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12-29-2011, 10:44 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
they are NOT a professional photographer's company.
As a professional photographer, perhaps you should have signed up for Pentax Professional Services, just like professional Canikon shooters have to;

PENTAX - PENTAX ANNOUNCES PRO PROGRAM: BENEFITS INCLUDE EQUIPMENT LOANS AND EXPEDITED REPAIRS

"Benefits to members of the new PPS program include:
72 hour rush turnaround on most PENTAX digital SLR repairs. (Repair charges may be incurred depending on existing or extended warranty programs.)
Short-term equipment loans that allow photographers to evaluate equipment prior to an actual purchase and/or borrow unique or limited availability lenses for one-time shoots.
Direct access to dedicated customer service representatives in PENTAX headquarters to answer technical questions, arrange product loans, or monitor equipment through the repair process to make sure the repair process is timely."

QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
I wish this were an isolated incident, but apparently not.
The survey you linked to has a grand total of 7 respondents, hardly statistically significant. I like this page from the same site much better:

Pentax vs Canon vs Nikon vs Olympus vs Sony

I'm one of those whose repair experience went smoothly, you don't hear much from us. I sent a DA 70 to Pentax Canada - something was becoming loose internally, much clunking. Off it went, two weeks before Christmas, with me knowing their estimated turn-around was 3-4 weeks. Within two weeks the lens was back in my hands, CLA'd, tight, a jem once again.

12-31-2011, 05:02 AM   #17
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The reviews needn't have statistical significance in order to be significant and valuable. And it is significant that even the page you linked to has Pentax at the bottom in every category.
The reviewer's comments are what is significant here. It's not as though we're talking faulty products alone. This is about a company denying coverage which they promised through their warrantee and/or treating their customers poorly. This should never happen. The site was not simply a rating based site. It allowed for lengthy comments and any objective reader taking the time to read through them can clearly see that Pentax's service was subpar, to put it lightly.
The other link was more significant and was what I referred to when I said that this is not an isolated incident. That is of major significance in the same ways as the other and also has much statistical significance, as it's an across the board problem affecting customers in many countries. This link speaks of a major fault in their manufacturing that went unaddressed by Pentax.
If you'd read through the link with the personal complaints, you'd have seen mine, which described just a bit of my story this past year with the company. I've wished Pentax had a program for working professional photographers for years.

I did call them asking them to sign up for this program.
I was told flat out that they did not have one. I was also told that they didn't think they could help with the issues I was having with my e-dial and sensor spots, "but if I insisted on sending it in", the turnaround time would be twelve weeks. When I asked how I was supposed to work without my camera for twelve weeks, I was given very rude and dismissive non-answers. It was only months later when I got fed up and called them telling them I was going to report them to Pentax directly(the warrantee and repairs are handled by a third party company) for their lack of service, that suddenly I was told they would rush my repair through and that "I'm sorry you were not told of the pro program, we don't like to advertise it".

I have names of employees, dates and times for all of my conversations with them.

I wrote this not as a rebuttal to your reply, but because I wanted to let people know. I am telling of my situation to inform people.
If it doesn't apply to you, that's a good thing. But you shouldn't ignorantly defend anything, especially not a company before you know the whole story.
I believe those links I posted are significant whether or not you agree.
I have also met many people over the years who've had similar experiences with Pentax and seen many an ad on Craigslist go up where someone is selling their gear for similar reasons.
I was warned by someone a couple of years ago that for my wedding photography business, I should not go with Pentax because they lack in this area.

These kinds of posts, grounded in real events, are important.
Hopefully others can avoid the same problem, or maybe someone from Pentax imaging will see this and be inclined to do something about it to improve in this area.
I've got a drawer full of B&H receipts adding up to over 10k for Pentax gear alone in the last three years. That may not be much to everyone, but it's a lot to me and I would have thought, a lot to Pentax, too. B&H certainly seems to appreciate my business.
I strongly supported Pentax and always went out of my way to hip people to their build and image quality.
But being a defender of a company when they're not doing the right thing is rubbish.
I used to defend Pentax because I thought they made the best gear in their price-point, hands down.
Because I thought that in-body stabilization was a more intelligent and certainly less expensive system to own. I thought and still think that they've got some of the best optics in the world and that their weather sealing is unmatched at, and far above their price-point.
I could go on and on listing all of the reasons why I think Pentax gear is so cool.
As previously stated, though, for a customer, and I think enthusiast, too, that's only part of a company. Customer service, support, and coverage when something goes wrong is what you pay for when you buy equipment.
I used to recommend the k7 to everyone. I shoot video professionally and I turned many people on through my YouTube movies(shown by comments of people saying that they went with the k7 because they saw the quality of my work). I did side by side comparisons and showed how the k7 blew the 5d mkii away in the stabilization category and how Pentax's image quality was on par with some of the best out there.
I've had only a couple of posts on here because I'm not someone who enjoys posting on the web, but I've benefitted from Pentax Forums for a couple of years now and I thought this was something some users might want to know.

