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03-10-2011, 08:46 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
As I've said before, I'm just waitng for the price to fall to where I could possibly afford it

For the naysayers, I have two points.

1. Dynamic Range.. you can't touch it, your photography will suffer if you don't have it. I could put up 50 shots taken with my K20D that would be rescued by an extra 2 Ev of dynamic range.

2. 14 bit resolution.

Face it, as a recorder of images, this camera is one of the top 5. It has technical issues. Every camera ever made has technical issues. I want a camera that will track my retina in the viewfinder and focus on the part of the image my eye is looking at in real time. If my eye settles on a spot for a moment, I want the camera to snap a picture. If it stay on that spot I want it to go into burst mode. I want the camera to come to life the instant my eye approaches the viewfinder and shut down when I'm not looking through the lens.

Am I really going to come on a forum somewhere and trash every camera based on what I think it should do? Or am I going to do what every mature person does, learn to work within the limitations of the system, and make it work for you.

The point I'm making here is, my expectations of what I want have nothing to do with whether or not a camera is a failure. The only issue is can I, with my abilities coax this camera into taking images I enjoy. I love my K20D, so why would I think less than or a K-5? I was shooting icicles the other night, I gave up on the auto-focus, (low light, almost dark) and focussed manually). For people like me who before my *ist never went to autofocus, these cameras are a charm. So every now and then I have to focus manually.. tough nuggies. It's not like I didn't do it for 35 years. IMHO no auto focus doesn't make a camera a failure, forget about a camera that doesn't focus properly in a few ridiculously uncommon situations.

People have to get perspective. My only issue with the K-5 is right now, I can't afford one. Lenses are more important. But I bet I'll have one at the end of their run. You can't let other people's nit picking stop you from making decisions that are good for you. Pentax's job is not to please everyone. My relationship with them is that they have to please me. They do a good job of that.

You end up reading all the complaints and you think "am I like this guy?". If you are, listen to his complaints. If you're like me, and a challenge is just a work around waiting to be born, you evaluate the issues and decide whether you can live with them. In this case, for me, it's all about the image quality. 2 more Evs DR, 14 bit depth, More pixels per image.
+1 couldn't have said it better myself

NaCl( and even better?...I didn't have to type any of it!)H2O

03-10-2011, 09:00 AM   #62
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I am sorry, but no matter how I see it, I just cannot see this as success. Success??? Are you guys sure?? I don't even think that they are successful in damage control. They may have squeaked through it. They just might have gotten away with a big blunder.

I understand that every new product has its, you know, aspects that were overlooked, more or less. I can tell you that being a japanese, this is not the type of QC that we hold ourselves to. To me this is flat out embarrassing.

Even 645D and D FA 645 55 had some nuisances. Boy they nipped those at the bud. Can you imagine if that got out of hand?
03-10-2011, 09:22 AM   #63
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They could have certainly done a lot better. However, the results I have received so far from the K-5 are good and I can't complain. I personally never had any stains and have not pushed the camera enough to notice issues in auto-focus (Is the K-7 any better at accuracy? Probably not...).
03-10-2011, 09:53 AM   #64
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Well... maybe a little patience might simply do the trick in some cases:
The firmware 1.03 is out ... and it seems that the remaining "failure" FF can be crossed out.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/136233-k-5-firmware-v1-0...apan-site.html

(the update is out on the german page as well)

03-10-2011, 10:05 AM   #65
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Mine is on the way....I will let you know if it is a failure, you can count on it, but I am not anticipating that at all.
Pentax screwed up, but I bet they don't next time. Everyone here that contributed to them releasing the new firmware should be proud, you did everyone a huge service, whether they liked it or not. A lesson learned will benefit us all in the next models.
Best Regards!

Last edited by Rupert; 03-10-2011 at 10:17 AM.
03-10-2011, 10:20 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I am sorry, but no matter how I see it, I just cannot see this as success. Success??? Are you guys sure??
Heh... by way of response I give you what is going on in the Nikon forums... first post here is relatively funny under the circumstances.

[D7000] - Problems (Bad Pixels) Nikon Rumors Forum

At the point that a Nikon thread is for the "inevitable I'm going to Pentax" posts, I think that perhaps you have your answer as well as a better sense of perspective on this stuff.

