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03-06-2011, 08:46 AM   #46
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Bad news for Pentax

Well, I'm a little upset. The k-5 problem just seems to be getting worse by the day and the company is not standing behind the problem as they should- a month or more in the shop for repair is not standing behind the problem! It's like they're holding their own inferior quality control processes against the customer- keep doing this Pentax and see how much longer you're in business. Waiting I guess for the D800!

03-06-2011, 09:42 AM   #47
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I don't think the stain issue has been resolved fully. I bought a K5 from B&H with a January build date and it had a sensor stain. I've used Pentax cameras for 36 years, so I guess I could be considered a loyal customer. I had a decision to make when I returned my K5. Did I want to risk another stained sensor and/or the FF issue. My ultimate answer was "no". Rumors aside, we haven't heard anything official from Pentax about the focusing issues yet. Since it's #24 on Amazon, I suspect Pentax is going screw the early adopters on this. They have no reason to be quick about the replacement of defective products. Their bread is being buttered by new customers right now. It was a painful decision, but I've sold my limited lenses, DA* lenses and my K7 and have purchased a Nikon D700. The body has proven to be reliable and has come down $300 in price of late (I suspect the D800 will be making an appearance soon, but it would be out of my price range). It is very strange seeing "Nikon" on my camera, but the image quality is gorgeous. Nikon's owners manual is amazing and made me realize how really poor Pentax's efforts are in this area. If Pentax ever begins creating a reliable camera bodies again, I would happily return, but there is no road map for Pentax bodies right now and their best offering, the K5, is not a viable product given the quality and design problems, that Pentax doesn't seem able/willing to fix.
03-06-2011, 11:25 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
. . . Since it's #24 on Amazon, I suspect Pentax is going screw the early adopters on this. They have no reason to be quick about the replacement of defective products. Their bread is being buttered by new customers right now.
Innovators and Early Adopters always take more risk than the Early Majority. Late Majority followers often get a better price for an accepted product, with early flaws corrected - but they have a product nearing or past its peak, about to be or already replaced by newer technology and, frankly, not as cool.

Something like paying $50 for an iPhone 3Gs at AT&T right now.

Technology Adoption Curve
  • Innovators tend to be more educated and prosperous, with a greater tolerance for risk
  • Early adopters are younger, educated, and active in the community
  • Early majority are more conservative, but open to new ideas and influential within the community
  • Late majority may be older, less educated, conservative, and less socially active
  • Laggards are highly conservative, oldest and least educated. They often are less prosperous and more risk averse
While I empathize with all of you and hate to see this happen to Pentax, my plan has always been to wait until much later in the product cycle to upgrade to the K-5. I plan for it to last me 3 - 5 years, as my K10D has.

I'm not ashamed to be labeled Late Majority. I might argue with the less educated part, though.

EDIT: to add content.

Last edited by monochrome; 03-07-2011 at 03:13 PM.
03-06-2011, 11:33 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I don't know if you are serious or not, but Pentax as a company would likely not exist at this point were it not for Hoya. Pentax was well on it's way to bankruptcy, and they needed a White Knight to save them from going out of business entirely.
I doubt that. Pentax was profitable and the K10D, quite a success - bankruptcy is on the other direction SDM was introduced in the same period, certainly designed by the old Pentax.
Looking at what happened in the recent years, I believe the deal with Hoya was/is a good thing; they aren't "despicable" and Pentax isn't nowhere near being "run into the ground". People should be able to jump ship without using such strong and untrue words about the system they're leaving...

03-06-2011, 11:42 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
While I empathize with all of you and hate to see this happen to Pentax, my plan has always been to wait until much later in the product cycle to upgrade to the K-5. I plan for it to last me 3 - 5 years, as my K10D has.
Yeah, that's my take as well. I haven't paid more than $600-700 for a DSLR body yet. (K-7 seems about right these days) But then, my stuff is "obsolete" from the moment I open the box. I can live with that.
03-06-2011, 11:43 AM   #51
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I think what he was saying is that if you have a finite amount of resources is it wise to focus on dyed to match cameras and lenses at the expense of fixing your higher end gear? I don't think the poster was implying that an engineer was doing the painting.[/U][/U]
03-06-2011, 12:26 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I doubt that. Pentax was profitable and the K10D, quite a success - bankruptcy is on the other direction SDM was introduced in the same period, certainly designed by the old Pentax.
Looking at what happened in the recent years, I believe the deal with Hoya was/is a good thing; they aren't "despicable" and Pentax isn't nowhere near being "run into the ground". People should be able to jump ship without using such strong and untrue words about the system they're leaving...
The K10 was released pretty much at the same time Hoya announced their takeover, and while I'm not privy to the finances, it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a cash injection from Hoya to allow Pentax to keep operating.
Whether Pentax would have had the financial resources to release the K10 or any subsequent cameras without Hoya's cash injection is debatable.

