Just how big is the K-5 "stain" problem?

RonHendriks1966 · 03-05-2011, 05:22 AM

Well I think a great chunck of the camera's produced from september to mid-december is to be replaced. So, no surprise that this is taking more time then anyone would want.

sterretje · 03-05-2011, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by Purusam

Are you kidding ?

Im not waiting 3 month for something i already payed for. Ive been waiting for something like 50 days now
Grrrrrr

I think the problem is huge, and they are already out of stock in pentax belgium whi is delevering to all europe ? or just the nordic countries like norway sweden and soumi finland and denmark

No, not kidding

Reported the problem beginning of december; confirmed by the local Pentax repair centre mid december. There was one other K5 in stock and it was send to my dealer for swap; they checked it and it was also affected

Got mine back with the message to use it as much as possible till replacement arrives. Which I basically do.

And to make things worse for me: we get our stock from Europe. I will be highly upset if you get your replacement before me

MRRiley · 03-05-2011, 06:04 AM

Like Dave and many others I do have my K20D, etc... but it stinks to pay $1500 for a product and then have to go without it for a couple of months because of a manufacturing error and then a quality control failure.

bobmaxja & jaybee... I trust my store (local brick and mortar) and I trust their staff. The person who gave them the number is their Pentax Rep, thus it is an official statement from Pentax, not hearsay. Also doubtful that the number was 63-100(s). 1. that would be a strange number for someone to lie with and 2. that is an insignificant number that would not lead to extended delays in delivering new cameras to the retail store or their customers.

sterretje... As I said about I bought locally as well. They actually offered an exchange when I took the camera in, but I tested all 3 of the K-5s they had in stock and they were all stained so no joy there.

DWB... when I say they need to "step up" is that they need to be more forthcoming about what they are doing about the issue. We've heard several stories about how they are handling the returns. "They are cleaning the sensors." They are replacing the sensors." "They are replacing the entire camera." Which is it??? They should make an official announcement on the website and be frank and honest about how long it will take before you have a K-5 back in your hands.

The point is. when a company experiences a problem like this which is going to cost them a ton of money, while they are better off in the short run, evading or trying to hide the issue, it ends up costing them far more in the long run. Far better to admit the problem up front and pledge to do everything possible to make things right. This will increase customer trust and down-the-road loyalty both of which increase down-the-road profits.

AGWoodard · 03-05-2011, 06:06 AM

I was set to order a K5 the week the stain problem really broke, and I have held off. Not even been hanging around here to see what is happening,

Stopped in yesterday and this whole forum is full of people with cameras in the repair facility, focus issues, stains showing up after some time. It's a mess.

The FanBoys can tell me how great a camera the K5 is, yada yada yada all day long, but the facts don't change a thing. Hoya killed Pentax. I hope they are proud.

It's over. Some 30 plus years of shooting Pentax and now it's finally over.

I really expected to see that the issues were worked out with the K5 when I logged in yesterday. I didn't expect to see even MORE issues have popped up.

Too bad for Hoya. The K5 could have been a real game changer. Now, for many people, it's a dust collector in some repair facility. I'm just not ready to join that crowd.

I'll send what I have to KEH on Monday or try and post it here in the market place, and see what Hunts has on the shelf today. Maybe a 5dMkII, maybe a D700. Don't know for sure, but I do know, I am through fooling around waiting on Pentax or Hoya or whoever to do something other than produce cameras in 57 different color combination's.

**dcmsox2004** · 03-05-2011, 06:29 AM

gotta believe the stain issue is over, at least with the inventory b+h is selling these days...
what's driving a lot of us around the bend is that i've had the k100d, k200d, and now my k-x.
all without a sniff of trouble. some k-7's had some niggling issues to be sure, but not akin to the focus issues with the k-r and k-5.
we all wanna have faith in pentax imaging, trust them to provide their loyal customer base with the latest and greatest they can offer, albeit without the problems set forth among the masses like a biblical plague.... as it has affected pentaxians on a global basis.....
yes, they have done an extremely poor job in beta testing and quality control, and also ask pentax usa what's up, and the response,
like sergeant schultz from hogan's heroes... they know nothing..................
...talk about being left out of the loop......
what agwoodard said above, the k5 coulda be a real game changer.. or, it coulda been a contender, full of promise, beset by poor management, engineering and prodcution...
do i want one, hell yes!!! just not now.............. and this is the mindset of many now, which will hurt pentax's bottom line... but one wonders, do they care?

