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02-23-2011, 02:20 AM   #1
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K-5 AF trouble catch-all

I'm opening this thread in anticipation of Falk's upcoming post and in an attempt/experiment to organize the discussion a bit. The idea is that posts that are not strictly relevant to the specialized threads (see below) we currently have should go here. Note that this being an experiment means that this thread might soon be closed as a failed one .

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/134215-lumolabs-pentax...published.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/129738-k-5-user-auto-foc...t-results.html

[I'll add other subtopic threads above if need be.]


Last edited by jolepp; 02-23-2011 at 06:12 AM.
02-23-2011, 02:31 AM   #2
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for those in the industry and for forum Admin { Adam}

how much weight does the Pentax user forum carry within the Pentax world..should we as a body organise ourselves in a forum sponsored petition to inform pentax of our woes ? ..or would that be fruitless or not needed ?

My concerns are also for the KR users , that are seemingly out on their own due to the body not being in the Pro arena and as such not considered an issue for Pentax as much as the K5 ?

while in 95% of my current shooting the FF doesn't get in the way..but as life changes, so may my shooting desires what then ?
02-23-2011, 06:12 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
for those in the industry and for forum Admin { Adam}

how much weight does the Pentax user forum carry within the Pentax world..should we as a body organise ourselves in a forum sponsored petition to inform pentax of our woes ? ..or would that be fruitless or not needed ?

My concerns are also for the KR users , that are seemingly out on their own due to the body not being in the Pro arena and as such not considered an issue for Pentax as much as the K5 ?

while in 95% of my current shooting the FF doesn't get in the way..but as life changes, so may my shooting desires what then ?
I think that Pentax USA is acutely aware of the FF issue. I had a very long telephone conversation with the K-5 Product Manager in Golden, Colorado the day before I sent back my K-5. I sent samples to him along with a few examples he asked me to shoot. In a follow-up email I offered to supply as many additional examples as he wanted from users around the world (i.e. I was going to ask users on this forum to supply test photos for me to forward). He stated that it would not be necessary since he had all of the data necessary to pursue the issue.

However, additional pressure in the form of a petition can not hurt. The other thing that wouldn't hurt is for all of the affected users to periodically call their local Pentax Customer Support staff and 1) report the problem and 2) ask if there is a solution to the problem.

I will also be sending my contact at Pentax a link to Falk's paper.
02-23-2011, 06:15 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommot1965 Quote
for those in the industry and for forum Admin { Adam}

how much weight does the Pentax user forum carry within the Pentax world..should we as a body organise ourselves in a forum sponsored petition to inform pentax of our woes ? ..or would that be fruitless or not needed ?

My concerns are also for the KR users , that are seemingly out on their own due to the body not being in the Pro arena and as such not considered an issue for Pentax as much as the K5 ?

while in 95% of my current shooting the FF doesn't get in the way..but as life changes, so may my shooting desires what then ?
+1.......... with so many global forum folks, you'd think pentax/hoya would stand up and take notice... we've got some heavy hitters, tech wise, i.e. falk et al, who have been able to post/discuss the k-5 (and k-r) and it's focus issues.... in an articulated and illuminating manner.... outside of admitting, globally, that k-5's were sensor stained (now, hopefully, no longer an issue), i've read postings from pentax usa noting that they do not acknowledge this 'issue'.....
seems like those at pentax taking the 'point', (customer service)are taking customers questions/angst/anger, falling on the corporate sword...... glad it's not MY job.......... to our mods..... is ned bunnell the man (in north america) our best bet to start a prospective dialogue???
regards, dave m

02-23-2011, 09:25 AM   #5
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Why not have the Mods start a thread stating the concerns and request for a fix, and then just have all the members sign it and list their position as a K5 owner, or potential owners? No comments, just their signature as being in agreement with the statement presented by the staff?
Regards
02-23-2011, 09:41 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Why not have the Mods start a thread stating the concerns and request for a fix, and then just have all the members sign it and list their position as a K5 owner, or potential owners? No comments, just their signature as being in agreement with the statement presented by the staff?
Regards
Jim, are you familiar with the phrase "As much impact as a fart in a whirlwind"?
Pentax, like any other corporation, exists for one purpose only; to make money. They are going to do a cost/benefit analysis weighing several options. I suspect among them are developing a firmware fix, hardware fix, completely new model, and just ignoring the problem. Whichever one of those is going to result in the largest black number (or smallest red number) on the bottom line is what they will do.
I think they probably do pay attention to what goes on here, but I am not sure that the numbers here are large enough that including or excluding them from their analysis would change the results any.
02-23-2011, 10:29 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Jim, are you familiar with the phrase "As much impact as a fart in a whirlwind"?
Pentax, like any other corporation, exists for one purpose only; to make money. They are going to do a cost/benefit analysis weighing several options. I suspect among them are developing a firmware fix, hardware fix, completely new model, and just ignoring the problem. Whichever one of those is going to result in the largest black number (or smallest red number) on the bottom line is what they will do.
I think they probably do pay attention to what goes on here, but I am not sure that the numbers here are large enough that including or excluding them from their analysis would change the results any.
I agree with you Jim, and you are no doubt correct....why do I have this feeling that if I had written that I might be in trouble?
It is a money game, and not exclusive to Pentax, all corporations play the same game, even when lives are on the line. Still, a letter as I suggested might make some of us feel better, like we had done something? They most likely wouldn't hear it, but if it is never sent, we know they won't.
Best Regards!
02-23-2011, 10:59 AM   #8
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Customers usually vote with their feet (or money), meaning they take their money elsewhere if not happy. That's the only thing businesses understand.
Pentax will likely incorporate the findings/solution in the K3 (or whatever it will be called).