Japane optics maker Hoya to buy Pentax | BookRags.com
QuoteQuote:
While Hoya has posted three straight years of increasing net income, Pentax has seen its profits mostly flat and falling. Hoya has also seen rising sales, compared with relatively stagnant sales at Pentax.
The reason people don't like Hoya is because they decided that if they were going to own Pentax, then Pentax had to be a money maker.
Hence the whinging from a while back regarding lens price increases from the people who felt Pentax should still be the cheap and dirty player in the game.
Now that Pentax is growing, they are also going to be prone to all of the growing pains that the bigger players have to deal with, and so will we.

Every camera company so far has had some sort of annoying QC issue.
As far as them "coming clean"
QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Riley:
Frankly everyone who sent their camera back should have gotten a description of what the process was going to be (clean, replace sensor or replace camera) along with a realistic estimate on when they would have a camera again.
They would have to make this a policy for every single warranty repair they do from now going forward.
Personally, I don't think this is especially realistic, and would just be yet another drain on their resources.
Unfortunately, the warranty process only compels them to fix defective cameras, it doesn't compel them to write each person affected an individual letter of apology signed in blood by the CEO of the company, which I get the feeling is what some people think they deserve.

Last edited by jolepp; 03-06-2011 at 12:45 PM. Reason: poster request
03-06-2011, 01:46 PM   #53
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I'm quite certain there wasn't any Hoya cash injection involved into the K10D (but most likely, loans with very good interest rates, typical for the pre-crisis Japan). The talks about the merger started too late for that, and the deal itself wasn't completed when the K10D was launched - it never would. In fact, as you probably remember the Pentax board rejected the merger - thinking they can go alone. Without the pressure from SPARX&co, maybe the buy-out would have also failed.

That Pentax must be a money maker, it's OK; important is what is a "money maker" in Hoya's vision So far so good - I like the K-5 (if only they would fix the remaining issues...), they finally launched the 645D and even the colored K-r's are a smart way of making money with almost no investment.

loveisageless, no offence but you're making the same mistake: there is no "at the expense".
This, or Bonnie Pink is a software engineer with years of experience in embedded systems - and she's working full time in delivering us the rumored firmware fix

03-06-2011, 03:14 PM   #54
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people complain too much about the colored K-x and K-r cameras not realizing the Japanese and Asian camera culture. Many young photographers want to distinguish themselves from others and have equipment that fit their fashion. I do not consider this a bad thing at all.

Every electronic device has more color options in Japan than it has in Europe or the US.

It helps selling cameras for Pentax. So why complain about colors?

I also have the feeling people are making the problems even bigger. Sure there is some front focus in certain conditions. The stains issues was was a problem at the wrong time. But it is not that Pentax is the only company with issues. Past years electronics in general saw a decline in quality control. This is not unique to Pentax.
03-06-2011, 04:43 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rin Quote
people complain too much about the colored K-x and K-r cameras not realizing the Japanese and Asian camera culture. Many young photographers want to distinguish themselves from others and have equipment that fit their fashion. I do not consider this a bad thing at all.

Every electronic device has more color options in Japan than it has in Europe or the US.

It helps selling cameras for Pentax. So why complain about colors?

I also have the feeling people are making the problems even bigger. Sure there is some front focus in certain conditions. The stains issues was was a problem at the wrong time. But it is not that Pentax is the only company with issues. Past years electronics in general saw a decline in quality control. This is not unique to Pentax.
Also, I doubt that it took a whole lot of engineering and expense to color some plastic bodies.
03-06-2011, 06:57 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Yeah, that's my take as well. I haven't paid more than $600-700 for a DSLR body yet. (K-7 seems about right these days) But then, my stuff is "obsolete" from the moment I open the box. I can live with that.
The only reason we know out purchases are "obsolete" is because we read blogs and magazines. To me, anyway, every new purchase is a major technological advance.
03-06-2011, 10:29 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
Nikon D700. The body has proven to be reliable and has come down $300 in price of late
Really, I've been price watching for a friend. Where has the price dropped and to what level?
03-06-2011, 10:55 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Like Dave and many others I do have my K20D, etc... but it stinks to pay $1500 for a product and then have to go without it for a couple of months because of a manufacturing error and then a quality control failure.


bobmaxja & jaybee... I trust my store (local brick and mortar) and I trust their staff. The person who gave them the number is their Pentax Rep, thus it is an official statement from Pentax, not hearsay. Also doubtful that the number was 63-100(s). 1. that would be a strange number for someone to lie with and 2. that is an insignificant number that would not lead to extended delays in delivering new cameras to the retail store or their customers.


sterretje... As I said about I bought locally as well. They actually offered an exchange when I took the camera in, but I tested all 3 of the K-5s they had in stock and they were all stained so no joy there.