Samsungian · 03-05-2011, 06:38 AM

At #24 in Top 100, Pentax is delivering K-5 to new buyers in USA.

Amazon.com Bestsellers: The most popular items in Digital SLR Cameras

Maybe Pentax USA is more concerned with new buyers getting their cameras today as opposed to replacing defective K-5 for owners who cannot get a refund now ?

Originally posted by MRRiley

Like many folks I returned my K-5 to Pentax (thru my dealer) and have been waiting over a month. This was the reply to my latest "when is my camera going to come back?" question.

6300+ bad K-5s... and this would just be in the U.S. alone.

Pentax... you really need to step up here and make this right. I fear this could wipe out all of the great gains you have made over the past couple of year and I believe could seriously endanger your future. You don't want that... and we who have been loyal Pentax shooters, many for several decades, don't want it either.

To paraphrase an old song...

Please don't take my Pentax away!!!

Mike

**dadipentak** · 03-05-2011, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by dcmsox2004

will hurt pentax's bottom line... but one wonders, do they care?

I don't wonder whether they care about the bottom line (and I think the unprecedented apology is evidence of that.) I just think they're having difficulty responding to the demand for sensor replacement--it wasn't something they had planned for.

MRRiley · 03-05-2011, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Samsungian

Maybe Pentax USA is more concerned with new buyers getting their cameras today as opposed to replacing defective K-5 for owners who cannot get a refund now ?

Yes Samsungian... that could well be part of the equation.... they already have my and a lot of other people's money. What're we gonna do other than wait? If that is the case though it is a poor poor way to keep us as future customers. They keep up this way, even diehard Pentaxians like myself and AGWoodard (and many others) may decide that Pentax's feature/price ratio is no longer enough to keep us from buying Nikon or Canon.

I for one, do not want that to happen. I hope with all my hear that Pentax overcomes these problems and regains their place as a leader in the camera world. I for one will support them thru most anything... as long as they are honest with me when something goes wrong.

Originally posted by dadipentak

I don't wonder whether they care about the bottom line (and I think the unprecedented apology is evidence of that.) I just think they're having difficulty responding to the demand for sensor replacement--it wasn't something they had planned for.

The apology was, as you say, unprecedented Dave... And it's what led me to return my camera when I did. However the following prevarication and lack of forthrightness or indeed any kind of information regarding what was being done to get unflawed cameras back to owners has just gone back to their general poor business practices.

Mike

jolepp · 03-05-2011, 06:49 AM

The fixes/replacement taking rather long as such would seem to indicate that the problem is not about just about an isolated stained unit here and there but this is creating a strain on the service staff (=backlog) and maybe even biting in the volume of production.

philippe · 03-05-2011, 07:05 AM

I think it's very strange: all these K5s having troubles with their SONY sensor. The very same sensor used by big brother NIKON, perhaps Sony's largest sensor client and a serious competitor/rival on the DSRL market.
BTW, does Nikon has the same stain issue?
This affair has a strange smell...

Tom S. · 03-05-2011, 08:29 AM

Proper prospective, please!

Pentax made this body for what, 4 months before the problem was discovered? For them to replace that production plus provide bodies to their retailers over the course of half that time is impossible, especially given the unknown of how many cameras were actually affected. People unfamiliar with production methods fail to realize that factories can't magically pull more units out of their butts. Working overtime costs money and eventually adds cost to the product. Adding another shift of workers isn't economically feasible either.

Pentax US (and other countries other than Canada) are doing the right thing by outright replacing the defective units, IMHO. There were/are two options for them: fix or replace. Neither one is faster than the other, since either are controlled by sensor availability (which is not under Pentax's control I might add), and the 'fixed' option leaves users with a camera whose integrity is only as good as the tech doing the repairing.

Yeah, I know it's frustrating since I too went through the replacement process. And I know people have a right to get what they paid for, but you can't get blood out of a turnip, and complaining about it won't help or change a thing.

war eagle · 03-05-2011, 08:42 AM

I am one of those faithful Pentax people with cold feet. I want desperately to upgrade to a K5 but am not willing to dive into the buy now and risk the stain/replace/repair issue. I contacted b&h customer service and they did not give me any assurances that their cameras were stain free and there was no way for them to check the camera before they shipped it.

Needless to say, my Nikon and Canon friends are doing their best to convince me to join their ranks. I'm doing my best to hold the line until I feel a bit more confident that stock being shipped is stain free. Question is - how will I know that? I live in the middle of nowhere and rely on internet shopping.

