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02-12-2011, 10:28 AM   #61
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That's a good example of a bad problem, and I am certainly not going to say that it doesn't exist....my friend Al has had three K5's that will not perform up to his old K100D level in low light. This should be addressed by Pentax, no doubt about it, and I would think we could all agree with that? Why couldn't we?

What I am also saying is that the degree of severity in real world shooting must be very minimal or we would have 28 pages of "Keeper Shots" posted by disgruntled K5 owners or potential owners, and we don't, do we?

I searched my Galleries of many thousands of shots to find the ones I might have missed with a FF problem K5, and to my surprise, it was pitifully few, and only one or two of those were "Treasures". So speaking only with my own shooting in mind, and not without regard for those with severe issues, this is not a real life problem for me as I see it presently.

When I get the K5, I will be most happy to report that that is in fact correct...or not. Until then I remain somewhat confused by this whole subject, and maybe will be until I try a hands on experience for myself. There are just so many variables that the real Truth may just come down to the camera in your hands, and your personal experience and needs.
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02-12-2011, 11:00 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
That's a good example of a bad problem, and I am certainly not going to say that it doesn't exist....my friend Al has had three K5's that will not perform up to his old K100D level in low light. This should be addressed by Pentax, no doubt about it, and I would think we could all agree with that? Why couldn't we?

What I am also saying is that the degree of severity in real world shooting must be very minimal or we would have 28 pages of "Keeper Shots" posted by disgruntled K5 owners or potential owners, and we don't, do we?

I searched my Galleries of many thousands of shots to find the ones I might have missed with a FF problem K5, and to my surprise, it was pitifully few, and only one or two of those were "Treasures". So speaking only with my own shooting in mind, and not without regard for those with severe issues, this is not a real life problem for me as I see it presently.
Well people aren't going to publish OOF shots online, unless it's specifically for a test or to highlight a problem so it's not suprising you're going to come across many in the real world of galleries.

And that's what encouraged me to post some evidence because I was aghast that someone could do a google search of low light K-5 photos on the web, then link to a few to try and minimise a problem, and then pass that off as remotely sensible.



QuoteQuote:
When I get the K5, I will be most happy to report that that is in fact correct...or not. Until then I remain somewhat confused by this whole subject, and maybe will be until I try a hands on experience for myself. There are just so many variables that the real Truth may just come down to the camera in your hands, and your personal experience and needs.
Best Regards
I have no idea whether this problem affects all K-5s or just some. I just know it's big problem with my K-5 and is easily reproducible with all my lenses.
02-12-2011, 11:14 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote


I have no idea whether this problem affects all K-5s or just some. I just know it's big problem with my K-5 and is easily reproducible with all my lenses.
I've been without mine for 2 weeks now and I've been using manual focus for so long on the Single games (albums linked in sig) but I can say beyond doubt that your experience mirrors mine, at times. It wasn't always the case however and for the most part, *I* chalked it up to user error. It Really seemed to matter what Type of low light was being used.

I didn't do much testing with it because I had just installed it before sending the camera off but I *thought* they had at least partially tried to address this in v1.02 of the firmware.

QuoteQuote:
Improved functional sequence for Contrast AF and improved total speed until in focus.
02-12-2011, 11:39 AM   #64
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As I noted, there is no denying of the problem, but in how many cameras and to what degree is a mystery. I think by mid-summer I can buy a K5 knowing that all that can be done, has been done, and then it is a "what you got , is what you get" situation. At that time I will have to make a decision if a problem still remains as to how severe it will affect me personally. I had hoped to have a K5 sooner, for Spring vacation, but the K20D will do fine, it has in the past. I will also have the Fuji X100 in a few more weeks to play with and keep me satisfied until I get the K5. Not sure why I am getting it...I don't particularly like small cameras, but it has grabbed at my desire to have something that is similar to what shooters used in the "Old Days"....since I never was a film shooter and missed all the great cameras of days gone by.
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02-12-2011, 12:33 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
I've been without mine for 2 weeks now and I've been using manual focus for so long on the Single games (albums linked in sig) but I can say beyond doubt that your experience mirrors mine, at times. It wasn't always the case however and for the most part, *I* chalked it up to user error. It Really seemed to matter what Type of low light was being used.

I didn't do much testing with it because I had just installed it before sending the camera off but I *thought* they had at least partially tried to address this in v1.02 of the firmware.




V1.02 only addressed the 'Contrast AF'. which is the Live View method, through the sensor and works fine. See my two examples further up the thread
02-12-2011, 12:52 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
V1.02 only addressed the 'Contrast AF'. which is the Live View method, through the sensor and works fine. See my two examples further up the thread
I saw your license plate photos and as noted have had similar experiences. Just taking stabs at the Why is it happening.

02-12-2011, 02:47 PM   #67
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Professional Reviews

I've read quite a few of the professional reviews. Can't say that any of these reviews have mentioned the FF issue. What is the message in that?
02-12-2011, 02:57 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by mgm2 Quote
I've read quite a few of the professional reviews. Can't say that any of these reviews have mentioned the FF issue. What is the message in that?
They haven't tested the camera very well? I find it hard to believe that none of the reviewers had a defective opy.


I found the problem within 2 hours of owning it.

Reviews are also generally politically contaminated, I never put much value in them at all.

02-12-2011, 03:33 PM   #69
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I've read the reviews too, and noted that the focus is not mentioned as an issue. The last Pop Photo Magazine did note the low light problems on the D7K, so if it shows up on their K5 test, I bet they will note it.

