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02-03-2011, 11:13 AM   #1
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Reid's Review of K5 finished and full frame observations

The rest of the review is done. The k5 gets great marks, but I came away amazed at the full frame format. He compared the k5 output at various iso settings to the canon 5d (not 5d mkii). At 3200 which is the limit of the Canon it's out put has less noise and more detail. It's amazing to me that a camera that came out in 2005 still has better output with respect to noise than the hottest crop camera to date.

What will the next generation of full frame cameras bring?

Myself I'm on the fence as what to get. Pentax or a full frame. I think Pentax has many pluses, but I like the extraordinarily clean files from the full frame. I tend to shoot mostly landscape, but also would like to shoot indoors in low light. Sports shooting needs, long glass or high frame rates don't matter to me.

02-03-2011, 11:27 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
He compared the k5 output at various iso settings to the canon 5d (not 5d mkii). At 3200 which is the limit of the Canon it's out put has less noise and more detail. It's amazing to me that a camera that came out in 2005 still has better output with respect to noise than the hottest crop camera to date.
Thats sounds pretty suspect to me. The K-5 sensor dominates the 5d and is pretty even with the 5dmii (except maybe > ISO 3200). It should easily beat the 5d. Where is this review? Any samples shots or is it all talk?
02-03-2011, 11:41 AM   #3
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http://www.reidreviews.com

It's a paid site, but he goes into his methodology. To my eye the images of the 5d are clearly better. Perhaps a member of this forum with more knowledge is also a member of Reid Reviews and can add something further.
02-03-2011, 02:00 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
Thats sounds pretty suspect to me. The K-5 sensor dominates the 5d and is pretty even with the 5dmii (except maybe > ISO 3200). It should easily beat the 5d. Where is this review? Any samples shots or is it all talk?
Are you sure you're not thinking of dynamic range, rather than high-ISO noise levels? Everything I've seen to date suggests that the 5D ii still trumps the K-5 rather handily in the high ISO department, and I recall that comparing my K-x to the old 5D showed that the old 5D still had a decent advantage in the high ISO department. The K-5 is pretty great, but it's not exactly a multiple-stop improvement over the K-x.

Dynamic range is a different story, and that's where the K-5 is seen to take the field.

02-03-2011, 02:02 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
At 3200 which is the limit of the Canon it's out put has less noise and more detail
Canon has extremely aggressive noise reduction and the K5's sensor is probably still 1 stop worse than the D700's in terms of noise, so I think you're right about the next generation of FF sensors being a huge leap...
That said, after a certain point, it probably won't matter as much...do you really need more than a mostly clean ISO3200 indoors? Let's say the new FF sensors do a stop better like the K5 sensor jump...so a clean ISO6400 and decent ISO12800. What do you need?
02-03-2011, 02:07 PM   #6
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Full frame sensors have more light. More light = less noise. Right?
02-03-2011, 02:12 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
What will the next generation of full frame cameras bring?
You're wrong. It's not FF magic but lesser pixel density on FF sensor. It's highly unlikely 32Mp FF sensor would be any better in 100% crop than 14Mp 1.5 crop sensor.
02-03-2011, 02:25 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
You're wrong. It's not FF magic but lesser pixel density on FF sensor. It's highly unlikely 32Mp FF sensor would be any better in 100% crop than 14Mp 1.5 crop sensor.

I think it would

you have to crop to 150% on a FF to compare the results with a 100% on a 1.5 crop sensor...that would seem logical to me ,,i might be wrong though..LOL

02-03-2011, 02:32 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
You're wrong. It's not FF magic but lesser pixel density on FF sensor. It's highly unlikely 32Mp FF sensor would be any better in 100% crop than 14Mp 1.5 crop sensor.
I can't be wrong, I asked a question.
02-03-2011, 02:42 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Canon has extremely aggressive noise reduction and the K5's sensor is probably still 1 stop worse than the D700's in terms of noise, so I think you're right about the next generation of FF sensors being a huge leap...
That said, after a certain point, it probably won't matter as much...do you really need more than a mostly clean ISO3200 indoors? Let's say the new FF sensors do a stop better like the K5 sensor jump...so a clean ISO6400 and decent ISO12800. What do you need?
I don't recall the 5d classic having a lot of noise reduction, but maybe it does. If it does, it's still showing the same or better detail in the images on the review site than the K5.

I'm not saying I need more than ISO 3200, but the 5d was clearly better cleaner in every pic from ISO 400 on up and at 100 and 200 slightly cleaner.

If I only shot at 200 iso or below, I would not care. My landscape work falls in that range, but rarely does anything in doors without flash.

The K5 is good with regards to noise, probably the best crop sensor camera out there. My point is I was surprised how good a 6 year old full frame camera actually was. It was not trying to say or imply the K5 was bad, so I hope nobody thinks that's what I'm saying.
02-03-2011, 02:51 PM   #11
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Wait, wait, wait...

People pay to read camera reviews?
02-03-2011, 03:37 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Are you sure you're not thinking of dynamic range, rather than high-ISO noise levels? Everything I've seen to date suggests that the 5D ii still trumps the K-5 rather handily in the high ISO department, and I recall that comparing my K-x to the old 5D showed that the old 5D still had a decent advantage in the high ISO department. The K-5 is pretty great, but it's not exactly a multiple-stop improvement over the K-x.

Dynamic range is a different story, and that's where the K-5 is seen to take the field.
This is where full frame beats APS-C consistently. Full frame cameras have approximately one stop better noise than do even the best APS-C cameras. Of course, when you factor in equivalence and the fact that you are shooting with more shallow depth of field at an equivalent f stop, if you keep depth of field the same, the noise advantage is negated.

That said, to me the question is how much of a difference you will see at printing sizes. For most users, they will not be able to see much difference below iso 6400 between the K5 and 5D.
02-03-2011, 05:04 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Emacs Quote
You're wrong. It's not FF magic but lesser pixel density on FF sensor. It's highly unlikely 32Mp FF sensor would be any better in 100% crop than 14Mp 1.5 crop sensor.
A 100% crop is not a photograph. The question is how will the images from the two cameras compare in the same size prints or screen images. At the same size, more pixels produce better IQ, assuming that there is a visible difference.

Jeff
02-03-2011, 05:44 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
People pay to read camera reviews?
Those who are silly enough to buy magazines do. :-)
02-03-2011, 07:34 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by RyanW Quote
The rest of the review is done. The k5 gets great marks, but I came away amazed at the full frame format. He compared the k5 output at various iso settings to the canon 5d (not 5d mkii). At 3200 which is the limit of the Canon it's out put has less noise and more detail. It's amazing to me that a camera that came out in 2005 still has better output with respect to noise than the hottest crop camera to date.

What will the next generation of full frame cameras bring?

Myself I'm on the fence as what to get. Pentax or a full frame. I think Pentax has many pluses, but I like the extraordinarily clean files from the full frame. I tend to shoot mostly landscape, but also would like to shoot indoors in low light. Sports shooting needs, long glass or high frame rates don't matter to me.
My shooting buddy uses a Canon 5D MKI.

We compared pics taken at high ISOs and he was very impressed at my new K-5 and agrees it smokes his Canon 5D.

I pay no attention to reviews in comparison to reality.
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