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03-12-2011, 09:09 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
We all have our ways of using the camera - why is it necessary to ridicule others?
I don't think that anyone is trying to ridicule you, just pointing out that there may be "better" ways to achieve your desired end result, and that the technique you are using may not be the best one. Personaly I would think that shooting at 7fps could be a rather "hit or miss" way to get a good shot!

03-12-2011, 09:37 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
I don't think that anyone is trying to ridicule you, just pointing out that there may be "better" ways to achieve your desired end result, and that the technique you are using may not be the best one. Personaly I would think that shooting at 7fps could be a rather "hit or miss" way to get a good shot!
Given that you don't know what the end result is (or even what I desire), how would you know whether the technique is the best one or not?

Remember, just because the camera is in continuous mode, doesn't mean that I'm taking 20 versions of every shot.

As I've mentioned before, it is perfectly possible just to take one shot even if the camera is in continuous mode.

Surely it's my prerogative to decide for each scene, whether I want to take 1 or 20? Or any number in between?

What does that have to do my my "technique"?
03-12-2011, 09:53 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Can I suggest that you shouldn't try and exaggerate a situation to try and ridicule me?

I never said I used it "all the time" and I never said I miss shots "a lot." All my World Pentax Day photos are single shots using manual focus lenses, and for the Pentax workshop last week probably only a dozen or so photos out more than 500 were multiple shots - even though the camera was in 7fps for a good proportion of the entire shoot.

We all have our ways of using the camera - why is it necessary to ridicule others?
.



I'm not tying to ridicule you, just trying to point out that if you are missing shots enough using your method in everyday shooting that you'd consider backing out of a significant firmware upgrade in order to gain 10% faster buffer write throughput, then maybe it would be a good time to at least reconsider your method.

Certain types of photojournalists and sports shooters and pros doing similar things absolutely should take advantage of the fastest frame rate available, almost in every professional situation they find themselves in. For most everyone else, even other pros with different specialties, thinking a bit and trying to anticipate a movement often brings better results.

I'd even go so far as to say that depending on a high frame rate too often could stunt your growth as a photographer; it's not easy to learn to see/anticipate, and if you never make yourself do it, you'll never learn. I think it can actually keep you from getting better.

I also think that there are times when we get caught up in the action, and a spray & pray approach seems like the only possibility... but in reality things are not moving quite as fast as they seem, and there's time to watch/think/anticipate. The best shots often result from those moments, where thinking happened at the time of capture. After a while this 'thinking' becomes very quick and almost morphs into something closer to instinct - and it doesn't slow you down at all. I suspect the best photographers have that aspect of their shooting highly developed.

Note that I'm not talking about capturing super-fast action like motorcycle racing, or a runner approaching, or a ball being hit/caught (necessarily,) or anything that requires as much luck to capture as skill - in those cases, good tracking and frame rate from the camera trump all else.


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03-12-2011, 10:01 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.



I'm not tying to ridicule you, just trying to point out that if you are missing shots enough using your method in everyday shooting that you'd consider backing out of a significant firmware upgrade in order to gain 10% faster buffer write throughput, then maybe it would be a good time to at least reconsider your method.

Certain types of photojournalists and sports shooters and pros doing similar things absolutely should take advantage of the fastest frame rate available, almost in every professional situation they find themselves in. For most everyone else, even other pros with different specialties, thinking a bit and trying to anticipate a movement often brings better results.

I'd even go so far as to say that depending on a high frame rate too often could stunt your growth as a photographer; it's not easy to learn to see/anticipate, and if you never make yourself do it, you'll never learn. I think it can actually keep you from getting better.

I also think that there are times when we get caught up in the action, and a spray & pray approach seems like the only possibility... but in reality things are not moving quite as fast as they seem, and there's time to watch/think/anticipate. The best shots often result from those moments, where thinking happened at the time of capture. After a while this 'thinking' becomes very quick and almost morphs into something closer to instinct - and it doesn't slow you down at all. I suspect the best photographers have that aspect of their shooting highly developed.

