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02-10-2011, 07:44 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Seavey Quote
Thanks Jeff,
The E-5 with it's smaller and noisier sensor is not an option. I have considered the D7K, but I am reading about it's focus issues too. So now I am down to the Canon 7D and Nikon D300. I like the 16mp resolution for cropping purposes, so the D300 is out. Now I am left with the larger 7D that has slightly inferior sensor than K5. In the end, I would definitely prefer to keep my K5 that focuses properly at low light levels and then the camera will be really great for me.
Eric, you should check out the Canon 7D forum on dpreview. FF and soft focus issues. The only top of the line APS-C dSLR without them seems to be the aging but awesome Nikon D300s. It's tempting, even though it's only 12.something megapixels. But the price of the glass!!!!!!!!!!!!

02-10-2011, 07:51 PM   #17
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I have also read about some focus issues with the D7000, but I just ordered one last night to try it for myself. If I see the same issues I had withtbe first K5, then I either wait for the next cycle of cameras or just get another K5 and live with its issues. Btw, the liveview workaround wasn't that bad but not ideal.
I think the 7d is too big compared to the other two.
02-11-2011, 01:47 AM   #18
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I would not touch a Nikon with a 20ft bargepole. I had a couple of them in the past - extremely unreliable cameras and their customer service is worse than nonexistent. Their head of UK CS was an incredibly arrogant man who should have never been in that job.

I know several professional and semi-professional photographers who use Nikons and they say "yeah, Nikon don't have any customer service, but they have clever equipment". And yes it is slick to watch their remote flashes talking to each other using brief flashes carrying data. However, these people are gradually moving to Canon because Canon stuff "just works".

The K5 is an amazing camera. Apart from what are obviously QA issues (and fairly sporadic ones) the build quality is excellent. My son has a Canon 7D and I'd say the K5 has similar capability (at a similar price) but his lenses seem to cost a lot more for the same spec. The K5 is also much more compact, lighter and has a much better finger grip - relevant unless you have gorilla-sized hands in which case the 7D is better

Last edited by peterh337; 02-11-2011 at 01:56 AM.
02-11-2011, 05:05 AM   #19
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Hopefully someday I will own a K5. I have said it before, but I can't really move from Pentax. The lenses that I have are not truly replaceable in another system -- certainly not without spending a whole lot of money. Not that I feel trapped, I'm just not really looking at other systems.

At the same time, the K5 does look awfully nice. I do think the issues will be ironed out, probably sooner than later. I don't think it is fanboyism to say so, either. Sure it is optimistic, but we know that Pentax is working on it and they have been able to have accurate auto focus in this type situation with other cameras, stands to reason that they will eventually figure out how to get the auto focus adjusted correctly with the K5.

02-11-2011, 07:27 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Hopefully someday I will own a K5. I have said it before, but I can't really move from Pentax. The lenses that I have are not truly replaceable in another system -- certainly not without spending a whole lot of money. Not that I feel trapped, I'm just not really looking at other systems.

At the same time, the K5 does look awfully nice. I do think the issues will be ironed out, probably sooner than later. I don't think it is fanboyism to say so, either. Sure it is optimistic, but we know that Pentax is working on it and they have been able to have accurate auto focus in this type situation with other cameras, stands to reason that they will eventually figure out how to get the auto focus adjusted correctly with the K5.
I wish that was the case, but reading recent posts of the last few days, Pentax Service Centers are asking for information to send to Pentax Japan, who they claim is not aware of the Focus Issues. This has been going on for two months, and it is time for a Fix, not time to just now be learning of the problem? Maybe someone should advise Hoya that there is this Internet thing, and on it you can find DPR and PF and read all about the camera you just released.

Just a thought, I sure don't want to tell Hoya how to run their business.......they are doing "Superb".....right?

