K5 sync wireless syn speeds with Metz 58AF1

myeates · 01-30-2011, 11:36 AM

I own the Metz 58af1 flash does anyone know what the max shutter speed is for use off the camera using wireless transmitters. The tests I have done seem to be 180th but I can only get it to work as a slave. I tried to use the hss mode but the flash refused to fire when used with wireless, when I reverted back to slave mode on the flash it worked, any advice on this flash and usage with the K5 will be gratefully received

JeffJS · 01-30-2011, 11:54 AM

1/180 is the limit. I don't remember for certain because it's been awhile since I tried it but I Think you can go HSS with a shoe mounted flash as the controller. That won't help with your wireless triggers though because you are dealing with x sync.

WerTicus · 01-30-2011, 08:58 PM

1/180 is limit with my setup currently which is af1 58 metz and onboard k-5 flash as trigger.

jrforman · 01-30-2011, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by myeates

I own the Metz 58af1 flash does anyone know what the max shutter speed is for use off the camera using wireless transmitters. The tests I have done seem to be 180th but I can only get it to work as a slave. I tried to use the hss mode but the flash refused to fire when used with wireless, when I reverted back to slave mode on the flash it worked, any advice on this flash and usage with the K5 will be gratefully received

High Speed Sync isn't possible in wireless mode (as you discovered). Only P-TTL is allowed in wireless. The flash can't be used as a dumb slave (firing on manual when primary flash fires) either. Only way to get HSS is with flash extension cord.

Last edited by jrforman; 01-30-2011 at 09:23 PM. Reason: clarify

C-Factor · 02-06-2011, 12:42 AM

You can do HSS wireless if you have a shoe mount flash on the camera as controller. I often do this with the 360 on camera and the 540 off camera. Unfotunately you are limeted to line of sight with this set up since radio triggers will limit you to 1/180. I have been bugging the guys at Radio Popper for a while now to work on making their PX system compatible with Pentax gear as this would allow HSS at greater distances outside....

jrforman · 02-06-2011, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by C-Factor

You can do HSS wireless if you have a shoe mount flash on the camera as controller. I often do this with the 360 on camera and the 540 off camera. Unfotunately you are limeted to line of sight with this set up since radio triggers will limit you to 1/180. I have been bugging the guys at Radio Popper for a while now to work on making their PX system compatible with Pentax gear as this would allow HSS at greater distances outside....

I don't think that HSS wireless is possible on the Metz 58-AF1, at least with the Metz being the slave (probably will work with Metz being the controller and Pentax flash as slave but don't know). Or am I missing something (which happens often).

JeffJS · 02-06-2011, 08:03 AM

What you are missing is that you are wrong because, It does work.

1/640 second. Pentax 540 controller, Metz 58 slave.

Don't get too hung up on the photo itself, it's taken with an IR modded camera.

jrforman · 02-06-2011, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

What you are missing is that you are wrong because, It does work.

Thanks. I stand corrected. I'll try it latter today.

JeffJS · 02-06-2011, 09:32 AM

Just make sure you have your control flash set for HSS. With this combo, line of sight rules still apply. That is the reason for my original statement about radio triggers being better for some applications. That line of sight doesn't necessarily have to be direct, all that is required is that the slave flash sees the signal.

C-Factor · 02-06-2011, 10:13 AM

Just don't put yourself in a position where you need to rely on the wireless line of sight system in an important shoot. It is so inconsistent outside and the brighter the ambient light the more interference you get with the system. I shot a wedding in December and set up a light stand with the 540 and 45" umbrella for fill on some outside posed shots. I was relying on the line of sight system, which was a very bad idea..Unfortunately, I missed some great shots. Ordering radio pobber Jrx system soon, but unfortunately it is limited to the cameras syc speed. Considering getting a Nikon D700 to have in addition to my Pentax gear to take advantage of HSS on a radio system like Radio Popper or the new Flex POcket Wizards.

jrforman · 02-06-2011, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Just make sure you have your control flash set for HSS. With this combo, line of sight rules still apply. That is the reason for my original statement about radio triggers being better for some applications. That line of sight doesn't necessarily have to be direct, all that is required is that the slave flash sees the signal.

