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| 02-02-2011, 02:38 AM | #151 |
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when i had the PZ-1p....it had only one single focus point, and yep, it was called SAFOX II. it needed good light to achieve focus, but when it got focus, it was bang on! i would gaze with jealousy at my canon and nikon pals (and in those days, minolta too, now sony) with their multi-AF. but that didn't stop me from shooting around. i shot some motorsports, weddings, stuff that required fast AF--but mostly did it in MF  i picked up a little gem of an MX, and yep, full manual focus. the thing with newer cams, is the bright viewfinder. if i remember correctly, these viewfinders aren't exactly the best for using manual focus (contrast?) i've heard of folks putting in different focusing screens, but that sounds like the exception, rather than the norm. so MF with these DSLRs out of the box is pretty hard--i've tried with my K-5 to some success. but you're right.....maybe i go back to MF  -raph | |
| 02-02-2011, 02:53 AM | #152 |
| 02-02-2011, 02:53 AM | #153 |
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Back in the day I took a lot of motorsport (circuit & rally) pics with my (film) Pentax KM & Tamron 125 & 200 fixed length telephotos. It required very active M/F to get good shots! The ease of using A/F these days is making people soft! For example:  | |
| 02-02-2011, 03:06 AM | #154 |
| 02-02-2011, 03:23 AM | #155 |
 Originally posted by Rupert  we have every right to voice our concerns Let me repeat again: discussing issues, voicing concerns in an appropriate way is fine, that's why we have forums. I did the same when I found the stains, hot-shoe flash and tungsten low light FF issue affecting my first K-5. But did you see dozens of whining posts from me, trying to make hysteria every day? No. Voicing my concerns one time and answering questions or adding more info later was enough, because I knew that childish crying wouldn't solve anything, it would just make me look like a stupid crybaby. And believe me, I was very angry because of the issues and how Pentax and the local service was managing it. So really, what's the point of the never ending whining that some people do on a daily level? When I joined this forum approx 2 years ago it was a very good place. Now I can't say the same, too much hysteria, childish acting, name calling, personal attacks, etc... | |
| 02-02-2011, 03:52 AM | #156 |
| 02-02-2011, 04:46 AM | #157 |
| 02-02-2011, 05:56 AM - 1 Like | #158 |
| Originally posted by Ivor K Ecks I do not deny that there is a problem with FF in some low light conditions. Mine has a slight FF in low light tungsten conditions, but it is conditions which i would never be taking photos with out a flash. So to me it is not a big problem. | |
| 02-02-2011, 07:39 AM | #159 |
| 02-02-2011, 08:24 AM | #160 |
| Originally posted by Rupert ... Do we have any word from Pentax that they are even interested in a fix for FF? Not a peep. ... cheers, | |
| 02-02-2011, 08:39 AM | #161 |
| Originally posted by Rupert Stifle those that are demanding a product that meets its specifications, flame them, call them trolls. These are typical Fanboy tactics. Just let it all die down, and Pentax will "Do the Right Thing"? How did that work out for SDM? Do we have any word from Pentax that they are even interested in a fix for FF? Not a peep. Nikon, with similar problems has announced an intention to develop a fix.......but we are told that is not how Japanese Companies work? Maybe that is not how Hoya works? This FF issue is two months old, if it was going to be addressed, we would have heard something....you think? No, if the Fanboys are successful many will be shooting a low light camera that won't focus in low light, with a SDM lens that wont AF at all....and Fanboys will be celebrating another victory at keeping Petax in the Lemon section of the few remaining Retail outlets that will carry them. Regards The stains on the other hand has been acknowledged and a solution is presented, I'm not worried about it one bit. | |
| 02-02-2011, 08:57 AM | #162 |