Parallax · 03-05-2011, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by deadwolfbones

I'm not sure how they could step up any more... I'm sure they have the factories running full blast to meet demand.

That's my impression as well. As magic wands have not yet been perfected, they seem to be doing everything they possible. It is also possible that as the sensors are made by Sony, the delay is completely out of Pentax's control.

AGWoodard · 03-05-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

and complaining about it won't help or change a thing.

You are absolutely correct.

Neither will never buying anything ever manufactured by Hoya again, at least not knowingly, but I can assure you, I wont.

They are a despicable corporation that bought out a fine company and ran it into the ground.

Hoya will never get a single red cent from me again if I can help it.

1500 for the camera, and another grand for the 15 and 21 limited lens I was going to buy to replace the sigma 10-20 with. That money will probably go towards a 5dMkII today. What I get for my Pentax gear will go towards a lens or two. What a shame, because I have no doubt the 15 and 21 are better than anything Cannon ever made. Sure I could use them on my K200 and K20, but those cameras are 2 generations old now, and I just don't see a reliable upgrade path with anything from Hoya. The key word there being "reliable". Didn't happen with the SDM lens, the KX, K7 and now the K5.

Photography for me is a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, relieve stress, lower my blood pressure.

Having my new $1500 camera sitting in a repair facility doesn't meet those goals.

And again, I agree 100% with you that complaining about it wont help. On the other hand, I'm not ready to just sit on my hands and suck it up like a good fanboy either.

aleonx3 · 03-05-2011, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by AGWoodard

They are a despicable corporation that bought out a fine company and ran it into the ground.

Seriously, wonder what would happen if Pentax was left standing on its own before the takeover. We would likely have the k30D with the old ergonomic body and DA lenses only with more offering of the Samsung sensors - would that be better?

Originally posted by AGWoodard

Hoya will never get a single red cent from me again if I can help it.

Obviously the choice is yours. There are many fine selections from another camp - enjoy...

03-05-2011, 06:04 AM	#18
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275 Original Poster	Like Dave and many others I do have my K20D, etc... but it stinks to pay $1500 for a product and then have to go without it for a couple of months because of a manufacturing error and then a quality control failure. bobmaxja & jaybee... I trust my store (local brick and mortar) and I trust their staff. The person who gave them the number is their Pentax Rep, thus it is an official statement from Pentax, not hearsay. Also doubtful that the number was 63-100(s). 1. that would be a strange number for someone to lie with and 2. that is an insignificant number that would not lead to extended delays in delivering new cameras to the retail store or their customers. sterretje... As I said about I bought locally as well. They actually offered an exchange when I took the camera in, but I tested all 3 of the K-5s they had in stock and they were all stained so no joy there. DWB... when I say they need to "step up" is that they need to be more forthcoming about what they are doing about the issue. We've heard several stories about how they are handling the returns. "They are cleaning the sensors." They are replacing the sensors." "They are replacing the entire camera." Which is it??? They should make an official announcement on the website and be frank and honest about how long it will take before you have a K-5 back in your hands. The point is. when a company experiences a problem like this which is going to cost them a ton of money, while they are better off in the short run, evading or trying to hide the issue, it ends up costing them far more in the long run. Far better to admit the problem up front and pledge to do everything possible to make things right. This will increase customer trust and down-the-road loyalty both of which increase down-the-road profits. Last edited by MRRiley; 03-05-2011 at 06:30 AM.

03-05-2011, 06:29 AM	#20
dcmsox2004 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: rhode island Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,522	gotta believe the stain issue is over, at least with the inventory b+h is selling these days... what's driving a lot of us around the bend is that i've had the k100d, k200d, and now my k-x. all without a sniff of trouble. some k-7's had some niggling issues to be sure, but not akin to the focus issues with the k-r and k-5. we all wanna have faith in pentax imaging, trust them to provide their loyal customer base with the latest and greatest they can offer, albeit without the problems set forth among the masses like a biblical plague.... as it has affected pentaxians on a global basis..... yes, they have done an extremely poor job in beta testing and quality control, and also ask pentax usa what's up, and the response, like sergeant schultz from hogan's heroes... they know nothing.................. ...talk about being left out of the loop...... what agwoodard said above, the k5 coulda be a real game changer.. or, it coulda been a contender, full of promise, beset by poor management, engineering and prodcution... do i want one, hell yes!!! just not now.............. and this is the mindset of many now, which will hurt pentax's bottom line... but one wonders, do they care? Last edited by dcmsox2004; 03-05-2011 at 06:30 AM. Reason: edit