Also when I hear about someone having difficulty with something, I don't tell them it's not statistically significant. Do you really think that person cares? To them the statistic is 100% failure. Usually "sorry you had a bad experience" - might be a nice way to begin and then you can go on to offer your positive experience.
Since I've already told much of the story, I'll finish it for users who may be interested to know.
Because I had been previously told they had no pro-coverage, the supervisor I spoke with said they were going to make an exception when I told them I was going to contact pentax corporate offices and when I told them I'd met Ned Bunnell and had a great conversation with him about Pentax.(I believed he really cared about Pentax and quality and doing things "differently".
He said that they would rush my repair through and that if it was delayed beyond two weeks, I'd receive a loaner, just as someone on their coverage plan would.
I said this was a good start and thanked him, despite his rudeness just prior to my mention of the President of Pentax for the Americas.
I called a few days later when I had received the shipping label and was ready to send it out, and not only was I told that he never said that, this guy(whose voice I recognized as the person whom I'd last spoken with) gave me a different name.
Turns out he switched between his middle and first name on different days, but the reality is, he knew exactly who I was and wanted to give me the whole "I don't know who you spoke with" line, so he actually resorted to giving me a different name.
The whole thing was so absurd and difficult to believe that I gave up on Pentax.
I sent a long letter to Pentax describing in detail what had occurred, and received no response.

I won't spend my money with a company who cares so little about customer service that they'd outsource their coverage and to a cheap, 2nd rate subcontractor with no customer service skills.
The false apology the day the empty promise was made was the only one I received.
So, I'll spend my money elsewhere.
12-31-2011, 08:55 AM   #18
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I think that in general all camera supplier dont have great service for the consumer end of their product lines.
If you search DPreview, you will find complaints for every brand.
I have to agree that your story is not great
12-31-2011, 09:49 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
The reviews needn't have statistical significance in order to be significant and valuable
Actually, yes they do. There's just anecdotes otherwise. Just like my anecdote.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
And it is significant that even the page you linked to has Pentax at the bottom in every category.
No, it's not, and no, they weren't. Sony and Nikon were both rated lower.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
The other link was more significant and was what I referred to when I said that this is not an isolated incident. That is of major significance in the same ways as the other and also has much statistical significance, as it's an across the board problem affecting customers in many countries.
You plainly have no idea what 'statistical significance' means.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
I've wished Pentax had a program for working professional photographers for years.
It was introduced in 2008.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
But you shouldn't ignorantly defend anything, especially not a company before you know the whole story.
Nice, I'm ignorant.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
Also when I hear about someone having difficulty with something, I don't tell them it's not statistically significant.
I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
Usually "sorry you had a bad experience" - might be a nice way to begin and then you can go on to offer your positive experience.
OK, I've made a note, hopefully my future posts will meet your standards.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
...not only was I told that he never said that, this guy(whose voice I recognized as the person whom I'd last spoken with) gave me a different name.
Turns out he switched between his middle and first name on different days, but the reality is, he knew exactly who I was and wanted to give me the whole "I don't know who you spoke with" line, so he actually resorted to giving me a different name.
Well, judging by the way you twisted my simple little post into something it's not, you'll forgive me if I don't believe this.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
I sent a long letter to Pentax describing in detail what had occurred, and received no response.
They're probably still reading it.

