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02-14-2011, 08:23 PM   #1
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Everybody's got problems ;)

After reading so much about the K-5's low light AF problems, I think this post from a thread in the dpreview Nikon DSLR forum provides some perspective.

QuoteQuote:
So the bottom line... The D7000 DOES backfocus in tungsten light. It's NOT a case of a few bad apples. It's due to the "new" auto focus system so it seems.
Then count me out.
I sent mine back for service a month ago. I will probably get it back tomorrow. They have gone thorough it thoroughly for several weeks and I really trust the Swedish Nikon Service. So... If there's still problems... I will exchange it for a new one.
And if the problems are still there with the new camera. The D7000 is a crap camera and a disgrace for the Nikon brand.
I suspect that engineers are scrambling at both Pentax and Nikon, and that these problems will get sorted out in the end.

Jeff

02-14-2011, 08:55 PM   #2
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Well, if the nikon back-focuses under tungsten and the Pentax front-focuses in the same conditions, maybe we can smash a D7000 and a K-7 together a la Freaky Friday and get the perfect camera.
02-14-2011, 08:56 PM   #3
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Still, a "crap camera and a disgrace for the Nikon brand"? Wow.

I mean, the D7000 seems to get respectable reviews. I wonder what that guy was expecting.

Occasionally, I have to remind myself of a quote I heard, though the origin of it I don't recall: "Everything is awesome and nobody's happy." I'd like to think that any DSLR bought today, from any brand, is going to be pretty good. Yes, some are better than others, but at the end of the day I could pick up a random camera and do a lot with it. Fall prey to the pitfalls of too much pixel-peeping and you're never going to be happy!

...and then my own paranoia kicks in and I dread the possibility that my future K-5 will not be perfect.
02-14-2011, 11:06 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by GregK8 Quote
Well, if the nikon back-focuses under tungsten and the Pentax front-focuses in the same conditions, maybe we can smash a D7000 and a K-7 together a la Freaky Friday and get the perfect camera.
Well between sharp nose and sharp ear, I am not sure which I prefer.

02-14-2011, 11:09 PM   #5
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I have no idea what I'm talking about, but could this be a sensor issue as they reputedly have the same one?
02-15-2011, 12:14 AM   #6
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No, it's not involved at all in the phase auto focus system.
02-15-2011, 07:21 AM   #7
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No product will ever be better than what consumers are willing to accept. If Toyota buyers were willing to accept cars that accelerated on their own, we would see Toyotas all over America and the world just driving around on their own and smashing into things.

Unfortunately, many, too many, are willing to accept less than what they paid for and that hurts everyone else in the long run.

If there has been a Pentax camera introduced in the past with anywhere near the number of complaints as the K5 has received, I haven't seen it....have you? I have read the archives at several sites, and found nothing even close. For a $1599 camera I expect better than this, and find it hard to believe others don't also.

Will Pentax make it right?.......the clock is ticking, and so far not a peep. I haven't given up, but I am beginning to get a little discouraged.

I would like to see some models starting with 4xxxxxxx and see what the reports are there. If there are any solutions in the works they would be reflected in the latest models.......or not.
Regards
02-15-2011, 07:59 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
No product will ever be better than what consumers are willing to accept....

Unfortunately, many, too many, are willing to accept less than what they paid for and that hurts everyone else in the long run...

Will Pentax make it right?.......the clock is ticking, and so far not a peep. I haven't given up, but I am beginning to get a little discouraged.
If Pentax doesn't fix the K-5's problems - poor low light AF, incorrect exposures with shoe mount flash, and sensor stains - I will be surprised and disappointed. I really expect that they will fix them.

They've acknowledged the sensor stains. They probably will not say anything about the other problems until they've got solutions. I have no technical knowledge about AF, but my gut feeling is that fixing the low-light AF faults will not be trivial.

If I had already purchased a K-5, I would not be so patient. My plan is to buy in June when I've got the money and when I will be in the US. By then, I hope that the problems will be fixed and that the price will have dropped. If not, I will hold off until my next US trip, which will probably be in December.

Jeff

02-15-2011, 08:23 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by LowVoltage Quote
Still, a "crap camera and a disgrace for the Nikon brand"? Wow.

I mean, the D7000 seems to get respectable reviews. I wonder what that guy was expecting...
I confess to picking an especially strongly worded example. That poster also put the word "new" in quotes regarding the D7000's AF. That gave me a kick, because, in fact, it is new, at least compared to the D90.

The D7000 by all accounts is a fine camera. Thom Hogan's review is especially thorough and does not pull punches.

Jeff
02-15-2011, 08:57 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Charles Quote
If Pentax doesn't fix the K-5's problems - poor low light AF, incorrect exposures with shoe mount flash, and sensor stains - I will be surprised and disappointed. I really expect that they will fix them.

They've acknowledged the sensor stains. They probably will not say anything about the other problems until they've got solutions. I have no technical knowledge about AF, but my gut feeling is that fixing the low-light AF faults will not be trivial.

If I had already purchased a K-5, I would not be so patient. My plan is to buy in June when I've got the money and when I will be in the US. By then, I hope that the problems will be fixed and that the price will have dropped. If not, I will hold off until my next US trip, which will probably be in December.

