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02-09-2011, 01:36 PM   #1
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I am fully aware of the K5 problems in low light, I've read most every thread here and have a vested interest in a solution being found. Meanwhile, looking through my own shots, I find pitifully few that would fall in the range where problems exist on the K5.
I realize that is just my shots, and my style of shooting, so I am in no way saying this is not a problem that needs repair, but since I can't find many shots that are in the range of problems, can some of you that are most affected post some examples of what you do or have done in the past in this range?

Any camera, anytime.....not test shots, real life keepers that you got in this range that the K5 won't get for you with the current FF problem. Maybe I can see what I am missing .......or maybe I am not missing anything?

I am not posting this to inflame anyone with or without a problem, but simply to see what it is that is being discussed in a true to life situation, not some test shots of no artistic or practical value.
Best Regards

The first reply from Christine assumed that I am looking for shots with problems. No , No , No! I am looking for shots without problems from any camera as an example of what shooters are capable of doing in the range where the K5 is failing. From the outcry, I would assume that there are tons of these shots that have been taken by shooters that can't now shoot with the K5. If so, show us some of them complete with EXIF. That should be easy enough? Maybe re-read my opening?


Last edited by Rupert; 02-09-2011 at 06:49 PM. Reason: Clarify
02-09-2011, 02:52 PM   #2
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These shots won't really show the problem, since I am using F4 (anything lower than F4 will not capture the entire face in focus - I have learnt this from bitter experience)

[I know you are looking for real life shots that demonstrate the problem - my apologies if my post is off topic.]

All taken on the DA70mm, ISO 3200.

Light was low, but not super yellowish as lighting was a combination of flourescent and halogen lighting in a Chinese restaurant. There is a strong yellowish cast on the raw photos though if white balance is not corrected.

I probably would not want to take pictures in lighting much lower than this.











And some handheld night shots in TAv mode (oh my, I LOVE this mode for street photography!!! Totally impossible on my K10D!!!):











Last edited by Christine Tham; 02-09-2011 at 02:58 PM.
02-09-2011, 04:53 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
These shots won't really show the problem, since I am using F4 (anything lower than F4 will not capture the entire face in focus - I have learnt this from bitter experience)
interesting you say this.......i have f/2.8 zooms......and it's been driving me mad to get spot-on focus....but then this is an interesting topic, as f/2.8 on an APS-C sensor has such shallow DOF, it's kinda useless for such shots eh? gives me pause to rethink the whole idea of the focusing issue with the K-5. although there are some folks who say that even stopping down, the focus can still be quite inaccurate. at any rate, i'll keep this in mind when shooting awesome pics btw!

-raph
02-09-2011, 05:07 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by raphtze Quote
interesting you say this.......i have f/2.8 zooms......and it's been driving me mad to get spot-on focus....but then this is an interesting topic, as f/2.8 on an APS-C sensor has such shallow DOF, it's kinda useless for such shots eh? gives me pause to rethink the whole idea of the focusing issue with the K-5. although there are some folks who say that even stopping down, the focus can still be quite inaccurate. at any rate, i'll keep this in mind when shooting awesome pics btw!

-raph
What I think some people fail to understand, or at least the way I read all of this, is that stopping down the lens changes nothing with respect to auto focus. The lens remains wide open until the photo is taken. Getting sharper results at a stopped down aperture are a result of DOF, not improved AF.



02-09-2011, 05:16 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
What I think some people fail to understand, or at least the way I read all of this, is that stopping down the lens changes nothing with respect to auto focus. The lens remains wide open until the photo is taken. Getting sharper results at a stopped down aperture are a result of DOF, not improved AF.


The understanding that I have (based on discussion in that other long thread) is that the AF has tendency for a very *slight* FF in low light.

So shooting at f4 masks out any inaccuracy in the AF, not that f4 by itself improves the accuracy of the AF. Of course, lenses are generally sharper when stopped, so that is also a factor.

Hope I have made that clear.
02-09-2011, 05:16 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
What I think some people fail to understand, or at least the way I read all of this, is that stopping down the lens changes nothing with respect to auto focus. The lens remains wide open until the photo is taken. Getting sharper results at a stopped down aperture are a result of DOF, not improved AF.
oh i do know that...but at this point, i guess stopping down helps to somewhat get better focus due to increase of DOF. this is masking the issue of focus accuracy. after all, there's currently no fix, and no public acknowledgement of a problem and/or fix from pentax, so i guess stopping down is the next best thing.

it was just something i never thought of until christine mentioned it--that even if you get bang-on sharp focus of the eyes at f/2.8.....the ears and nose maybe out of focus due to shallow DOF--so f/4 helps to bring it all in focus. of course, it would help to get bang-on focus of the eyes at f/4 or whatever to begin with

-raph
02-09-2011, 05:21 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
The understanding that I have (based on discussion in that other long thread) is that the AF has tendency for a very *slight* FF in low light.