12-31-2011, 04:45 PM   #20
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I couldn't care less whether or not you believe my post. You're trying to play a game of semantics which you clearly haven't the shoes for, but if you think I'm going to waste my time picking apart your inane responses, you're obviously overtaken by your delicate sensibilities which first led you misperceive this posting as a personal affront.
But, if you're so desirous of foolery, I can play the recorded conversations for you on youtube which I kept to protect myself as a consumer, and I can share the emails from the person with two names who later admitted he uses both,
if you'd agree to go on youtube and admit you're a buffoon when you realize you've been commenting in utter ignorance.
Whether or not you can fathom the story I told with only your limited scope and misguided interpretations of the English language to aid you, is something I don't think anyone on here is interested in.
I wrote on here to inform. I usually avoid writing on these forums to keep away from those with nothing better to do with their time than write to people and then accuse of dishonesty, but still take the time to write. Gosh, life must really be evading you.
I could go point by point and defend the statements I've made, but...I won't. Unless there were some kind of pointless discussion prize.
The only thing you were correct about was that Pentax was not the worst rated on that site. If you do the math, they were a tenth of a percent better than the bottom two. That's significant...lol.
Addressing subpar service by comparing to other companies with low standards, isn't logical, by the way.
The exceptions are equally important in these types of cases. Logic, ethics, consumer rights, anyone?
I spoke not comparatively. Making irrelevant comparisons is usually what people do when they're desperate to win an argument, instead of come to an understanding. People like you, it seems, do not understand that if every other company behaved in a worse manner, that wouldn't make this kind of treatment right. Therefore any comparative statements to other companies are moot here.
But lost in your mental torpor, that must be a difficult concept to apprehend.
Notice you've not addressed the stories given by consumers who've been mistreated. I guess you can have fun quoting the statements from those people and showing everyone here how diligent you are in contributing nothing valuable at all to the conversation.
Get a hobby.
Oh, and writing on here doesn't count as photography.

Pentax still makes the best glass in my opinion! That's why this TRUE story stinks. Can't beat those colors! That's called remaining objective.(or relative objectivity, at least)



Happy New Year, everyone!
12-31-2011, 05:37 PM   #21
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The ONLY opinion that matters is your own based on personal experience. It's useless telling people how wonderful such and such's service is when your own experience has been the opposite.
12-31-2011, 06:19 PM   #22
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Lord, I can almost feel the spittle coming through my monitor!
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
...you're obviously overtaken by your delicate sensibilities which first led you misperceive this posting as a personal affront.
You're right, whatever could have given me that impression?
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
if you're so desirous of foolery
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
admit you're a buffoon
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
lost in your mental torpor, that must be a difficult concept to apprehend(sic).
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
you've been commenting in utter ignorance
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
Whether or not you can fathom the story I told with only your limited scope and misguided interpretations of the English language to aid you, is something I don't think anyone on here is interested in.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
those with nothing better to do with their time than write to people and then accuse of dishonesty, but still take the time to write. Gosh, life must really be evading you.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
I guess you can have fun quoting the statements from those people and showing everyone here how diligent you are in contributing nothing valuable at all to the conversation.
That's the classic 'strawman' fallacy, but my favourite is:
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
You're trying to play a game of semantics which you clearly haven't the shoes for
Still trying to figure out what shoes have to do with it. Oh, and you should google 'semantics', I don't think you know what that means either.

If that's the tone you used in your communications with CRIS I'm not surprised they're not returning your calls.
QuoteOriginally posted by BrightStar Quote
Get a hobby.
Oh, and writing on here doesn't count as photography.
OK Mr. Two-Posts, thanks for setting me straight.
01-02-2012, 12:31 AM   #23
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So, statistical significance means what? I have never seen a p value on camera reviews. You guys crack me up.

01-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #24
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It's clear your only intention is to argue and although I can go point by point and prove that your comments very obviously fall under a straw man fallacy argument, I have no interest.
Again, you must not know the definition of semantics as it relates to syntax, because your picking apart of my individual words and misinterpreting the entire meaning of the statement is precisely a semantics issue.
Anyway, it's boring to speak with someone whose only goal is to spew contrary uninformed opinion for their own personal reasons.
I'd much prefer to speak with some of the other very knowledgeable Pentaxians on here and learn something.

At no point did I say I'd spoken with CRIS. There you go assuming, again.
Reread my posts and you'll see I said I had the issues I described with the subcontractor which fields Pentax's calls.

Considering you said outright that you didn't believe my statements, why are you still here?

Get lost, creep.
01-05-2012, 11:29 AM   #25
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When my new K-5 arrives tomorrow, there better not be any signs of use or I'll be sending it back for a full cash refund. I noticed that Newegg doesn't sell the Pentax camera brand anymore and they are a huge online retailer. I am not the kind of person that does warranty repair either. I'll buy a new item, throw the defective unit in the box and return it as damaged if I need too. I don't believe a mega rich Japanese company such as Pentax should get away with defective issues such as the one above in the youtube vid. And they should do a recall on those bad batch cameras along with the bad serial numbers that go with them. Car companies do recalls all the time on their junk. Camera companies should do the same so a customer can decide on whether or not they might want to replace with NEW instead of having a defective unit sit in repair for 3 months.
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