Note that I'm not talking about capturing super-fast action like motorcycle racing, or a runner approaching, or a ball being hit/caught (necessarily,) or anything that requires as much luck to capture as skill - in those cases, good tracking and frame rate from the camera trump all else.


.

Well said Jay... I for one have learnt a lot just looking at your photos and other advice you give so kindly...and from a fine photographer that you are...may I say.

cheers

Neil

03-12-2011, 10:08 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.
I'm not tying to ridicule you, just trying to point out that if you are missing shots enough using your method in everyday shooting that you'd consider backing out of a significant firmware upgrade in order to gain 10% faster buffer write throughput, then maybe it would be a good time to at least reconsider your method.
Again, why are you trying to exaggerate the situation? When did I say I was "missing shots" in "everyday shooting"?

Look, I noticed after upgrading to 1.03 that the camera was a bit slower clearing the buffer. I was only testing because I had recently bought an Extreme Pro card, and was a bit disappointed it was no faster than the Extreme on the K-5. I only did some testing after the firmware upgrade because I was hoping there would be a speed improvement.

Given I actually discovered a slight showdown, I then posted on the forum asking if it was possible to downgrade the firmware.

Remember, I was only asking if it was possible, not that I would actually downgrade. I even said later on I probably won't downgrade even if it was possible, but it was nice to know the answer.

Suddenly there were all these posts about "why does it matter to me?" so I mention that there are many situations where I would consider shooting multiple shots and therefore it does matter to me.

I then mentioned that the significance would be the POSSIBILITY of missing shots whilst waiting for the buffer to clear. And that "on occasion" I have indeed missed shots.

Why has this suddenly become a discussion about me using it "all the time" and "missing shots constantly" and therefore my technique needs improving and I should practice more on composition?

You just built up this strawman of a person/situation that doesn't exist and proceeded to ridicule that strawman.
03-12-2011, 10:14 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Again, why are you trying to exaggerate the situation? When did I say I was "missing shots" in "everyday shooting"?

Look, I noticed after upgrading to 1.03 that the camera was a bit slower clearing the buffer. I was only testing because I had recently bought an Extreme Pro card, and was a bit disappointed it was no faster than the Extreme on the K-5. I only did some testing after the firmware upgrade because I was hoping there would be a speed improvement.

Given I actually discovered a slight showdown, I then posted on the forum asking if it was possible to downgrade the firmware.

Remember, I was only asking if it was possible, not that I would actually downgrade. I even said later on I probably won't downgrade even if it was possible, but it was nice to know the answer.

Suddenly there were all these posts about "why does it matter to me?" so I mention that there are many situations where I would consider shooting multiple shots and therefore it does matter to me.

I then mentioned that the significance would be the POSSIBILITY of missing shots whilst waiting for the buffer to clear. And that "on occasion" I have indeed missed shots.

Why has this suddenly become a discussion about me using it "all the time" and "missing shots constantly" and therefore my technique needs improving and I should practice more on composition?

You just built up this strawman of a person/situation that doesn't exist and proceeded to ridicule that strawman.
.

I think several of us may have found it bizarre to want to back out of one of the most significant and highly-anticipated firmware upgrades Pentax has ever put out because of this reason you gave. I just thought there was an opportunity to help you with something implied in the subtext of the thread, here... Sorry to offend. Keep shooting however you want to shoot.


.
03-12-2011, 10:26 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
.I think several of us may have found it bizarre to want to back out of one of the most significant and highly-anticipated firmware upgrades Pentax has ever put out because of this reason you gave.
Remember, I was only asking a question about POSSIBILITY. I wasn't asking for advice about whether I should be using continuous mode or not, and how to avoid missing shots.

1.03 may be a significant upgrade for many people, but remember I didn't really suffer from significant FF with 1.01, and even with 1.03 there is still a bit of FF so as far as I'm concerned the improvement is a bit of a non issue for me.