So shooting at f4 masks out any inaccuracy in the AF, not that f4 by itself improves the accuracy of the AF. Of course, lenses are generally sharper when stopped, so that is also a factor.

Hope I have made that clear.
QuoteOriginally posted by raphtze Quote
oh i do know that...but at this point, i guess stopping down helps to somewhat get better focus due to increase of DOF. this is masking the issue of focus accuracy. after all, there's currently no fix, and no public acknowledgement of a problem and/or fix from pentax, so i guess stopping down is the next best thing.

it was just something i never thought of until christine mentioned it--that even if you get bang-on sharp focus of the eyes at f/2.8.....the ears and nose maybe out of focus due to shallow DOF--so f/4 helps to bring it all in focus. of course, it would help to get bang-on focus of the eyes at f/4 or whatever to begin with

-raph
I'm not arguing the point of FF with fast lenses. That's been well established by the posters. I've seen it with mine too though it wasn't consistently off. What I am saying is the idea that Stopping down the lens, that is shooting at anything other than wide open, does nothing in terms of the actual auto focus. If it is off with an f2.8 lens (or in my case an f1.8), it is off regardless of the aperture setting.

02-09-2011, 05:28 PM   #8
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JeffJS,

Since you started this off with a "What I think some people fail to understand ..." and it is now clear there is no failure to understand by any poster on this thread, perhaps we can move on? :-)

02-09-2011, 06:40 PM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I am fully aware of the K5 problems in low light, I've read most every thread here and have a vested interest in a solution being found. Meanwhile, looking through my own shots, I find pitifully few that would fall in the range where problems exist on the K5.
I realize that is just my shots, and my style of shooting, so I am in no way saying this is not a problem that needs repair, but since I can't find many shots that are in the range of problems, can some of you that are most affected post some examples of what you do or have done in the past in this range?

Any camera, anytime.....not test shots, real life keepers that you got in this range that the K5 won't get for you with the current FF problem. Maybe I can see what I am missing .......or maybe I am not missing anything?

I am not posting this to inflame anyone with or without a problem, but simply to see what it is that is being discussed in a true to life situation, not some test shots of no artistic or practical value.
Best Regards
You can check out that 'long thread' (which is just repeating itself like a broken record )
I know for certain that I'm getting shots on my K5 that would have been missed if I relied on the indecisive AF on my previous cameras (K100D, K7)
02-09-2011, 06:57 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
JeffJS,

Since you started this off with a "What I think some people fail to understand ..." and it is now clear there is no failure to understand by any poster on this thread, perhaps we can move on? :-)
QuoteQuote:
although there are some folks who say that even stopping down, the focus can still be quite inaccurate
Hence, my statement. Read it all to get want full context.

Yes, we can move on.

02-09-2011, 07:11 PM   #11
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02-09-2011, 07:19 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
JeffJS,

Since you started this off with a "What I think some people fail to understand ..." and it is now clear there is no failure to understand by any poster on this thread, perhaps we can move on? :-)
Christine, this is about posting shots from ANY camera that has no focus issues that were shot in the range where the K5 is failing. It is not about Jeff, or the K5, or what is or isn't...it is about posting photos shot in the range that is showing problems. Surely some that are highly affected by this have some past photos where they "got the shot" the K5 won't get? So...let's see them and see what they look like. If this is truly important, as claimed, let' see what we are missing? We are missing something....right?

I'm not arguing or challenging, I'm just honestly curious about what is done in this range of low light shooting? I could only find a very tiny few in all my thousands of online photos in this range, so was guessing that others must do more of this by far than I do? If so...Lets See Them!
Regards
02-09-2011, 07:25 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
Hence, my statement. Read it all to get want full context.

Yes, we can move on.

Jeff, that is an excellent point, and one I keep overlooking. Focus is obtained at the largest aperture, so even at F8, your camera would be mis-focusing using the wide open setting. This is a problem...only a fully manual lens like my 645's would not be affected if set at F4 or more, right? Of course, that is a problem in low light, and one reason my very excellent 645 120Macro is so hard to use on my K20D......at F16 it is impossible to see well enough to focus unless you are in very bright light.
Regards
02-09-2011, 07:31 PM   #14
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@christine lmao

@rupert i got a refurb K20D for my wife the same time i got my K-5....and i must say the focus was a lot better with the K20D when mounted with my ancient zooms. i don't have the K20D with me (my wife actually lives an hour's flight away from me) so i can't really test.....but she's coming to visit this wknd. i'll see if i can make some side by side testing with the K-5 and my wife's K20D

-raph
02-09-2011, 07:35 PM   #15
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Are you saying K-5 cannot focus at all in dim light? I fail to understand the point of this thread, but it's got me intrigued.
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