Thanks again. It worked well. A friend told me it wouldn't work and when I had tried it before I don't believe I had the control in HSS. I am now smarter.

But since you are in the know, am I correct that you have to have an external flash on the hot shoe acting as a controller (the built in won't work), right?

And the Metz won't work as a "dumb" (non-P-TTL) slave flash, right?

JeffJS · 02-06-2011, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by jrforman

Thanks again. It worked well. A friend told me it wouldn't work and when I had tried it before I don't believe I had the control in HSS. I am now smarter.

But since you are in the know, am I correct that you have to have an external flash on the hot shoe acting as a controller (the built in won't work), right?

And the Metz won't work as a "dumb" (non-P-TTL) slave flash, right?

I'm not sure I know what a Dumb slave flash it. If you mean will it fire as a slave using the built in flash, yes, it will but I don't think that's what your asking.

For the HSS Sync in wireless, yes. An external shoe mounted flash is required (that supports both HSS and Wireless). It would be nice if they gave us HSS with the built in flash but they haven't so we have what we have.

jrforman · 02-06-2011, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by JeffJS

I'm not sure I know what a Dumb slave flash it. If you mean will it fire as a slave using the built in flash, yes, it will but I don't think that's what your asking.

Sorry I wasn't clear. What I mean is (lets see if I can be clear), that the flash will fire in a manual setting being triggered optically from any flash. So for example, I can use my old Pentax AF-500FTZ as a slave (has that setting), setting the light power manually. I use this a lot when I use radio triggers and don't have enough triggers for every flash.

JeffJS · 02-06-2011, 03:45 PM

I think the remote still works in P-TTL but what you can do is dial the flash compensation from plus to minus 3. You can also turn on the second reflector and adjust that from 1/4 to full output (assuming you've tilted the head). Rear curtain will work as well if you want to use it as well as a couple other things. But, even setting the mode to Manual first, P-TTL seems to take over. How that works and what works may be different on other platforms. My comments here and above apply only to the Pentax version.

01-30-2011, 11:36 AM	#1
myeates Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Lincolnshire Photos: Albums Posts: 23	K5 sync wireless syn speeds with Metz 58AF1 I own the Metz 58af1 flash does anyone know what the max shutter speed is for use off the camera using wireless transmitters. The tests I have done seem to be 180th but I can only get it to work as a slave. I tried to use the hss mode but the flash refused to fire when used with wireless, when I reverted back to slave mode on the flash it worked, any advice on this flash and usage with the K5 will be gratefully received

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01-30-2011, 11:54 AM	#2
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	1/180 is the limit. I don't remember for certain because it's been awhile since I tried it but I Think you can go HSS with a shoe mounted flash as the controller. That won't help with your wireless triggers though because you are dealing with x sync.

01-30-2011, 08:58 PM	#3
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	1/180 is limit with my setup currently which is af1 58 metz and onboard k-5 flash as trigger.

01-30-2011, 09:22 PM	#4
jrforman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 202	Originally posted by myeates I own the Metz 58af1 flash does anyone know what the max shutter speed is for use off the camera using wireless transmitters. The tests I have done seem to be 180th but I can only get it to work as a slave. I tried to use the hss mode but the flash refused to fire when used with wireless, when I reverted back to slave mode on the flash it worked, any advice on this flash and usage with the K5 will be gratefully received High Speed Sync isn't possible in wireless mode (as you discovered). Only P-TTL is allowed in wireless. The flash can't be used as a dumb slave (firing on manual when primary flash fires) either. Only way to get HSS is with flash extension cord. Last edited by jrforman; 01-30-2011 at 09:23 PM. Reason: clarify

02-06-2011, 12:42 AM	#5
C-Factor Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 113	You can do HSS wireless if you have a shoe mount flash on the camera as controller. I often do this with the 360 on camera and the 540 off camera. Unfotunately you are limeted to line of sight with this set up since radio triggers will limit you to 1/180. I have been bugging the guys at Radio Popper for a while now to work on making their PX system compatible with Pentax gear as this would allow HSS at greater distances outside....

