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03-15-2011, 06:51 AM   #16
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LOL

QuoteOriginally posted by jrforman Quote
OMG another Pentax user that is an acupuncturist? I thought I was the only one...

But on topic. I have a Metz 58-AF1. I never use it in direct mode but do use it a lot in bounced (usually off a side wall, hardly ever overhead because I just don't like the way it looks). I use the camera only in manual mode and usually dial in a FEC of -1. I get consistent results as long as I don't get too close to my subject and go over the minimum (not maximum) flash distance for the ISO I'm shooting. I will have some picts of my grandson's 3rd birthday here - I used flash in all except for a few shots that are obvious. MobileMe Gallery
These picts will be up for a couple months, so if you find this in more than that, don't be alarmed they aren't there.

I would also remind everyone that you still need to compensate for scenes that are primarily white or black with E.C. just like you would do a normal shot. I have been guilty of that in the past.
I'm actually a chiropractor. I have an acupuncturist in my office who volunteered the subject! Nice shots. I frequently bounce off walls instead of ceilings as well. I also fully understand the need to compensate for white or black scenes (as I shoot weddings). However, there is something definitely inconsistent and off with the way the camera handles bounce flash. I wouldn't mind if I could just dial down the EV or fEV to get good exposures, but it is too inconsistent to do so. I do like the idea of using manual. I have done it before and will likely do it again to get consistent exposures. Thanks again for the pics and insight. Take care,

Eric

03-15-2011, 06:55 AM   #17
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Got it...

QuoteOriginally posted by snofox Quote
efkelly, I think the link you need is here https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/119808-k-5-flash.html. And here is another https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5-forum/119630-my-2-days-old-k5-faulty.html

There are other threads on the issue just as long. I think it was someone from Europe who said that he talked with Pentax about the issue and was told that a firmware fix was forthcoming.

Ah, got the links. I have seen these before, but I still don't see any solid reference from Pentax in those links. Just here say. I spoke them on a couple of occasions (pentax USA) on the phone and online chat. They have always said that they are unaware of the problem because no one has let them know about it. I just want to make people aware so that maybe pentax will take notice. Thanks for the links.
03-15-2011, 09:54 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by efkelly Quote
I decided to take some shots with my K-5 and K-r so that people can see if they have the same issue. All my shots were with the camera on Manual, f5, 1/50 sec., and at ISO 100, 200, 400, and 800 with the flash on PTTL and strait up bounced. The lens used was a DA* 16-50 with the lens at 35mm and I was about 5 feet away. The scene was in the -EV as well (at least -1 stop with ISO 800 selected). Let me know what you think. Oh ya, I have the newest firmware in my camera 1.03.
Tried this with my camera, a K-5 with DA* 16-50 lens at 36mm (tried to get 35) about 5-6 feet way. FEC constant at -1.0 in all shots. Flash mounted on camera pointing straight up. Firmware 1.03. EXIF with file. The only difference was a Metz 58-AF1 with most current firmware.

As you can see, consistent exposure levels. Possibly a tad hot (I might go to -1.5 but its pretty close) but consistent.

Anything I'm missing? Is this camera variation or difference in flash? This is repeatable with consistent results.
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03-15-2011, 11:43 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jrforman Quote
Tried this with my camera, a K-5 with DA* 16-50 lens at 36mm (tried to get 35) about 5-6 feet way. FEC constant at -1.0 in all shots. Flash mounted on camera pointing straight up. Firmware 1.03. EXIF with file. The only difference was a Metz 58-AF1 with most current firmware.

As you can see, consistent exposure levels. Possibly a tad hot (I might go to -1.5 but its pretty close) but consistent.

Anything I'm missing? Is this camera variation or difference in flash? This is repeatable with consistent results.

I can get the same results with -1 to -1.5 EV, but the difference is when you need direct flash (as in like a wedding reception), you have bump up the EV to compensate which takes too much time at a wedding... Plus for a 1400 camera I shouldn't have to dial down -1.5 to get the correct exposures...

03-15-2011, 02:20 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by efkelly Quote
I can get the same results with -1 to -1.5 EV, but the difference is when you need direct flash (as in like a wedding reception), you have bump up the EV to compensate which takes too much time at a wedding... Plus for a 1400 camera I shouldn't have to dial down -1.5 to get the correct exposures...
Ah, I get it. I got a little confused because of the difference in exposure between the shots of just the K-5. I thought you were having trouble getting consistent exposures with all the same settings except ISO. I assume the ISO 100 shot you showed wasn't overexposed because the flash power was being eaten up by the higher ISO.

Yeah, this is a problem if you go back and forth. I assume you know that the ec and fec have the same impact in manual mode - doesn't get rid of the problem but sometimes I find it a little faster to adjust the ec for the flash changes rather than going into the fec.

Or perhaps you could just hire a 6 foot 5 inch assistant with a white shirt and have him stand there on one side as a big bounce source?
03-15-2011, 05:15 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by jrforman Quote
Ah, I get it. I got a little confused because of the difference in exposure between the shots of just the K-5. I thought you were having trouble getting consistent exposures with all the same settings except ISO. I assume the ISO 100 shot you showed wasn't overexposed because the flash power was being eaten up by the higher ISO.

Yeah, this is a problem if you go back and forth. I assume you know that the ec and fec have the same impact in manual mode - doesn't get rid of the problem but sometimes I find it a little faster to adjust the ec for the flash changes rather than going into the fec.

Or perhaps you could just hire a 6 foot 5 inch assistant with a white shirt and have him stand there on one side as a big bounce source?
He/she would have to be 600 pounds as well!!! The ISO 100 shot wasn't overexposed because the flash was shut off at the appropriate level. When you increase the ISO that is where the problem lies. You are correct in saying that I am having trouble getting consistent exposures with all the same settings except ISO (without using FEV or EV). In all of the examples the scene was underexposed by various amounts (with the ISO 800 shot being about 1 stop under exposed). With TTL the flash should put out the right amount of flash to correctly expose the scene (as in the examples of the K-r shots). Regardless of the ISO, the scenes should have the proper exposure (with increased ISO I believe the ambient is increased a bit). This is true as long as you are working within the flash range. That is a good point about using the EC instead of the FEC (I know they have the same effect in certain modes). However when shooting in manual EV doesn't exist. You only have shutter speed and aperture to work with letting TTL give you the proper exposure. So, you would have to use FEC within the menu or on the flash to compensate for the flash output. Thanks again
03-15-2011, 05:45 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by efkelly Quote
That is a good point about using the EC instead of the FEC (I know they have the same effect in certain modes). However when shooting in manual EV doesn't exist.
Nope. It does. In manual mode EC will adjust the flash output downward. Try it. It works differently here than in other modes. I have confirmed it with K-5 and K20D. It might have a slight different effect, but it does work.
03-15-2011, 06:00 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by jrforman Quote
Nope. It does. In manual mode EC will adjust the flash output downward. Try it. It works differently here than in other modes. I have confirmed it with K-5 and K20D. It might have a slight different effect, but it does work.
Huh. I wasn't aware of that. I will give it a try. Thanks-

03-15-2011, 06:09 PM   #24
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Yup. Just read the manual. You are correct. The EV button decreases the exposure in M mode. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out. It is easier than going into the menu or the flash-
03-15-2011, 08:52 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by efkelly Quote
Yup. Just read the manual. You are correct. The EV button decreases the exposure in M mode. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out. It is easier than going into the menu or the flash-
Its like I tell my wife, "If we just assume I'm correct, we will save a lot of time".
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