[Fontan]

Creampuff, I see that eloquence is not your forte. Sorry. Just because one owns a K-5, it does not make you an automatic authority. Having handled roughly 500 actuations and having printed over 20 or so on my Epson 3880 at us letter size and up to A3, I can tell you that differences in results are minute in my view. At low ISO, I guarantee, you will not be able to separate k-7 shots from k-5's. please knock yourself out with low light high ISO adventure. HDR and high DR will levitate your crap pictures to an acceptable level of quality. I for one like to utilize something called lighting.

Usability of k-5 from design perspective is identical to k-7. Nearly 20,000 actuations, I am sure I have some ideas regarding it's ergonomics. Please don't bring up crap like faster fps and AF. Neither of these features will make you a better photographer. Lazy photographers, yes, but not better.

It is not about having your opinion substantiated by others. I don't care if I am alone in my assessment. It is more important to me that I myself have what i consider to be a valid arguments for a set of beliefs that I came to form. In the end this is not even about cameras. You cannot even reasonably and sensibly quantify the degree of improvement other than saying crap like quantum leap. I know an used car salesman who is better with words. Credibility goes beyond ownership.

As for my 645d, you can kiss my butt. I didn't blow 10G so that I can post pictures for fanboys.. What do you get out of looking at posted images on an uncalibrated monitor anyway? Complete waste of actuations. 645d's shutter is only said to be good for 50,000. I cannot afford to waste it on a lost cause.

[Fontan]

OMG .. are you Chow Yun Fat???

Please say you are (drool)

Much better looking than dat.

[creampuff]

Creampuff, I see that eloquence is not your forte. Sorry. Just because one owns a K-5, it does not make you an automatic authority. Having handled roughly 500 actuations and having printed over 20 or so on my Epson 3880 at us letter size and up to A3, I can tell you that differences in results are minute in my view. At low ISO, I guarantee, you will not be able to separate k-7 shots from k-5's. please knock yourself out with low light high ISO adventure. HDR and high DR will levitate your crap pictures to an acceptable level of quality. I for one like to utilize something called lighting.

You may feel the difference between a shot taken with a K-7 and K-5 might be minor at low ISO but they are definitely there. My office has an Epson 3850 as a proofing printer for an Indigo press and I can definitely see a difference at A3 size output. Sure one doesn't become an automatic authority by virtue of ownership but it certainly lends more credence than not even owning one.

Usability of k-5 from design perspective is identical to k-7. Nearly 20,000 actuations, I am sure I have some ideas regarding it's ergonomics. Please don't bring up crap like faster fps and AF. Neither of these features will make you a better photographer. Lazy photographers, yes, but not better.

Usability isn't confined to ergonomics, nor fps and AF. The K-5's sensor is a game changer as it offers new approaches to image taking. But I guess you don't think so.

It is not about having your opinion substantiated by others. I don't care if I am alone in my assessment. It is more important to me that I myself have what i consider to be a valid arguments for a set of beliefs that I came to form. In the end this is not even about cameras. You cannot even reasonably and sensibly quantify the degree of improvement other than saying crap like quantum leap. I know an used car salesman who is better with words. Credibility goes beyond ownership.

I leave the measurebating to others who can quantify better. So for now I'll just have to rely on semantic crap like "quantum leap" to describe how good the K-5 is. BTW nobody is forcing you to give up your beliefs but you better be able to vigorously defend your claims which appears to go in the face of many views who testify that the K-5 does bring a lot more to the table than previous Pentax cameras.

As for my 645d, you can kiss my butt. I didn't blow 10G so that I can post pictures for fanboys.. What do you get out of looking at posted images on an uncalibrated monitor anyway? Complete waste of actuations. 645d's shutter is only said to be good for 50,000. I cannot afford to waste it on a lost cause.

Sorry but that's the biggest load of crap that I've heard.
Nobody is asking you to waste shutter actuations but surely as one of a small pool of 645D users you should have already taken some images that could be shared with other Pentax users here. What rubbish are you talking about uncalibrated monitors? Even Pentax has sample test images taken with the 645D that is freely available to anyone who wants to download them with exif intact. The only lost cause is if you might not actually have a 645D to begin with. Fact is most people would be more than thrilled to post images from their new cameras, but then again you're probably different. Cheers with your 645D.