Edit: I am not pulling the trigger just yet, but it is a matter of price point. When NOT if.

Kind regards,

woof (blah blah, woof) woof!

D7000 problems? - Photo.net Nikon Forum
D7000 sensor problem ??? - FM Forums
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03-10-2011, 10:20 AM - 1 Like   #67
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I've been looking a lot on the web for opinions and testimonials about this camera. There are dozens of great reviews for it out there. The epicentre of negativity appears to be here.
03-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
You think do you ? I've see you bashing the K5 almost every opportunity you get, do you have one ? I actually think you are a Canon / Nikon user aren't you (if I remember correctly - maybe I don't) it seems not so you've not actually tried it out have you.

Virtually every test out there, whether from a well known magazine or on a private blog, gives it at least 4 stars (and usually higher) and most rate it higher than not only it's immediate peers (60D & D7k) but also more expensive cameras. Courtesy of DXo, Photozone etc. etc.

It is a massive improvement on the K7 (I have one and still use it) if you appreciate and need the advances made by the K5. The fact that the only 3 issues that affected this camera have either been solved or are solvable by firmware and that Pentax have said they are working on, says it all really. I don't see any reason at all for anyone not to consider this camera if it is on their radar. It is quite superb.
I talk a lot about SDM, but almost never the K-5. From marketing pov, it's a failure. It's plagued with sensor stain and FF. No matter what Pentax have done, the damage is there and some consumers moved on especially when DSLRs have very short cycle. The new fw was just released but is too early to tell whether it solved the problem completely. Like many previous Pentax bodies, so much hypes yet so little substances. But what's your problem anyway? Can't stand people with different pov? Boy.


Last edited by wlachan; 03-10-2011 at 10:47 AM.
03-10-2011, 10:43 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by elho_cid Quote
He has a K-m and an 40D shown in his signature. I understand that comparing these two cameras anyone would conclude the Canon is superior. But how about comparing K-7 to 1000D? And while at it, compare the 550D with K-r. Or 60D with K-5. Pentax improved a lot since K10D but it is difficult to percieve improvement in x0D line of EOSes.
As another dual system user I believe I'm OK to comment. Yet I hope Canon will pick up soon and introduce a camera that can compete with K-5.
Please get a hold of yourself and refrain from keep accusing me or others with your own imagination newcomer. We are here to talk about the K-5 and K-5 only. Canon AF is way ahead of Pentax, but I have never concluded Canon was superior in general. I have been using Pentax for more than 2 decades and have owned Pentax brand products more than anything else, including Canon. In fact, I have only a small combo of Canon just to fill the shortcoming of Pentax in recent years. The way I see it, Pentax have been toying with features and sensors between models but keep ignoring their known shortcomings which are what really drag Pentax down the last 2 decades.
03-10-2011, 10:45 AM   #70
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fwiw... when asking if anything can be defined as a failure....
Definition of FAILURE
1
a : omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action <failure to pay the rent on time> b (1) : a state of inability to perform a normal function <kidney failure> — compare heart failure (2) : an abrupt cessation of normal functioning <a power failure> c : a fracturing or giving way under stress <structural failure>
2
a : lack of success b : a failing in business : bankruptcy
3
a : a falling short : deficiency <a crop failure> b : deterioration, decay

by literal definition.... everything in life fails at some point in time.... because there is no absolute or perfect entity that exists on our small celestial orb... (yes, absolute zero has been noted) .... i don't expect perfection, so therefore never disappointed.... and that's why i am ordering a k-5...(finally decided to add to the national debt)....
but there are varying degrees of failure, and interpreted differently by all..... only natural and logical.... looking forward to enjoying the newest pentax has to offer.... and knowing that the forum will be there if i need help.... and the forum has never failed me....
03-10-2011, 12:57 PM   #71
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Mine arrived from BH this afternoon. I've been shooting with it and the 7D side by side for a few hours and I have to say this K5 is a better camera in every way aside from AF.

The sensor in this thing is amazing.

-Better resolution (more detail)
-Better ISO
-MUCH better shadow detail retention (DR)
-Much less blown highlights (snow here in maine, this thing can get snow detail and shadow detail, the 7D struggles with that)
-It's weather sealed with DA* lenses for half the price of similar L glass.