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A little background on why all this seems a little over the top: Originally posted by Rupert Stifle those that are demanding a product that meets its specifications, flame them, call them trolls. These are typical Fanboy tactics. Just let it all die down, and Pentax will "Do the Right Thing"? How did that work out for SDM? Do we have any word from Pentax that they are even interested in a fix for FF? Not a peep. Nikon, with similar problems has announced an intention to develop a fix.......but we are told that is not how Japanese Companies work? Maybe that is not how Hoya works? This FF issue is two months old, if it was going to be addressed, we would have heard something....you think? No, if the Fanboys are successful many will be shooting a low light camera that won't focus in low light, with a SDM lens that wont AF at all....and Fanboys will be celebrating another victory at keeping Petax in the Lemon section of the few remaining Retail outlets that will carry them. Regards Originally posted by Rupert Stifle those that are demanding a product that meets its specifications, flame them, call them trolls. These are typical Fanboy tactics. Just let it all die down, and Pentax will "Do the Right Thing"? How did that work out for SDM? Do we have any word from Pentax that they are even interested in a fix for FF? Not a peep. Nikon, with similar problems has announced an intention to develop a fix.......but we are told that is not how Japanese Companies work? Maybe that is not how Hoya works? This FF issue is two months old, if it was going to be addressed, we would have heard something....you think? No, if the Fanboys are successful many will be shooting a low light camera that won't focus in low light, with a SDM lens that wont AF at all....and Fanboys will be celebrating another victory at keeping Petax in the Lemon section of the few remaining Retail outlets that will carry them. Regards Originally posted by Rupert Well, you obviously don't read the posts of others that strongly disagree with your view. You can start with the last couple of posters that can appreciate the quest for more information and better products. No one, not that I have seen anywhere on this Forum wants to deny you your pleasure in your K5....if you can point out differently, please do so. Posters here want to be as happy as you are, but that does not mean accepting a defective product. Now I have no way of knowing what the state of your K5 is, and I trust that you are honest, and it is excellent. Why is it so hard for you to trust that many other well qualified shooters don't have the same experience? That does not seem fair and reasonable to me? This "User Error" gets pretty old when you are talking of shooters with many years of experience, and is an insult to their ability and integrity, doesn't that bother you in the least? As for non K5 owners, most of us have stated we want the K5 as soon as it is cleared of the current problems, and having many thousands of dollars invested in Pentax equipment, we have every right to voice our concerns, despite a few Fanboys howling like stuck pigs when we ask for a camera that delivers to its specifications. As said before, Denial is not a river in Egypt...and you know what happens in Egypt. Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert A lot of people are turned off by raving Fanboys that live in a constant state of denial and want to bully anyone that has a real problem with their equipment. One leaves and another pops up, such as JTHOMMO, that has at other sites taken great pleasure in replacing Lance as a blind loyalist with little or no concern for anyone else if they encounter disabling defects. They claim to be supportive, but in reality they hurt us all, as in the case of Lance and SDM where they hammer away at any negatives until they silence the opposition. More like fanatical tyrants than loyal fans, they do a disservice to all that want to see a wrong righted, and a commitment to bringing better and more dependable products to the loyal as well as the new user. They are proud flamethrowers, when in fact their actions are shameful, knowing that the defects they deny are in fact real. Best Regards! Originally posted by Rupert Maybe we can reach a point where we all get on the same page? Some of us are making enemies here, on both sides of the debate, and that is a shame, since we should all be wanting the best for all shooters. If you have a perfect K5 or don't, we should all want the same great experience for every buyer...... old shooter or new. A unified message to Pentax is our best hope of obtaining that goal. I'm hanging in there for a solution, and so are many others. This can be overcome, but we need to be united in our quest for a repair and not accept the same stonewalling as happened with SDM lenses. If my brother is hungry, so am I. Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert I think they call them Fanboys? I can recall the leader of the pack that never had a problem with any product ever made by Pentax for his many years of Pentax shooting. Everything was always "User Error", anything else was just ridiculed and he was joined by his Chorus of Singing Fanboys with Flamethrowers in hand. He was rewarded by Pentax, some say, although I think he was not as interested in rewards as in his own infallibility. Then one day, he just up and jumped ship, leaving all that perfect Pentax gear in the dust and heading to Nikon, taking many of his Choir Boys with him. For those wanting Pentax to improve its QC and give us what the Specifications indicate, it would have been better if he had taken all the Fanboys with him. He did us no favors, witness the SDM situation, where he led the charge of "User Error" and the issue is to this day not addressed by Pentax. Perhaps the K5 would have fewer problems today if the SDM failures had sent a message that users won't tolerate defective products? Fanboys make a lot of noise, defend to the death, but do the majority of shooters no favors at all.....witness the K5. A great camera, full of the most wanted items in a camera, but lacking in the area of QC to a point that sullies its reputation and creates animosity among Pentax users. Happy customers that get what they pay for....why is that such an alien concept here? Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert I see a few, and they are few, that have what they at least claim are perfect K5's. By perfect, I mean they operate as specified by Pentax. Now I have no idea if they are indeed "Perfect" because their replies here indicate that we should be willing to accept inferior products in the name of "Progress". Maybe that is what they did and they want everyone else to do the same? They don't seem to want a survey of who has FF problems and who doesn't.......because they are the only Shooters to be qualified to answer that question, all the others, even long time Pro Shooters just don't know what they are doing. A guy with 20+ years of experience sends back 2, 3, 4 cameras? Has he done this with every camera for over 20 years? Denial is a disease, and a lot here have a bad case of it. There are people out there, loyal Pentax shooters with major FF problems, and all they want is a repair or a notice that one is being prepared. There are others, like me that have thousands of dollars in Pentax gear that are anxious to buy the K5, but don't want to play Shipping Roulette. Those are being told that since we don't have the K5 we have no say. Which side do we believe? Well, it isn't the side where a shooter with a "Perfect" K5 admits he will send it back as soon as there is a repair for the Non-Existent focus issue. I suspect he is not alone in his group of deniers. I still have a hard time understanding how a person can be wrong in asking to get what he paid for, but reading these threads that is exactly what I hear over and over. If that is reasonable or logical, then we have a larger problem than just a defective camera. Regards Originally posted by Rupert Don't blame us, in a tiny nation of 300+ Million people, there are probably less that a dozen places where you can hold a K5 in your hands, take test shots, and try it for yourself. As long as the problem goes unresolved and without a response from Pentax you can bet your Wallaby it will keep on coming. Some people are just so stubborn....they want what they paid for....imagine that! Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert Mr Don is just venting his frustrations, like many here have done, and many more exhibit in their own privacy. The word I find most appropriate is "Disappointed". No use beating Wheatfields Dead Horse but no use in trying to hide the horse either. How this all works out is yet to be determined, and there can be little doubt that it is not helping sales of the K5 or Pentax in general. Every Dealer that is having to handle these returns and unhappy buyers is making notes and will be even more reluctant to handle the Pentax Brand in the future. There is no point in denying the negatives all this commotion has brought to Pentax, and Mr Don is just one voice of many that fills the vapors of the Internet. Hoya needs to step up and respond with a positive message, and their continued failure to do so is only making matters worse. Maybe they don't have one? Silence is Golden? Not in the Marketplace. Anyhow, I am not defending Mr Don....he is a long time Squirrel Hater, and if you guys can catch him and flame him into eternity, my Squirrels will be forever grateful! Best Regards! Originally posted by Rupert Those with "relatively minor issues" are doing very little posting here. When you are FF at 5 feet in front of the target, I hardly think that is minor. I would be just as concerned if those with fine functioning K5's were called "relatively few"....wouldn't you agree? Continuous denial of a real problem never makes it go away, but it does tend to make it grow. Witness this Forum. Regards Originally posted by Rupert I'm still scratching my head wondering why someone would send their camera back for another for "such a minor issue"" That seems to defy logic? Sending a camera back and playing Russian Roulette is no fun, ask those