[dcmsox2004]

perhaps fontan, aka skid roper (superb moniker), as a palm reader, has a greater metaphysical insight into the k-5 that the rest of us plebeian pentaxians don't have......
whilst the k-5 will not turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, it is an improved 'tool', and it has and will allow it's owners the ability to capture images perhaps not up to the challenge by previous models.
those k-5 detractors, who have not 'test driven' it, have opinions which in and of themselves, are hollow and without substance.... and need to be taken with a grain of salt...and humor.....
dave m.
.. can't we all just get along ????

---

Last edited by dcmsox2004; 03-24-2011 at 04:55 AM. Reason: edit

[Fontan]

You may feel the difference between a shot taken with a K-7 and K-5 might be minor at low ISO but they are definitely there. My office has an Epson 3850 as a proofing printer for an Indigo press and I can definitely see a difference at A3 size output. Sure one doesn't become an automatic authority by virtue of ownership but it certainly lends more credence than not even owning one.



Usability isn't confined to ergonomics, nor fps and AF. The K-5's sensor is a game changer as it offers new approaches to image taking. But I guess you don't think so.



I leave the measurebating to others who can quantify better. So for now I'll just have to rely on semantic crap like "quantum leap" to describe how good the K-5 is. BTW nobody is forcing you to give up your beliefs but you better be able to vigorously defend your claims which appears to go in the face of many views who testify that the K-5 does bring a lot more to the table than previous Pentax cameras.



Sorry but that's the biggest load of crap that I've heard.
Nobody is asking you to waste shutter actuations but surely as one of a small pool of 645D users you should have already taken some images that could be shared with other Pentax users here. What rubbish are you talking about uncalibrated monitors? Even Pentax has sample test images taken with the 645D that is freely available to anyone who wants to download them with exif intact. The only lost cause is if you might not actually have a 645D to begin with. Fact is most people would be more than thrilled to post images from their new cameras, but then again you're probably different. Cheers with your 645D.

I doubt you can tell the difference. Describe to me in details what differences you see in words, in sentences. What it is that you see??? What tips you off?? Should we put you to a test? Doubt you will pass. I doubt you can tell from Canon to Nikon to Pentax. Highly doubtful. At any rate, not in a game changer way. Please. You still sound like a car salesman who is not very good at it. You still didn't say anything of substance.


BTW, are you calling me a lier? i was waiting for this. Are you insinuating that I don't have a 645D and that I am lying in front of all these people??

Well, chief. Let's play.

If I can prove to you to your satisfaction that I own a 645D, will you give me your K-5?? If I cannot prove it to you, I will give you my K7 and all the lenses I have.

Let's see you put your money where your mouth is.

So, am I a lier???

Go for it.

[Fontan]

And, while I am at it, let me tell you what I am going to do with your K-5 if you are up to the challenge (again, doubt it). I will auction off your K-5 on this forum, and I will donate the entire proceeds to Japan via Red Cross.

I really hope you want to put your k-5 where your mouth is. I am waiting.

[dcmsox2004]

lier ???? definition:–noun
a person or thing that lies, as in wait or in ambush.
ironic...... or self revealing.....
hmmmmmmmmm....

[Fontan]

lier ???? definition:–noun
a person or thing that lies, as in wait or in ambush.
ironic...... or self revealing.....
hmmmmmmmmm....

If you have a K-5, you can live up to the challenge as well. I Will donate all proceeds.

Actually, you guys can sell it and you can donate it. Just give me the receipts so that I can deduct.

[dcmsox2004]

dearest fontan.... i don't question your 645 ownership.....
however, if your not a k-5 owner, it is illogical for you to spew such negativism regarding it's capabilities in pragmatic usage..... so please cease and desist...
whilst the forum is sometimes contentious, you've not only pushed the envelope on this level, but obliterated it.....
you're opinions are valued, if they are in fact based upon your experiences with that you comment on...
your battle with creampuff must end, it has no place in this forum...
and btw, i do have a k-5, and a 15 plus year history with pentax film and digital cameras...

[qtopplings]

Fontan,

You certainly seem like a lier. Why all of the aggression? If you own the 645D, as you so proudly boast, then surely you have a picture you can post here, or a picture of the camera. Your response is one of someone who has been caught in a big lie. Do you really want to take someone's camera? Isn't knowing you are right and everyone else is wrong enough?

This conversation is silly, anyway. How about you go enjoy your "645D", and let us peasants enjoy our toy camera?