02-23-2011, 11:24 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I agree with you Jim, and you are no doubt correct....why do I have this feeling that if I had written that I might be in trouble?
Because you seem to somehow be able to get in trouble drinking a glass of water.
Seriously, that isn't a negative comment. It was meant to be factual. I own a bicycle shop. I actually don't care all that much about bicycles, but I have become quite fond of eating regularly and living indoors.
Businesses are in business to earn money. In the case of a publicly traded corporation such as Hoya, they have to act in the best interest of their shareholders.
02-23-2011, 12:18 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Because you seem to somehow be able to get in trouble drinking a glass of water.
Seriously, that isn't a negative comment. It was meant to be factual. I own a bicycle shop. I actually don't care all that much about bicycles, but I have become quite fond of eating regularly and living indoors.
Businesses are in business to earn money. In the case of a publicly traded corporation such as Hoya, they have to act in the best interest of their shareholders.
Hmmm....I forgot that you know me!

Sometimes doing the right thing coincides with the interests of the company.....for the past 20+ years my Plumbing business has prospered by always keeping this forefront and above the bottom line. As it worked out for me, the bottom line was the biggest beneficiary. Of course, I only had one shareholder to answer to, Mrs Rupert. She didn't care much what I did as long as every customer I ever had spoke highly of me when she came across them. I never failed her.
Best Regards
02-23-2011, 01:22 PM   #11
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They may as well call the next model the KY, if they don't address the K5 auto focus and flash issues. That way people won't be surprised when they get screwed on the new model too.

My K5 arrived yesterday and test shots showed a consistent spot that dust mapping did not reveal. Using my blower did not dislodge it. I sent it back to B&H today. With my hand tremor, cleaning the sensor myself is not an option. It would cost me $60 to have it cleaned locally. I thought about doing so, but then this voice in my head said, " You just spent $1468 on a new camera body. You shouldn't have to fork over another $60 for a sensor cleaning on brand new camera after your first test shots." I decided to head that voice. B&H sent prepaid shipping for me to return the camera for exchange, but I am having second thoughts. I would be really pissed if Pentax didn't fix the autofocus issue and instead waited for the next model. Can we say zero resale value on the K5?
02-23-2011, 05:43 PM   #12
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back to Nikon land

Frankly, I am not expecting a fix from Pentax. It doesn't look like a simple linear solution. It doesn't look like a problem that Pentax expected.
If it comes to hardware fix, I am sure Pentax would decide otherwise. There are already so many units returned for sensor stain.

Very very few pros use Pentax - and so there is very little pressure on Pentax to get the camera 100% right.

It is disappointing. If I go through my photos, many of them are indoors under tungsten or mixed light, using prime lenses. I can not knowingly buy a faulty 1500$ camera.It is not even guaranteed to work correctly with flash. Even the people who are buying the camera now, are getting ones with a lot of dust spots that require wet cleaning. I don't know how people can accept that. But I don't want to wet clean my brand new camera.

I sold my D700 recently and have been waiting for Pentax to sort things out. With this analysis, I have lost my hope. I think I will remain camera-less until Nikon announces the new generation of FF, that should knock down a couple of hundred from D700's price. And that is such a lovely camera. So many things are right about that cam.

In the meantime, if X100 gets good reviews, I may buy that to take photos until D700.


cheers,

Abhi
02-23-2011, 06:08 PM   #13
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Is FF bigger than SDM?

if not, then don't expect pentax to respond.
the SDM issue was "loud" on both forums but pentax did nothing.

the FF issue is on both K5 and KR and is pretty "loud" as well, but is it loud enough that pentax does something about it?

how many real-world users shoot wide open in very low light, go 100% and find FF and complain?

i guess some folks who don't read these forums don't even know they have that "issue".
what you don't know won't hurt and end up blaming operator error.

Last edited by opiedog; 02-23-2011 at 06:17 PM.
02-23-2011, 07:06 PM   #14
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I've explored the options, I guess most have, and think it is worth a little more waiting to see what happens. I do have the X100 coming, but not as a replacement by any means, just as a sort of walkabout.
If you look at the K5, the size, the weatherproofing, the many great features not found on other cameras, and the excellent photos we see posted here and at other sites, even at very high ISO values, it seems to me that it is worth a little more time before giving up.

I'm not any happier about these problems than anyone else, and I have suffered a past SDM failure, but in all fairness, I have had three absolutely fantastic and trouble free years with my K20D and must add that to the good side of Pentax. Most of us are not in a life or death situation here, although I do sympathize with the needs of some that do weddings and such, and feel their frustration. For me, the K5 would be perfect....I'm willing to give it some time, if I am right, I will be glad I did.
Best Regards
02-23-2011, 07:40 PM   #15
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I don't see how this wouldn't be a firmware fix. The camera knows the EV, and it already has the capability for fine tuning AF on a per lens basis. Those 2 capabilities together add up to a pure software fix is my best guess, not additional hardware.
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