This just adds more confusion and mystery to the problem in my opinion. My guess is faulty AF sensors....some work, some don't?I do believe that if I had one with problems I would send it in for repair, because I think Pentax knows the problem and has chosen to respond only when a camera is sent in for repair. Like SDM. Although this is very unfortunate and inconvenient, it is the most logical way to handle the problem. A total recall would jamb the system and many that had no problem would suddenly "discover" one.
I will be most interested to hear from someone that sent their K5 in for this specific problem, and what it was like when returned? So far I haven't seen any of those posts, but some should be popping up soon?
Regards
02-12-2011, 04:22 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I've read the reviews too, and noted that the focus is not mentioned as an issue. The last Pop Photo Magazine did note the low light problems on the D7K, so if it shows up on their K5 test, I bet they will note it.

This just adds more confusion and mystery to the problem in my opinion. My guess is faulty AF sensors....some work, some don't?I do believe that if I had one with problems I would send it in for repair, because I think Pentax knows the problem and has chosen to respond only when a camera is sent in for repair. Like SDM. Although this is very unfortunate and inconvenient, it is the most logical way to handle the problem. A total recall would jamb the system and many that had no problem would suddenly "discover" one.
I will be most interested to hear from someone that sent their K5 in for this specific problem, and what it was like when returned? So far I haven't seen any of those posts, but some should be popping up soon?
Regards
Given the replacements going on for the sensor stains, I can understand why a big replacement/recall for the FF problem is something they would love to avoid right now.
02-12-2011, 06:44 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Given the replacements going on for the sensor stains, I can understand why a big replacement/recall for the FF problem is something they would love to avoid right now.
Yes, regrettably, you are right and it is best avoided. I personally think it might be repaired if sent in. It is also why I don't think there has been or will be a Firmware fix...if it is hardware that would not work.

It is not an optimal solution, and would no doubt leave some number of K5's out in the world that were never sent in and never repaired, but for those that were, the problem would be solved. Not unreasonable on the part of Pentax if that is what happens. Look at the options? Later models should show up clear if this is indeed the case....who knows, because my thoughts here are simply speculation.
Regards
02-12-2011, 08:09 PM   #72
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please check out post 345 by Trig..a very good image at High ISO and wide open..


https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/123731-no-more-tests-just-pictures-23.html

smeggy

sorry I upset you so much posting those images mate..please accept my humble apologies

Last edited by Tommot1965; 02-12-2011 at 08:15 PM.
02-12-2011, 08:34 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
please check out post 345 by Trig..a very good image at High ISO and wide open..


https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/123731-no-more-tests-just-pictures-23.html

smeggy

sorry I upset you so much posting those images mate..please accept my humble apologies
You didn't upset me. It's just you seem to missing the point regarding the FF problem.

No one is saying the K-5 can't take great low light pics. In fact the K-5 is the best low light APS-C camera ever IMO. I would go fuirther to say the K-5 is huge leap forward for Pentax. It's a wonderful camera. I love mine to bits and I'm planning to buy a second one as I like to carry two bodies on serious shoots to avoid missing shots while changing lenses. i'm going to sell my K20 and K10 to fund this.

Those shots you posted are great. Shots that ain't easy to get using previous bodies. But they don't mean anything in regards to proving or disproving the low light AF problems.

Look, we can 'manual focus', or 'Live view AF focus' a low light shot with the K-5 and get it sharp. I've shot hundreds like this already, I'm particularly into urban street light shooting.

But the fact remains that there is a fault with a significant amount of K-5s which are Front focussing in low light. My K-5 is affected and I'm waiting for a fix. You can see the examples I posted earlier in the thread - the car license plate shots. My K20D has no problem focussing in the same conditions. I expect the same or better with my K-5.
02-12-2011, 08:40 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
You didn't upset me. It's just you seem to missing the point regarding the FF problem.

No one is saying the K-5 can't take great low light pics. In fact the K-5 is the best low light APS-C camera ever IMO. I would go fuirther to say the K-5 is huge leap forward for Pentax. It's a wonderful camera. I love mine to bits and I'm planning to buy a second one as I like to carry two bodies on serious shoots to avoid missing shots while changing lenses. i'm going to sell my K20 and K10 to fund this.

Those shots you posted are great. Shots that ain't easy to get using previous bodies. But they don't mean anything in regards to proving or disproving the low light AF problems.

Look, we can 'manual focus', or 'Live view AF focus' a low light shot with the K-5 and get it sharp. I've shot hundreds like this already, I'm particularly into urban street light shooting.

But the fact remains that there is a fault with a significant amount of K-5s which are Front focussing in low light. My K-5 is affected and I'm waiting for a fix. You can see the examples I posted earlier in the thread - the car license plate shots. My K20D has no problem focussing in the same conditions. I expect the same or better with my K-5.
I agree with both of those points...your particular K5 seems to be worse than the two K5's I've personally tested ....is there a chance you can change it for a better performing one ?....
02-12-2011, 08:41 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Look, we can 'manual focus', or 'Live view AF focus' a low light shot with the K-5 and get it sharp. I've shot hundreds like this already, I'm particularly into urban street light shooting.

But the fact remains that there is a fault with a significant amount of K-5s which are Front focussing in low light. My K-5 is affected and I'm waiting for a fix
I still fail to see how this is a major problem. I am sure Pentax will fix it with a firmware update. Until then what is so difficult about using MF or LV? If they don't fix it within the warranty period get a new one. Nothing in life is perfect.
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