I thought a "Superb" camera was on that worked, like my K20D and all the other K20D's that have worked flawlessly for the past three years. Casio can build a "Superb" DSLR on paper, but one that works in real life is what people want.
Regards
02-11-2011, 08:35 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I wish that was the case, but reading recent posts of the last few days, Pentax Service Centers are asking for information to send to Pentax Japan, who they claim is not aware of the Focus Issues. This has been going on for two months, and it is time for a Fix, not time to just now be learning of the problem? Maybe someone should advise Hoya that there is this Internet thing, and on it you can find DPR and PF and read all about the camera you just released.

Just a thought, I sure don't want to tell Hoya how to run their business.......they are doing "Superb".....right?

I thought a "Superb" camera was on that worked, like my K20D and all the other K20D's that have worked flawlessly for the past three years. Casio can build a "Superb" DSLR on paper, but one that works in real life is what people want.
Regards
I think you can argue that Pentax Japan is clueless when it comes to PR, but what that has to do with a great camera, I don't know. Numerous sources have said that they are working on it (most of them in Pentax Europe). Some have said the firmware fix would be available in the next two weeks.

The K20 was a great camera, but also not as ambitious. It has a frame rate of 3 + fps and basically continued the same auto focus system that was in the K100 onward. Not hard to see how that camera worked better from the beginning than the K5 that introduced new auto focus modules, has significantly higher frames per second, and much higher iso than was ever dreamed of when the K20 was released. The K20 was "mature" technology for Pentax, but it was also the end of the line.

I am glad that Pentax is actually introducing new features, even if it has some growing pains in so doing.
02-11-2011, 09:21 AM   #22
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Thanks for the Canon 7D info. I will continue to search the Canon 7D forums about their focus issues, so far I have mostly read about user errors. I would find it pretty hard to believe a mature camera like the 7D at it's price would have focus issues.

For now my work around for the FF is to stop down, and increase the ISO. For my dance photos I usually do not have objects between me and the subject, so when the DOF is pulled towards me due to FF, the background will still be nicely blurred and I don't really care that the foreground is sharp. Too bad, this is needs to be done now, the DOF at f/1.4 is nicely about 2 feet, covering the subjects perfectly. At f/2.8, DOF is about 4 feet with the 30mm lens I use.
02-11-2011, 10:13 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think you can argue that Pentax Japan is clueless when it comes to PR, but what that has to do with a great camera, I don't know. Numerous sources have said that they are working on it (most of them in Pentax Europe). Some have said the firmware fix would be available in the next two weeks.

The K20 was a great camera, but also not as ambitious. It has a frame rate of 3 + fps and basically continued the same auto focus system that was in the K100 onward. Not hard to see how that camera worked better from the beginning than the K5 that introduced new auto focus modules, has significantly higher frames per second, and much higher iso than was ever dreamed of when the K20 was released. The K20 was "mature" technology for Pentax, but it was also the end of the line.

I am glad that Pentax is actually introducing new features, even if it has some growing pains in so doing.

I can't disagree that moving forward is a good sign, and the K5 is certainly better advanced than the K20D...but it has flaws the K20D never had. My truck can fly.....on paper. Features are great, but they have to perform, otherwise they are just paper statistics.

I hope you are right, and Pentax is working on a fix for the focus issues, I was just reporting very recent posts here and what was said by Pentax Service. You should keep in mind that Pentax has never heard of SDM problems either.......so I don't find much comfort in their silence on the focus issues.

Thirdly, I do not understand this mentality that seems to take pride in Hoya being a "distanced" Company that is not aware of their Marketing failures, their poor Customer Relations, and their growing bad PR. How many companies can you name that survive and prosper with such policies? I can't think of a single one of any significance. It is not something to be proud of, it is the kind of foolishness that leads to bankruptcy.
Regards

02-11-2011, 11:04 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think you can argue that Pentax Japan is clueless when it comes to PR, but what that has to do with a great camera, I don't know. Numerous sources have said that they are working on it (most of them in Pentax Europe). Some have said the firmware fix would be available in the next two weeks.

The K20 was a great camera, but also not as ambitious. It has a frame rate of 3 + fps and basically continued the same auto focus system that was in the K100 onward. Not hard to see how that camera worked better from the beginning than the K5 that introduced new auto focus modules, has significantly higher frames per second, and much higher iso than was ever dreamed of when the K20 was released. The K20 was "mature" technology for Pentax, but it was also the end of the line.