on their 3rd, 4th, 5th, cameras. To submit that most FF issues are of the tiny MM type is also misleading, and a seasoned shooter with decades of experience does not need a test to spot FF or BF any more than a Weatherman needs a rain gauge to know when he is standing in a rainstorm. I love my Pentax gear, have no desire to see it fail any more than the others that have years of Pentax satisfaction, and tons of Pentax gear, but denial of a noted problem is never going to benefit any of us. I just want to buy a K5, it is a great camera and exactly what I want....but I want it to work as specified. I think that is all anyone here wants? What else is there? Do not confuse those here with real problems with Ricehigh, we all know his motivations, and that is not what we have here.....we have mostly loyal Pentaxians wanting a fix for their problems. How is that wrong or a bad thing? Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert Not only not agreed 100%, it is not factual. Denial is not going to lead to a favorable outcome. Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert In the latest issue of PopPhoto, they noted the low light Focus Problems in the D7000, and I suspect they will note it in the K5 too, if not repaired. Of course, they had a "heads up" by the Nikon users that have also been complaining. We are told that complaining is "whining"....but apparently it is the only way to get Reviewers to look a little closer......can't be a bad thing, can it? Regards Originally posted by Rupert I have known Al for a long time...when he speaks, I listen, and I know him to be a great Pentax shooter, and an honest man. Take a look for yourself, this is not an inexperienced beginner. Flickr: AReidJr's Photostream Likewise, I know a few others that have no FF problems, and I also find them to be honest and well qualified to state their findings. Flickr: jthommo101's Photostream So why is it we are at war with each other here? We are all in that same ship, and should all pull together to get this resolved, and if we are not heard as a group, it will not be addressed, everyone knows that the "squeaking wheel gets the grease". I find it interesting that Pop Photo,in their D7000 review listed poor focus in low light as a minus and I suspect that the K5 will receive the same unless this is resolved. To have a low light capable camera, that won't focus in low light is not acceptable, whether it is a K5 or a D7000. You can bet that Nikon is hearing about this too. They also reported the Canon D60 was better at low light shooting and did not have focus issues. I am not plugging Canon...I had rather have a MF Pentax than a fully functional Canon......but they apparently did get it right, I can't deny. Finally, no, I do not own a K5, but instead of gloating that some complainers don't even have the K5, you might consider why they don't. There are scores of us that do not want to go through 2-5 returns or send a new $1500 camera to Pentax for repairs that might take weeks. No one buys a new camera with the anticipation that they have to send it back to the factory for the Mfg to "finish building it". You can call us what you want, but we won't be boxing up and sending cameras back and forth, will we? Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert While I am pretty sure the Assist Lamp being available on command would work for me, I can see that it too presents problems for many others. If this is the only solution offered, then I also agree that there will remain a large number of very unhappy users. If I had the K5 then having the Assist Lamp option would work for me, but I don't have one yet. Would I buy one if this was the only option for FF problems. No, absolutely not. For the same reason I will never buy another Pentax SDM lens, although I love my DA*50-135, which is a replacement for my original one. I suspect it has the same problems as the first one, and to date Pentax has never made it "Screw Drive" ready in case it fails at SDM. The proper course is a solution to FF, and anything short will label the K5 as another SDM Adventure. Regards Originally posted by Rupert It is more than a little disconcerting that Pentax is having to depend on its buyers to analyze and find corrections for a camera they built? I had a picture of a well equipped Lab and staff of Engineers that were fully capable of building a highly sophisticated electronic machine, and with all the necessary means to adjust and repair when necessary. Nothing against Falk, he is a very capable and valued Member here, but in my 30+ years of plumbing I can't ever recall having to ask a customer to diagnose a technical problem and recommend a solution for that problem...that is what they paid me for. Maybe they should hire Falc and let him solve this and keep