AF-C is improved over K7 and AF is more decisive. It "feel" very similar in performance to the 7D for locking minus the SDM motor being significantly slower than ring USM. I am very happy with it and don't feel like it's a massive limitation from the 7D.

Pentax also stuffs SO much more into the camera for options that I don't have with Canon at this price range:

-I can set ISO noise reduction per step
-I can set program lines
-I have green button
-Mirror lock up is much easier to deal with.
-remote is cheaper and has IR ports front AND back
-just more in the menus to customize.


Failure absolutely not. Right now this is the best APS-C camera out there. Stains are gone and FF is gone.

I can't autorotate though so better sell all my pentax gear.
03-10-2011, 01:54 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
I talk a lot about SDM, but almost never the K-5. From marketing pov, it's a failure. It's plagued with sensor stain and FF. No matter what Pentax have done, the damage is there and some consumers moved on especially when DSLRs have very short cycle. The new fw was just released but is too early to tell whether it solved the problem completely. Like many previous Pentax bodies, so much hypes yet so little substances. But what's your problem anyway? Can't stand people with different pov? Boy.
Nothing to do with POV if you actually had a basis for your argument. As for consumers moving on ... there seems to be a far greater number of people moving in the direction of Pentax from Nikon / Canon because of the quality of the camera or because of dissatisfaction with the 60D or D7k than vice versa.

It's not too early to say - lots of people on here have already installed 1.03 (as have I) and no-one has a bad word to say about it so far .... in fact quite the opposite. Really, what issues are you going to denigrate the camera with now since all of the out-standing ones have been solved. BTW how are Nikon getting on with their D7K issues ?

My 'problem' is people bashing products that they have never even tried let alone owned. Everything you have posted on the K5 is hearsay, concocted or at best unsubstantiated drivel dressed up as opinion - Why don't you ever say anything about the many magazine write-ups or testing sites that shower praise on the K5 ? Are they wrong too ?

As far as the 'damage is done' - if you bothered to check then you'd see the K5 is flying off the shelves as fast as Pentax can produce them. Guess you need to shout your negativity louder, those people didn't hear you.

If the K5 was even close to being as much of a disaster that you'd have people believe then I'd be right behind you ... but it's not even in that ballpark. It's quite frankly just a superb camera and a major step up from the K7.
03-10-2011, 02:21 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nass Quote
I've been looking a lot on the web for opinions and testimonials about this camera. There are dozens of great reviews for it out there. The epicentre of negativity appears to be here.
This, friend, is a sad reality to hear.
No support around for Pentax when the chips are down, eh?
03-10-2011, 03:29 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
C'mon now. This is both exaggerated and inaccurate.
Companies that have been in business for as long as Pentax don't just ignore QC issues they know exist from their user base.

There will always be disgruntled users as yourself no matter what the product, no matter what the brand. So please do yourself a favour and buy the product you find never has any of the issues you state and don't bother with the grandiose naysaying on a forum representing products you will never purchase again.
It is neither exaggerated nor inaccurate and this disaster is far worse than any I have ever heard of with any other brand in the past 40 years.

BTW, don't bother telling me what I can or can't say or think. That dog don't hunt! Of course, you can ban me from the forum because I passed the fanboy test.

Cheers.
03-10-2011, 04:08 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
Please get a hold of yourself and refrain from keep accusing me or others with your own imagination newcomer. We are here to talk about the K-5 and K-5 only. Canon AF is way ahead of Pentax, but I have never concluded Canon was superior in general. I have been using Pentax for more than 2 decades and have owned Pentax brand products more than anything else, including Canon. In fact, I have only a small combo of Canon just to fill the shortcoming of Pentax in recent years. The way I see it, Pentax have been toying with features and sensors between models but keep ignoring their known shortcomings which are what really drag Pentax down the last 2 decades.
You have talked about AF speed with Canon 40D, which I agree, however, my observation with those who own those 5D and 7D are all using auto focus point select. Yes, they lock focus fast, but most of the time, they are incorrectly focused on point of interest and sometimes, with many focus points taken, nothing is really 'in-focus'. I am not sure in case, fast is more important than accuracy. I always 'user select' focus and getting very good at that. And the only time, I use 'auto-select' is when I ask someone to take a shot for me. Would like to hear what your view on this.
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