DWB... when I say they need to "step up" is that they need to be more forthcoming about what they are doing about the issue. We've heard several stories about how they are handling the returns. "They are cleaning the sensors." They are replacing the sensors." "They are replacing the entire camera." Which is it??? They should make an official announcement on the website and be frank and honest about how long it will take before you have a K-5 back in your hands.

The point is. when a company experiences a problem like this which is going to cost them a ton of money, while they are better off in the short run, evading or trying to hide the issue, it ends up costing them far more in the long run. Far better to admit the problem up front and pledge to do everything possible to make things right. This will increase customer trust and down-the-road loyalty both of which increase down-the-road profits.
My concern is that these stains are not simply a quality control issue but rather a design issue. Numerous users have indicated that the stains develop over time under use and become more significant. I'm not at all comforted by a simple sensor replacement if the real issue has not been identified and resolved. It makes me think even a factory-clean K5 will develop these stains under use and at some point the camera will fall out of warranty. The real shame of it is I really want one of these cameras- it's the hottest, newest, most feature packed DSLR and I could care less that it's APS-c or not- but was lucky enough not to have ordered one before seeing many forums and threads confirming these disturbing operational issues. Yet worse, as far as I can tell, is the way Pentax seems to be handling the problem. I'm not buying the K5 unless I know they stand behind the product and are going to satisfy me as a customer without making my life more difficult in the process, and quite frankly, right now I don't feel good about giving them my money anytime soon. I would switch over to Nikon or Canon right now, but lets say I don't even know how either sells any cameras because their individual lines are so cross-branded, diluted, and in fact at current, largely obsolete. But, maybe it's time to take a closer look!
03-07-2011, 06:40 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Brensdae Quote
Yet worse, as far as I can tell, is the way Pentax seems to be handling the problem. I'm not buying the K5 unless I know they stand behind the product and are going to satisfy me as a customer without making my life more difficult in the process, and quite frankly, right now I don't feel good about giving them my money anytime soon. I would switch over to Nikon or Canon right now, but lets say I don't even know how either sells any cameras because their individual lines are so cross-branded, diluted, and in fact at current, largely obsolete. But, maybe it's time to take a closer look!
Pentax is repairing or replacing problem cameras. What more do you think they should be doing?
I suppose some people might think the President of the company should hand deliver the replacement camera, but this isn't especially realistic.
The store I bought from has already indicated to me that if my camera develops stains, they will get a new on for me and do an OTC exchange for me.
What more could a person ask for?

I suppose one could ask for any number of Canons or Nikons that have come factory fresh with serious flaws.
But they won't have the President of the company hand deliver a replacement either.
03-07-2011, 08:24 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Brensdae Quote
My concern is that these stains are not simply a quality control issue but rather a design issue. Numerous users have indicated that the stains develop over time under use and become more significant. I'm not at all comforted by a simple sensor replacement if the real issue has not been identified and resolved. It makes me think even a factory-clean K5 will develop these stains under use and at some point the camera will fall out of warranty. The real shame of it is I really want one of these cameras- it's the hottest, newest, most feature packed DSLR and I could care less that it's APS-c or not- but was lucky enough not to have ordered one before seeing many forums and threads confirming these disturbing operational issues. Yet worse, as far as I can tell, is the way Pentax seems to be handling the problem. I'm not buying the K5 unless I know they stand behind the product and are going to satisfy me as a customer without making my life more difficult in the process, and quite frankly, right now I don't feel good about giving them my money anytime soon. I would switch over to Nikon or Canon right now, but lets say I don't even know how either sells any cameras because their individual lines are so cross-branded, diluted, and in fact at current, largely obsolete. But, maybe it's time to take a closer look!
Hmmm, I wonder if donallison13 has come back with a new user ID.

Bottom line is this: Pentax is replacing the cameras as fast as they can given their production schedules. And so far, none of the replaced units has been reported as having the issue. Search and read the posts, this has been beat to death. If it's an issue for you buy something else for God's sake.
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