter for decades but struggle when transitioning to digital. More experience means you've been shooting longer but it doesn't equate that one is anywhere more proficient. There are plenty of new shooters on this and other forums who only started shooting very recently and who have excelled in the craft.

Thank you for telling me that I'm in denial, at least I'm not feeling delusional.

Last edited by creampuff; 02-02-2011 at 12:58 AM.
02-02-2011, 12:41 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
At least people whom you call fanboys ACTUALLY OWN AND USE A K-5... stop the incessant whining and complaining and don't waste your time about the K-5. Don't give us any more mumbo jumbo about righting supposed wrongs and platitudes about commitment to bringing better and more dependable products. When was the last time Pentax actually solicited feedback from you or me for that matter?

Sure there's free speech on the net but if you don't even own a K-5 so far, your comments on the issues are pretty hollow to say the least. Some might go so far to make the case that your posts on this issue are more like an agent provocateur or even a troll.
Rupert a troll? A harsh judgment....but I fear you might be right.


Last edited by jthommo; 02-02-2011 at 12:56 AM.
02-02-2011, 01:03 AM   #144
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I personally dont understand why Rupert is the evangelist for the Pentax bashers. The issues have been well established, but it's interesting that the biggest complainers don't even OWN the K-5! Rupert, if you think the K-5 is a lemon, don't buy it. Or wait for the issues to get fixed. In the meantime, no one needs you to be the mouthpiece for those that think they deserve anything more that they would get with any other consumer product. All things have issues; Toyota cars is a perfect example of a manufacturer with a stellar record having major issues. pentax is fixing the cameras and retailers are exchanging cameras. No one is getting ripped off. No one is forcing you to buy the camera! These repetitive threads are getting ridiculous. I come here to learn and share in the JOY of photography, but lately almost every thread is a bunch of whiny crybabies that are way too entitled for their own good. It's annoying.
02-02-2011, 01:30 AM   #145
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Here is a perfect example: Intel Discovers Bug in 6-Series Chipset: Our Analysis - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

Intel is recalling motherboard at a cost of hundreds of millions! Oh my God! Intel's QC sucks! How dare they ship a product with some bugs, and then acknowledge the problem and offer a replacement? I'll never buy another PC again! They're all lemons! I'm paying good money for this! I expect perfection and a reacharound, or I'm going to complain on the Internet about a product I don't own, and have no direct knowledge about!
02-02-2011, 01:33 AM   #146
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rupert, i think you've got a conundrum. i understand why you may be hesitant in getting a K-5 with the issues. and on the other hand, since you don't have the K-5, a whole lotta folks here, don't want you posting anything. well, i have a K-5.....and i appreciate your concerns

-raph
02-02-2011, 01:57 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by qtopplings Quote
I personally dont understand why Rupert is the evangelist for the Pentax bashers. The issues have been well established, but it's interesting that the biggest complainers don't even OWN the K-5! Rupert, if you think the K-5 is a lemon, don't buy it.
No, Rupert you don't actually have to buy it.
02-02-2011, 02:03 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
For those wanting Pentax to improve its QC and give us what the Specifications indicate
Best Regards
I will probably get rounded on by the "lemon callers" for this post.
I do not deny that there is a problem with FF in some low light conditions. Mine has a slight FF in low light tungsten conditions, but it is conditions which i would never be taking photos with out a flash. So to me it is not a big problem.

As a point of interest Rupert, which of Pentax's stated specifications are we not getting. I did not see anything about guaranteeing perfect focus in all lighting conditions and aperture settings.

Peter
02-02-2011, 02:16 AM   #149
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K-5 still is one heck of a camera....

low light focusing is always kinda hit or miss, esp if it's artificial lighting. but the K-5 is one heck of a camera still. here's something hand held at 50mm, 1/13s @ f/2.8 @ ISO 3200. i took the RAW file out and saved as a TIFF to edit in photoshop cs2--quick auto contrast + auto color. the tokina at-x 28-70mm f/2.8 focused alright just for a second there, look at image conditions. 1/13s handheld at 50mm and ISO 3200. coming from my film days....this always amazes me. i've never done it, but to achieve similar results with film, you'll have to get ISO 800 portra, and do two push processing--expensive and definitely not instant! so while i'm a little disheartened that the K-5 is less than perfect, it is an EXCEPTIONAL camera

-raph

p.s. not sure if anyone wants to look, but i have a bunch more pics here on my facebook (i don't mind y'all lookin' thru my stuff, i've got nothing to hide ) Mission San Luis Obispo de Tolosa | Facebook i shot in RAW+, so these were the JPG's that were generated with the camera on pretty much full auto.
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02-02-2011, 02:26 AM   #150
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QuoteQuote:
I do not deny that there is a problem with FF in some low light conditions.

Well for years (until DSLRs?) we only had manual focus anyway. Have we got too lazy relying on A/F? I use M/F as much as I use A/F.
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