us posted on his progress, something they are not doing....if they are even addressing it? Instead of a picture in my mind of a High-Tech Lab, I am beginning to see a guy with a broom in a back room saying......"I always wanted to work on a camera". Secondly, I am betting this thread does not last the week.....any takers? Regards! Originally posted by Rupert; closed thread: Wheatfield, I can see your point, and to some degree I even agree that we are not making progress in solving the issue by continually going over and over the same points without seeing a solution brought forward. However, I present to you a similar case where the complainers were drowned out and not allowed to continue "piling on"......SDM lenses. Many asked for a solution by having Pentax make them work as screw drive when the SDM function failed, but since their voices had already been largely silenced, this never happened. Now we have a large number of Pentax users that avoid SDM lenses at any cost........If we assume that Pentax will make this FF repair if we go silent, will we also see a large number of shooters avoid the K5 at any cost? Like SDM, there are alternatives in the Marketplace, and people will take advantage of them, so the end result could easily be the same as for SDM. In fact, it is a sure bet that K5 sales are already less than what they would be without this problem.....word travels fast on the internet. So....the solution is not silence or denial, it is a repair of the problem, plain and simple. Nothing would work faster or better than for Pentax to make this repair or at least announce that they were working to solve the issue. Silence by Pentax is indeed one of the problems here. They were pretty fast to address the sensor stains, and that led to a return in confidence, but this deafening silence on the FF issue is killing confidence again. There are all sorts of reasons given for their refusal to acknowledge this defect, but how come those same reasons did not apply to the sensor stain issue? If they could address that, then why not this? That makes many people recall SDM, where they simply never addressed it....and we know the result of that poor decision. To sum up my personal feelings, I just want a repair to come forth, and most here that are complaining only want the same. A guy does not go through the hassle of several camera returns just to have an opportunity to come here and whine.....he is not a Pentax basher, he is a dedicated user and should be treated accordingly......which allows for him to voice his disappointment without being criticized as long as he is clearly civil and honest in his complaint. Many if not most will still be there to buy the K5 when this is addressed....if we are not the ones that run them off. Best Regards Originally posted by Rupert; closed thread: You won't see it fixed if you keep denying that it exists and is a serious problem for many shooters. If you shoot weddings and indoor events, this could be a deal killer, as many have noted. I would like to see more pushing for a repair than I would more lulling into acceptance of a sub standard camera. We saw this with SDM lenses....how did that work out? To this day most buyers are gun shy of SDM lenses, and just how has that benefited users or Pentax? Quality Control will only be as good as users require, and if they don't require a camera to meet the Mfg Specifications, you can bet it won't. Regards Originally posted by Rupert; closed thread: I read most everything here, don't have a K5 yet, and am bummed that I can't order without worry that I will get a "Lemon". I have seen very little "Bashing Pentax" here but I have seen a ton of disappointment. To try and attack those that have spent their hard earned money on a camera that does not perform to specifications is absolutely ludicrous and unacceptable in any free society. It is not dissimilar to bashing a victim of cancer because "I don't have it". People here only want what was specified by Pentax and nothing more. Where credit has been due for the K5 it has been quickly given,even by those on their 3rd, 4th, or 5th cameras. To be unhappy with a proven defect is not the same as being a Pentax Basher.........that would be Ricehigh.......and I have not seem him or his type here. Frustration is high for many at this time, and venting some of it is both normal and helpful to keep the lid on. If no one will listen and no one cares, why would anyone stay here on this Forum or with Pentax? Where this will lead will depend on Pentax, and their remedy and when it is available. Most like me are sticking with the hope that it will be sooner than later. Meanwhile, for those that just can't stand the thought of anyone being honestly unhappy with the K5 for justifiable reasons, then just close your eyes