I am glad that Pentax is actually introducing new features, even if it has some growing pains in so doing.
That was two weeks ago
02-11-2011, 11:46 AM   #25
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It is important that Pentax takes the time to actually fix problems rather than putting a patch on the tear that doesn't actually fit. This camera was rushed to market and in hind sight, an extra month of beta testing/software work would have done it well.

I feel like Hoya is focused on the Japanese market and to a lesser extent the European market and end up treating the North American division like unwanted step children. They talk to them periodically, but don't get them real support or input most of the time.
02-11-2011, 12:02 PM   #26
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I actually do have a feeling Pentax is trying to address this problem. I find it interesting that there was a regression in the firmware posted by another member. This tells me Pentax is working on something. Also I found that the latest patch really made the FF issue not any better, maybe even worse.

What ever the FF problem is, I guess it is not a easy one to solve. Temporarily, I would be happy with a setting where one could enter the AF fine adjustment to - 20 to -30 that I could select when taking photos in low light conditions.
02-11-2011, 12:47 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Seavey Quote
I actually do have a feeling Pentax is trying to address this problem. I find it interesting that there was a regression in the firmware posted by another member. This tells me Pentax is working on something. Also I found that the latest patch really made the FF issue not any better, maybe even worse.

What ever the FF problem is, I guess it is not a easy one to solve. Temporarily, I would be happy with a setting where one could enter the AF fine adjustment to - 20 to -30 that I could select when taking photos in low light conditions.

Me too. I'd like a +/- 20 or 30 permanently. FF aside some lenses required more then +/- 10

My A50/1.2 needs something like a -14. I can use the over all adjustment to give it the additional -4 though but it's a kludge
02-11-2011, 01:18 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is important that Pentax takes the time to actually fix problems rather than putting a patch on the tear that doesn't actually fit. This camera was rushed to market and in hind sight, an extra month of beta testing/software work would have done it well.
Was rushed??
How much time they need to build a upgraded camera? 5 years?
And for the fact that they don't know yet about SDM, FF, sensor stains problems!
Let's be serious, they know but they don't want to accept their failures!
02-11-2011, 01:44 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
...This camera was rushed to market and in hind sight, an extra month of beta testing/software work would have done it well...
Many high-tech products, software or hardware, go to market before they are truly 100% ready. There are pressures. Photokina probably was the release target for the K-5. No doubt there were people on the technical side in Pentax who would have like another year to iron out the kinks .

If I had already purchased the camera and had had to return several copies, I would be very upset. But the problems are very likely going to get resolved over the next months.

Jeff
02-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by MariusCTM Quote
Was rushed??
How much time they need to build a upgraded camera? 5 years?
And for the fact that they don't know yet about SDM, FF, sensor stains problems!
Let's be serious, they know but they don't want to accept their failures!
Let's give them credit where due, they did respond to the sensor stains and took proper actions in a timely manner. It was unavoidable, but they did move to resolve it.

SDM....well, that is a haunting failure, and causes concern that the FF issue may end up in the same pattern? There are many ways to handle problems in a product with varying degrees of success, but total silence is not one of them. Eventually a product will suffer irreparable damage of its value if a defect goes unresolved. I can name several people that will not own a SDM lens for fear of failure once the warranty expires. This could have been addressed, but has never even been acknowledged by Pentax. That is ashamed, because many are missing out on one of the best lenses optically you can buy, the DA*50-135.

Pentax needs to hire a very excellent Marketing firm to advise them on PR and QC...and then they need to listen and implement the suggestions. It can make a huge difference....and I don't buy the idea that it is a "Japanese Cultural Problem". There was a time, not that long ago when anything with a "Made in Japan" label was considered junk. Look how that changed when they started building great autos, at a reasonable price, and with features that people wanted. It can be done when you listen. There has been plenty written here on PF for them to listen to......I hope they have!
Best Regards
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