03-05-2011, 06:38 AM	#21
Samsungian Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado USA Posts: 1,337	At #24 in Top 100, Pentax is delivering K-5 to new buyers At #24 in Top 100, Pentax is delivering K-5 to new buyers in USA. Amazon.com Bestsellers: The most popular items in Digital SLR Cameras Maybe Pentax USA is more concerned with new buyers getting their cameras today as opposed to replacing defective K-5 for owners who cannot get a refund now ? Originally posted by MRRiley Like many folks I returned my K-5 to Pentax (thru my dealer) and have been waiting over a month. This was the reply to my latest "when is my camera going to come back?" question. 6300+ bad K-5s... and this would just be in the U.S. alone. Pentax... you really need to step up here and make this right. I fear this could wipe out all of the great gains you have made over the past couple of year and I believe could seriously endanger your future. You don't want that... and we who have been loyal Pentax shooters, many for several decades, don't want it either. To paraphrase an old song... Please don't take my Pentax away!!! Mike

03-05-2011, 06:47 AM	#23
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275 Original Poster	Originally posted by Samsungian Maybe Pentax USA is more concerned with new buyers getting their cameras today as opposed to replacing defective K-5 for owners who cannot get a refund now ? Yes Samsungian... that could well be part of the equation.... they already have my and a lot of other people's money. What're we gonna do other than wait? If that is the case though it is a poor poor way to keep us as future customers. They keep up this way, even diehard Pentaxians like myself and AGWoodard (and many others) may decide that Pentax's feature/price ratio is no longer enough to keep us from buying Nikon or Canon. I for one, do not want that to happen. I hope with all my hear that Pentax overcomes these problems and regains their place as a leader in the camera world. I for one will support them thru most anything... as long as they are honest with me when something goes wrong. Originally posted by dadipentak I don't wonder whether they care about the bottom line (and I think the unprecedented apology is evidence of that.) I just think they're having difficulty responding to the demand for sensor replacement--it wasn't something they had planned for. The apology was, as you say, unprecedented Dave... And it's what led me to return my camera when I did. However the following prevarication and lack of forthrightness or indeed any kind of information regarding what was being done to get unflawed cameras back to owners has just gone back to their general poor business practices. Mike Last edited by MRRiley; 03-05-2011 at 06:53 AM.

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03-05-2011, 05:22 AM	#16
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well I think a great chunck of the camera's produced from september to mid-december is to be replaced. So, no surprise that this is taking more time then anyone would want.

03-05-2011, 05:46 AM	#17
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by Purusam Are you kidding ? Im not waiting 3 month for something i already payed for. Ive been waiting for something like 50 days now Grrrrrr I think the problem is huge, and they are already out of stock in pentax belgium whi is delevering to all europe ? or just the nordic countries like norway sweden and soumi finland and denmark No, not kidding Reported the problem beginning of december; confirmed by the local Pentax repair centre mid december. There was one other K5 in stock and it was send to my dealer for swap; they checked it and it was also affected Got mine back with the message to use it as much as possible till replacement arrives. Which I basically do. And to make things worse for me: we get our stock from Europe. I will be highly upset if you get your replacement before me

03-05-2011, 06:06 AM	#19
AGWoodard Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Hampshire/Vermont Posts: 118	I was set to order a K5 the week the stain problem really broke, and I have held off. Not even been hanging around here to see what is happening, Stopped in yesterday and this whole forum is full of people with cameras in the repair facility, focus issues, stains showing up after some time. It's a mess. The FanBoys can tell me how great a camera the K5 is, yada yada yada all day long, but the facts don't change a thing. Hoya killed Pentax. I hope they are proud. It's over. Some 30 plus years of shooting Pentax and now it's finally over. I really expected to see that the issues were worked out with the K5 when I logged in yesterday. I didn't expect to see even MORE issues have popped up. Too bad for Hoya. The K5 could have been a real game changer. Now, for many people, it's a dust collector in some repair facility. I'm just not ready to join that crowd. I'll send what I have to KEH on Monday or try and post it here in the market place, and see what Hunts has on the shelf today. Maybe a 5dMkII, maybe a D700. Don't know for sure, but I do know, I am through fooling around waiting on Pentax or Hoya or whoever to do something other than produce cameras in 57 different color combination's.