and pretend you do not see the Elephant in the room. Best Regards BTW- I do intend to buy the X100 as soon as it is available, but it will not affect my K5 purchase when the "All Clear" sign is posted. They are not at all similar, and I may not even like the X100, but it sure looks good! Originally posted by Rupert I too would like to hear from those with the update....and I would still like an answer to my Raccoon question? We are getting a lot of talk here, but I am not sure we are getting a lot of answers regarding "Relevant to the FF Problem"? I would love to see more of those and less of the other stuff.....just saying...... Regards! Originally posted by Rupert The Jeep comparison by Bjan was a reasonable example of expecting a product to perform to specifications, even if you seldom require a given operation. Wanting to "get what you paid for" is never an unreasonable request, with any product, and when we accept less, we will begin to get less every time. If this FF issue is something Pentax thinks buyers should "live with" then they should have made it a part of their announced specifications and let each buyer decide the significance in their usage. I have about 100K miles on my 14 year old Jeep, still in near perfect condition, not a scratch on it, and I treat it like a baby. Of those 100K miles less than a couple of hundred have been Off Road, but in those instances I expected it to perform flawlessly....and it did with flying colors! Best Regards! I special ordered this in 1997 when it was announced with the new suspension and upgrades throughout. Got it for Mrs Rupert, she thought it was "cute"...... Fully loaded with every option, and a fine machine, but I knew she wouldn't like the small size for long....and then I would get it! Sure enough, in less than a year she wanted a Cherokee, and I took the Wrangler! I know Mrs Rupert well! Being a new Model it had a couple of minor problems, they were very few (two) and instantly resolved...been thrilled with it ever since! Been just as happy with my K20D, and not even one problem with it........I don't think I expect too much, or anyone else that is waiting for a fix. Best Regards! My Baby Jeep | |
| 02-02-2011, 09:17 AM | #163 |
| 02-02-2011, 09:22 AM | #164 |
| Originally posted by Rupert Great tactic...attack the poster when the problem, documented by the majority here is the Camera! I did not produce the camera or the reported defects, but if you can direct attention to me as being the Culprit, then the problems reported won't exist....right? There are a lot of very frustrated and unhappy K5 users, beating on old Rupert will not make them go away, as you hope. It won't help to convince Retailers to continue carrying Pentax if you tell them it is "all Rupert's fault" ...will it? The Elephant in the room is the defective K5's, and you can point to Rupert all day or forever, but it won't change the facts as already reported here over and over. The internet is already full of "Lemon Reports", and I didn't write a one of them........but you want to credit me with reports of defective cameras, when I couldn't possibly do that....remember, I don't own one. I do however have SDM experience...you want to hear about that? Regards! | |
| 02-02-2011, 09:32 AM - 2 Likes | #165 |
| Originally posted by xGene Rupert, what else do you expect from him? Problem 1 - k5 has stains. Solution 1 - You don't know how to use your equipment. Just a bunch of dust. Man up and clean it, and stop whining. Solution 2 (when lot of people started complaining) - Not applicable. Never used an aperture less than f12, and I never will. Dismissed. Stop whining. Solution 3 - You don't own a k-5. Get out of the thread. Problem 2 - k-5 doesn't work very well with external flash. Solution 1 - You don't know how to use your equipment. Solution 2 (when lot of people started complaining) - Not applicable. I don't use a flash the way you do. Solution 3 - You don't own a k-5. Get out of the thread. Problem 3 - k-5 can't focus accurately in low light. Solution 1 - You don't know how to use your equipment. Solution 2 (when lot of people started complaining) - Not applicable. I don't shoot in the dark. You will never need to take that shot in real life. Man up and stop whining. Solution 3 - You don't own a k-5. Get out of the thread. Problem 4 - k-5 freezes randomly. Solution 1 - You don't know how to use your equipment. Solution 2 (when lot of people started complaining) - Not applicable. I never use Af-C mode. My camera has never frozen. Man up and stop whining. Solution 3 - You don't own a k-5. Get out of the thread. And for every one of your appeals to Pentax to fix a problem, I will post a perfectly framed and well focused shot from my spanking new k-5. | |
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