What I was anticipating in 1.03 was a potential improvement in write speed. Hence if there was a deterioration rather than an improvement, naturally downgrading is a option that I would consider, if it was possible.

I'm sure you are a great photographer with lots of experience and wanted to help out - just that I don't really need the advice because it's not really relevant for my situation.
03-12-2011, 11:26 PM   #53
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Christine,

Your writing is clear, as is your thinking.

If more here would read as carefully as you write ......

Don't let them get you down.

And for those who urge analysis and practice in lieu of spray and pray, some of us find ourselves in particular situations only once or twice in our lives. I'd rather come away with memorable images than no more the limited satisfaction that I might have learned from my mistakes - acquired a set of lessons I will never get the chance again to use.

Christine notes the ephemeral nature of life, in her case small children who do not remain small, rambunctious, and spontaneous very long.

In addition to my lovely twin granddaughters, age 30 months, I'll note the presence in my life of important older relatives. Watching the generations interact yields images that irreplaceable and irreproducible. Moments are here, entirely too briefly, and are gone. Facial expressions and body language change in a heartbeat. Capturing the perfect expression on all three of them at one instant cannot be realized by study and practice.

Next year at this time the toddlers will be a year older, morphing from one stage in life to another, one person to another - and their grandmother's spirit will have slipped further into the dulling morass of Alzheimer's disease.

So I will continue to spray and pray, grateful that I have been granted by technology that which I do not have the time and perhaps innate talent to learn on my own.

I'll still learn photo skills as I can, enjoying the challenge, the discipline, and the seemingly-endless iteration required.

Nonetheless, seven frames per second will bring me joys that will last a very long time.

Your lives are different. Handle your own moments as you will. Please leave Christine's to her. There's more to all of this than mere photographic technique.

03-13-2011, 12:02 AM   #54
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Boy talk about defensive! People are just trying to help, as they usually do on here.
03-13-2011, 02:29 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I took a few photos yesterday and today continuous mode.

Did it significantly affect my shooting? Haven't yet - but then I was quite sparing with the shutter and never filled the buffer.

I did notice a big difference between my old card (PQI Class 6) which took nearly a minute to clear a full buffer, and the Extreme - that was significant enough to affect usability - to the point where I would not use the PQI for continuous mode - missed out on too many shots.

Usually, when I over-use the continuous mode - the camera will sometimes lock up and freeze. Haven't noticed it as much on Firmware 1.03 - the camera only froze once yesterday which was rather embarassing and I missed out on a few shots, but I've had occasions in the past where the camera locked out several times.

Maybe they slowed down the writes by 10% to improve stability? If that is true, it may be a good trade off.
If your class 6 card took a minute write the 20 raw:s to the card, your problem definitely is not the firmware ver 1.3 but the card you are using.

My "slow" class 6 card wrote those in 30 sec.

Instead of tinkering with firmware downgradings, which can be hazardous to your camera, you should buy a new quicker card.

With new card this "problem" is soved and you will have actually much more shorter writing time than you ever can achieve with this downgrading nonsense.
03-13-2011, 04:00 AM   #56
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Itse päivittäisin mielummin vaikka 1.04 kun menisin taaksepäin. Mitä hyötyä on kehityksestä jos elää museossa.
03-13-2011, 06:06 AM   #57
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This thread is really getting bizzare.........I think it's time to move on folks.....nothing more to see here......
03-13-2011, 06:16 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
This thread is really getting bizzare.........I think it's time to move on folks.....nothing more to see here......

What you actually are calling "bizarre"?
03-13-2011, 07:29 AM   #59
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This whole discussion seems rather pointless. don't you think? Get a faster card or a another camera and move on!
03-13-2011, 12:21 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by ozlizard Quote
This whole discussion seems rather pointless. don't you think? Get a faster card or a another camera and move on!
Pointless it is. Agreed. But somehow it is funny discuss also about pointless issues
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