03-05-2011, 06:43 AM	#22
dadipentak Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,590	Originally posted by dcmsox2004 will hurt pentax's bottom line... but one wonders, do they care? I don't wonder whether they care about the bottom line (and I think the unprecedented apology is evidence of that.) I just think they're having difficulty responding to the demand for sensor replacement--it wasn't something they had planned for.

03-05-2011, 06:49 AM	#24
jolepp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Finland Photos: Albums Posts: 3,196	The fixes/replacement taking rather long as such would seem to indicate that the problem is not about just about an isolated stained unit here and there but this is creating a strain on the service staff (=backlog) and maybe even biting in the volume of production.

03-05-2011, 07:05 AM	#25
philippe Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Flanders Fields Posts: 463	I think it's very strange: all these K5s having troubles with their SONY sensor. The very same sensor used by big brother NIKON, perhaps Sony's largest sensor client and a serious competitor/rival on the DSRL market. BTW, does Nikon has the same stain issue? This affair has a strange smell...

03-05-2011, 08:29 AM	#26
Tom S. Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: S.E. Michigan Photos: Albums Posts: 4,317	Proper prospective, please! Pentax made this body for what, 4 months before the problem was discovered? For them to replace that production plus provide bodies to their retailers over the course of half that time is impossible, especially given the unknown of how many cameras were actually affected. People unfamiliar with production methods fail to realize that factories can't magically pull more units out of their butts. Working overtime costs money and eventually adds cost to the product. Adding another shift of workers isn't economically feasible either. Pentax US (and other countries other than Canada) are doing the right thing by outright replacing the defective units, IMHO. There were/are two options for them: fix or replace. Neither one is faster than the other, since either are controlled by sensor availability (which is not under Pentax's control I might add), and the 'fixed' option leaves users with a camera whose integrity is only as good as the tech doing the repairing. Yeah, I know it's frustrating since I too went through the replacement process. And I know people have a right to get what they paid for, but you can't get blood out of a turnip, and complaining about it won't help or change a thing.

03-05-2011, 08:42 AM	#27
war eagle New Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 17	I am one of those faithful Pentax people with cold feet. I want desperately to upgrade to a K5 but am not willing to dive into the buy now and risk the stain/replace/repair issue. I contacted b&h customer service and they did not give me any assurances that their cameras were stain free and there was no way for them to check the camera before they shipped it. Needless to say, my Nikon and Canon friends are doing their best to convince me to join their ranks. I'm doing my best to hold the line until I feel a bit more confident that stock being shipped is stain free. Question is - how will I know that? I live in the middle of nowhere and rely on internet shopping.

03-05-2011, 08:53 AM	#28
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by deadwolfbones I'm not sure how they could step up any more... I'm sure they have the factories running full blast to meet demand. That's my impression as well. As magic wands have not yet been perfected, they seem to be doing everything they possible. It is also possible that as the sensors are made by Sony, the delay is completely out of Pentax's control.

03-05-2011, 09:20 AM	#29
AGWoodard Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Hampshire/Vermont Posts: 118	Quote: and complaining about it won't help or change a thing. You are absolutely correct. Neither will never buying anything ever manufactured by Hoya again, at least not knowingly, but I can assure you, I wont. They are a despicable corporation that bought out a fine company and ran it into the ground. Hoya will never get a single red cent from me again if I can help it. 1500 for the camera, and another grand for the 15 and 21 limited lens I was going to buy to replace the sigma 10-20 with. That money will probably go towards a 5dMkII today. What I get for my Pentax gear will go towards a lens or two. What a shame, because I have no doubt the 15 and 21 are better than anything Cannon ever made. Sure I could use them on my K200 and K20, but those cameras are 2 generations old now, and I just don't see a reliable upgrade path with anything from Hoya. The key word there being "reliable". Didn't happen with the SDM lens, the KX, K7 and now the K5. Photography for me is a hobby, it's supposed to be fun, relieve stress, lower my blood pressure. Having my new $1500 camera sitting in a repair facility doesn't meet those goals. And again, I agree 100% with you that complaining about it wont help. On the other hand, I'm not ready to just sit on my hands and suck it up like a good fanboy either.

03-05-2011, 09:33 AM	#30
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by AGWoodard They are a despicable corporation that bought out a fine company and ran it into the ground. Seriously, wonder what would happen if Pentax was left standing on its own before the takeover. We would likely have the k30D with the old ergonomic body and DA lenses only with more offering of the Samsung sensors - would that be better? Originally posted by AGWoodard Hoya will never get a single red cent from me again if I can help it. Obviously the choice is yours. There are many fine selections from another camp - enjoy...