Jeff

Reluctantly, most have come to acknowledge that the K5 has some problems, which is the first step in any effort to get solutions. I don't share your confidence in Pentax making the repairs, but I would like to. SDM has left a very nasty taste in my mouth for how Hoya handles known problems. Still, I see some excellent features in the K5 and if it works properly I would desire it over anything else out there. What is missing for me is some more Official word from Pentax that they were
1) Actually aware of the problems
2) Working on solutions ....or not.
Some communication is always better than leaving your customers or potential customers in the dark. It is one thing to have "Fred" tell us that Pentax is workingon solutions, and another to hear it from Pentax. No one likes to play FedX Roulette....and currently that is the only option. No camera is going to be perfect, and some will always have glitches, but there have been too many snakebit buyers around here and at other sites for comfort.

Regrettably, actual hands-on testing in the US is hardly possible. I bet in this land of 300+ million, there are less than a dozen Dealers where you can actually handle a K5. I held off on the K20D because of that, and when I found one at a Dealer and actually used it, I bought it instantly. I might do the same with a K5, but there are none to hold and test in my small Metroplex of several million people. If you are going to depend on online sales, you had better have an impeccable reputation for your product. Word spreads like wildfire on the internet....good and bad.
Best Regards
02-15-2011, 09:17 AM   #11
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i've gotta say i'm more than willing to go into the red and buy a k-5, and convinced that if i buy from b+h, i'm not gonna get a stained sensor... however, i've read so many posts from some drivers of the k-5, and how they are trying to compensate for the focus issues.. kudos to them.. but i've got no intention whatsoever for jumping through flaming hoops to overcome this problem... i just wanna grab the k-5 and a few lenses and meander about and shoot... and never have to worry whether my efforts were in vain due to a faulty camera....
so, like jeff, i most certainly will be a k-5 when pentax fixes all known bugaboos.... and not a minute before.... but i hope it happens sooner than later.... and have confidence it will be sooner.... here's hoping pentax hoya has learned a valuable lesson, with the k-5 and the k-r as well.... otherwise they're gonna have some tough retail sledding ahead.. and some mighty unhappy pentaxians..... dave m
02-16-2011, 12:12 PM   #12
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We sort of need to take a big breath and calm down. As a (retired) engineering supervisor, (but not in electronics), i've been on the other side of things several times when a crisis like this occurs, and i can tell you its not fun at all. Initially you get calls every hour from sales people and higher up managers: have you solved it yet?, this is really serious? (like you didn't know that). You finally have to tell the higher ups to get off your back and it;ll get fixed when it gets fixed.

Noone wants to have issues like this and every employee is typically very loyal to the company. So you work long hours, go home, sleep, come back the next day knowing you are still no closer to the answer, and this can go on for months at a time. You beg, borrow and steal whatever resources you can find from other parts of the company. Its exhausting work. But don't consider for a moment that Hoya isn't doing all they can to find an answer.

Look at how long its taken Toyota to work on their acceleration problem, and they are a huge company. Hoya will solve this, but it will likely take time.
02-16-2011, 12:30 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by LowVoltage Quote
Still, a "crap camera and a disgrace for the Nikon brand"? Wow.

I mean, the D7000 seems to get respectable reviews. I wonder what that guy was expecting.

Occasionally, I have to remind myself of a quote I heard, though the origin of it I don't recall: "Everything is awesome and nobody's happy." I'd like to think that any DSLR bought today, from any brand, is going to be pretty good. Yes, some are better than others, but at the end of the day I could pick up a random camera and do a lot with it. Fall prey to the pitfalls of too much pixel-peeping and you're never going to be happy!

...and then my own paranoia kicks in and I dread the possibility that my future K-5 will not be perfect.
Another good saying is: "A poor mechanic blames his tools." This is especially true with the majority who want to use a DSLR like a glorified P&S, expecting miracles.
No camera is perfect, and being a good photographer means working around liabilities and challenging conditions while accentuating positives.
02-16-2011, 01:01 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ron Kruger Quote
Another good saying is: "A poor mechanic blames his tools." This is especially true with the majority who want to use a DSLR like a glorified P&S, expecting miracles.
No camera is perfect, and being a good photographer means working around liabilities and challenging conditions while accentuating positives.
I agree. That's why I returned the K-5 and went back to my reliable, non-FF DSLR. At almost 40,000 shots it's never given me as much grief as 3 K-5s did in 6 weeks. In side-by-side focus test in low light the K100DS beat all 3 K-5's in each and every case.
02-16-2011, 02:27 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
We sort of need to take a big breath and calm down. As a (retired) engineering supervisor, (but not in electronics), i've been on the other side of things several times when a crisis like this occurs, and i can tell you its not fun at all. Initially you get calls every hour from sales people and higher up managers: have you solved it yet?, this is really serious? (like you didn't know that). You finally have to tell the higher ups to get off your back and it;ll get fixed when it gets fixed.

Noone wants to have issues like this and every employee is typically very loyal to the company. So you work long hours, go home, sleep, come back the next day knowing you are still no closer to the answer, and this can go on for months at a time. You beg, borrow and steal whatever resources you can find from other parts of the company. Its exhausting work. But don't consider for a moment that Hoya isn't doing all they can to find an answer.

Look at how long its taken Toyota to work on their acceleration problem, and they are a huge company. Hoya will solve this, but it will likely take time.
For Toyota, it was even more difficult - given that there were no acceleration problem
I'm not happy at all about these issues (the replacement still have focusing problems - no stains though, and the flash exposure looks more consistent), but what you say makes sense.
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