[dadipentak]

This conversation is silly, anyway

Extremely!

[Fontan]

dearest fontan.... i don't question your 645 ownership.....
however, if your not a k-5 owner, it is illogical for you to spew such negativism regarding it's capabilities in pragmatic usage..... so please cease and desist...
whilst the forum is sometimes contentious, you've not only pushed the envelope on this level, but obliterated it.....
you're opinions are valued, if they are in fact based upon your experiences with that you comment on...
your battle with creampuff must end, it has no place in this forum...
and btw, i do have a k-5, and a 15 plus year history with pentax film and digital cameras...

Well, spewing negativism is not how I describe it at least. Yes negative, and at times forcefully so, but I validate. I am exactly the same way with 645D. I have complaints and suggestions.

Again it is ok to feel strongly about k-5. If you came from K10D or K20D, I am sure that it is quite an experience. But for me, and I repeat this, and for me, having thoroughly explored K-7, what K-5 offer is not much of an upgrade.

People talk about gigantic leap and quantum leap and game-changers and so on, and yes I realize that definitions of those terms can change loosely. But for me, the leap that I ever saw was when I saw the prints of 645D. Not a whole lot phases me these days, but I was truly stunned. Now that is a leap. I am sorry, I just don't see that in K-5. I am going to say it again and again. It is not a bad camera. It is a fine camera. But so is K-7. For its time, it is my opinion that K-7 was ahead of its time more so than K-5 is now.

And, lastly, I do value opinions of someone like yourself who has much experience in photography. At least I can talk to you and find out what it is that YOU see in it. I would love someone to explain to me not so much the scientific testing numbers (while not denying their validity) but more about character, feel, warmness vs. coldness etc. Raving about dynamic range is not an argument, or a discussion.

Heated discussion is not a bad thing. Nobody is getting hurt. This is a good practice in getting your point across, after all that is what we do with photography, isn't it?

[Fontan]

Fontan,

You certainly seem like a lier. Why all of the aggression? If you own the 645D, as you so proudly boast, then surely you have a picture you can post here, or a picture of the camera. Your response is one of someone who has been caught in a big lie. Do you really want to take someone's camera? Isn't knowing you are right and everyone else is wrong enough?

This conversation is silly, anyway. How about you go enjoy your "645D", and let us peasants enjoy our toy camera?

OK. we have another challenger. Never mind my aggression. It is not like I am driving you over with a bus. You also have a K-5, don't you?? Are you up for a challenge too? If you are, along with Creampuff, willing to put up your K-5 for charity, this is what I will do for you.


1) Post a picture of 645D taken today (by my K-7, lol) on this thread. You can request any particular part of 645D that you would like to see. I suggest a picture of an area that is not found on the internet.

2) I will post a picture of the warranty card for the stupid camera.

3) I will post a picture of the receipt from Ace Photo. You have probably noticed perhaps that at B and H, and adorama, where I bought my lens BTW, they are out of stock. I will cross out the name and address for obvious reasons.


If you agree to terms, and if I reproduce all three, then you need to put your camera up for sale at market place here for $1,300. Have the buyer make a donation of that amount to Red Cross. You send the camera when you receive the receipt in the mail.

Well, what if I cannot reproduce them??? That is not possible. I am looking at all three items right now in front of me.

It is all for charity, and I am not making by any means fun of the situation there. I am very serious. Let's see you put the money where your mouth is, then you dish out for a good cause.

[Fontan]

Extremely!

But it is extremely entertaining. I like to argue. Also, now this can be for a good cause. But I do suggest that you at least listen to my argument. I am not saying stuff like K-5 is so bad that it is not even debatable. No. What seems silly to me is that it is so hard for some people to accept that K-5 isn't worth the upgrade for others. I do wonder though what percentage of existing K-7 owners have upgraded to K-5 so far. According to the general attitude of the thread, nearly all of them converted up. Is that the case? I think some of this is actually interesting.

[Fontan]

And lastly before the mods close the thread:

Again it is not the camera. If you take better pictures with a new camera, it is because you are more inspired as a photographer with new equipments (this happens in golf too, come to think of it). It is not because your sensor is better. That is just not the case.

If I am to criticize the sensor of K-5, and this based on 20 prints, mind you, is that it feels much like K20D's sensor from philosophical standpoint. It is sharp, edges are thin, and not as warm as I would like. A lot of that I can overcome on LR3 though.