02-06-2011, 07:45 AM	#6
jrforman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 202	Originally posted by C-Factor You can do HSS wireless if you have a shoe mount flash on the camera as controller. I often do this with the 360 on camera and the 540 off camera. Unfotunately you are limeted to line of sight with this set up since radio triggers will limit you to 1/180. I have been bugging the guys at Radio Popper for a while now to work on making their PX system compatible with Pentax gear as this would allow HSS at greater distances outside.... I don't think that HSS wireless is possible on the Metz 58-AF1, at least with the Metz being the slave (probably will work with Metz being the controller and Pentax flash as slave but don't know). Or am I missing something (which happens often).

02-06-2011, 08:03 AM	#7
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	What you are missing is that you are wrong because, It does work. 1/640 second. Pentax 540 controller, Metz 58 slave. Don't get too hung up on the photo itself, it's taken with an IR modded camera.

02-06-2011, 09:10 AM	#8
jrforman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 202	Originally posted by JeffJS What you are missing is that you are wrong because, It does work. Thanks. I stand corrected. I'll try it latter today.

02-06-2011, 09:32 AM	#9
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Just make sure you have your control flash set for HSS. With this combo, line of sight rules still apply. That is the reason for my original statement about radio triggers being better for some applications. That line of sight doesn't necessarily have to be direct, all that is required is that the slave flash sees the signal.

02-06-2011, 10:13 AM	#10
C-Factor Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 113	Just don't put yourself in a position where you need to rely on the wireless line of sight system in an important shoot. It is so inconsistent outside and the brighter the ambient light the more interference you get with the system. I shot a wedding in December and set up a light stand with the 540 and 45" umbrella for fill on some outside posed shots. I was relying on the line of sight system, which was a very bad idea..Unfortunately, I missed some great shots. Ordering radio pobber Jrx system soon, but unfortunately it is limited to the cameras syc speed. Considering getting a Nikon D700 to have in addition to my Pentax gear to take advantage of HSS on a radio system like Radio Popper or the new Flex POcket Wizards.

02-06-2011, 02:19 PM	#11
jrforman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 202	Originally posted by JeffJS Just make sure you have your control flash set for HSS. With this combo, line of sight rules still apply. That is the reason for my original statement about radio triggers being better for some applications. That line of sight doesn't necessarily have to be direct, all that is required is that the slave flash sees the signal. Thanks again. It worked well. A friend told me it wouldn't work and when I had tried it before I don't believe I had the control in HSS. I am now smarter. But since you are in the know, am I correct that you have to have an external flash on the hot shoe acting as a controller (the built in won't work), right? And the Metz won't work as a "dumb" (non-P-TTL) slave flash, right?

02-06-2011, 03:14 PM	#12
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by jrforman Thanks again. It worked well. A friend told me it wouldn't work and when I had tried it before I don't believe I had the control in HSS. I am now smarter. But since you are in the know, am I correct that you have to have an external flash on the hot shoe acting as a controller (the built in won't work), right? And the Metz won't work as a "dumb" (non-P-TTL) slave flash, right? I'm not sure I know what a Dumb slave flash it. If you mean will it fire as a slave using the built in flash, yes, it will but I don't think that's what your asking. For the HSS Sync in wireless, yes. An external shoe mounted flash is required (that supports both HSS and Wireless). It would be nice if they gave us HSS with the built in flash but they haven't so we have what we have.

02-06-2011, 03:31 PM	#13
jrforman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 202	Originally posted by JeffJS I'm not sure I know what a Dumb slave flash it. If you mean will it fire as a slave using the built in flash, yes, it will but I don't think that's what your asking. Sorry I wasn't clear. What I mean is (lets see if I can be clear), that the flash will fire in a manual setting being triggered optically from any flash. So for example, I can use my old Pentax AF-500FTZ as a slave (has that setting), setting the light power manually. I use this a lot when I use radio triggers and don't have enough triggers for every flash.

02-06-2011, 03:45 PM	#14
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	I think the remote still works in P-TTL but what you can do is dial the flash compensation from plus to minus 3. You can also turn on the second reflector and adjust that from 1/4 to full output (assuming you've tilted the head). Rear curtain will work as well if you want to use it as well as a couple other things. But, even setting the mode to Manual first, P-TTL seems to take over. How that works and what works may be different on other platforms. My comments here and above apply only to the Pentax version.