K5 LCD question

skyoftexas · 04-04-2011, 08:17 AM

I used the K5 with Metz 58 AF-1 flash this weekend to shoot a wedding. Most of my reception shots were were under exposed (using bounce) but I did not realize it because they looked good on the LCD screen. Is there a way to get a more accurate visual interpretation from the LCD?

Michael

enoeske · 04-04-2011, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by skyoftexas

I used the K5 with Metz 58 AF-1 flash this weekend to shoot a wedding. Most of my reception shots were were under exposed (using bounce) but I did not realize it because they looked good on the LCD screen. Is there a way to get a more accurate visual interpretation from the LCD?

Michael

You can turn down the brightness of the display, that might make it more accurately reflect the actual exposure.

In terms of avoiding under/over-expsoure, do you know how to read a histogram? That would help a lot.

Wheatfield · 04-04-2011, 08:52 AM

Page 297 of your manual explains this.
+1 about learning to read a histogram.

JeffJS · 04-04-2011, 08:55 AM

What they said...

To go a little further, the beauty of the K5 is unless you've underexposed by 10 stops, the ability to recover your shots is nothing short of amazing. I'm surprised however, that you are reporting an Under exposure situation with bounce flash. The reports I normally see are Over exposure.

skyoftexas · 04-04-2011, 12:02 PM

I find histograms to be only somewhat helpful for wedding photography (I probably rely more on the blinkies), because one is always bending the exposure rules. Wedding photographers frequently over expose to add brilliance to bridal shots, and one doesn't necessarily want the reception hall to be as light as day. Therefore interpretation is needed, and visual with the LCD would be the most desirable. The Canon cameras I have used, or viewed with the other photographers I work with seem to handle it okay.

Wheatfield · 04-04-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by skyoftexas

I find histograms to be only somewhat helpful for wedding photography (I probably rely more on the blinkies), because one is always bending the exposure rules. Wedding photographers frequently over expose to add brilliance to bridal shots, and one doesn't necessarily want the reception hall to be as light as day. Therefore interpretation is needed, and visual with the LCD would be the most desirable. The Canon cameras I have used, or viewed with the other photographers I work with seem to handle it okay.

So what you are saying is that the Canon's you have seen (or used) had been properly calibrated, and your Pentax should be as good without being calibrated?
Your screen can be calibrated both for colour and density, read your manual, learn how to work your camera.

skyoftexas · 04-04-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

So what you are saying is that the Canon's you have seen (or used) had been properly calibrated, and your Pentax should be as good without being calibrated?
Your screen can be calibrated both for colour and density, read your manual, learn how to work your camera.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me something I don't know. But since I didn't include a biography on myself in post, I guess that makes it open for people such as yourself to make assumptions and jump on with both feet. I thought mentioning that I was shooting a wedding would give a hint that I at least know which end of the camera to point.

My question was whether there was already a discovered method to get a more responsive LCD screen on the K5. If simply lowering the brightness is the answer, then so be it. But somehow I doubt it. That sounds like to me one would have to constantly change it when one goes in and outside (such as one does in weddings). I believe the camera's monitor should be more sophisticated than that. Unless, you have in mind a more sophisticated calibration method. If so, please identify it, because such a method is NOT in the manual.

As far as Canon's being "properly calibrated," I don't think so. Given the circumstances in which I have been exposed to Canon cameras, I'm pretty sure no one is going around calibrating their monitors.

skyoftexas · 04-04-2011, 01:05 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret the lightness/darkness LCD adjustment to be a visual aid for the photographer when the ambient light (usually glaring sunshine) makes it difficult for him to see the screen. I do not believe it is meant to be a calibration tool to reflect correct exposure. If I am wrong, then how does one know when the screen is properly calibrated? The pictures looked good when I was shooting. What formula would I use to adjust the darkness of my screen so that I would know I was seeing correct exposure?

Wheatfield · 04-04-2011, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by skyoftexas

I'm still waiting for you to tell me something I don't know. But since I didn't include a biography on myself in post, I guess that makes it open for people such as yourself to make assumptions and jump on with both feet. I thought mentioning that I was shooting a wedding would give a hint that I at least know which end of the camera to point.

I've seen too many wedding photographers over my 40 year career as a wedding photographer to assume anyone knows even that much.
What you don't seem to know is that the histogram will be much more useful to you than any review screen adjustment.

Quote:

My question was whether there was already a discovered method to get a more responsive LCD screen on the K5. If simply lowering the brightness is the answer, then so be it. But somehow I doubt it. That sounds like to me one would have to constantly change it when one goes in and outside (such as one does in weddings). I believe the camera's monitor should be more sophisticated than that. Unless, you have in mind a more sophisticated calibration method. If so, please identify it, because such a method is NOT in the manual.

I adjusted my review screen so that it looks more or less like my calibrated monitor under the viewing conditions I have at my desk, but it really is only so so helpful compared to the histogram and a good solid knowledge of how the camera behaves.
I'm not sure how much more sophistication you think there should be. The screen has a fairly wide adjustment range for both colour and density, and I don't know of any screen on a camera that self adjusts for ambient light.
If you are going to adjust screen brightness to compensate for the light falling on it, you can only use it for checking composition, as exposure is no longer dependable.
What is even better is to learn how to expose so that you aren't checking the screen all the time. The K7/K5 is actually pretty good in this department, far better than previous generations of Pentax DSLRs.
In any case, the histogram will tell you far more about the technical quality of what you've got than the review screen will ever be capable of.

Quote:

As far as Canon's being "properly calibrated," I don't think so. Given the circumstances in which I have been exposed to Canon cameras, I'm pretty sure no one is going around calibrating their monitors.

Depending on the Canon, they may be coming from the factory with a closer calibration to the exposure, but even if they do, as soon as the screen density gets adjusted to compensate for the light falling on it, it can no longer be trusted for anything more than checking composition.

DogLover · 04-04-2011, 01:37 PM

If the problem is mainly the amount of ambient/direct light hitting the lcd, thus throwing off your ability to judge exposure, then I would highly recommend using a Hoodman lcd loupe (or a knock-off). I recently bought one of these and am finding it extremely useful. It comes with a lanyard so you can keep it around your neck and have it whenever you need it. At the very least, you can calibrate your lcd to only one setting, since it will always be the same through the loupe.

illdefined · 04-04-2011, 01:53 PM

I'd be curious if anyone has done serious testing and found out the optimal the LCD brightness and JPG parameters that most accurately represents the RAW exposure.

anyone? Falk?

illdefined · 04-04-2011, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Page 297 of your manual explains this.
+1 about learning to read a histogram.

I was under the impression the histogram (and the blinkies) ONLY represents the JPEG, and NOT the RAW.

what would be the most helpful would be to find the Jpeg and LCD settings that most accurately represent the RAW exposure. I have my JPEG settings set to minimum contrast for example, to better represent the K-5's high DR.

enoeske · 04-04-2011, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by illdefined

I was under the impression the histogram (and the blinkies) ONLY represents the JPEG, and NOT the RAW.

what would be the most helpful would be to find the Jpeg and LCD settings that most accurately represent the RAW exposure. I have my JPEG settings set to minimum contrast for example, to better represent the K-5's high DR.

Since the raw files do not go through jpeg processing, the jpeg-preview is most similar to the raw when the jpeg settings are on low. You can keep saturation or go to -1, but contrast etc should be on low.

illdefined · 04-04-2011, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

Since the raw files do not go through jpeg processing, the jpeg-preview is most similar to the raw when the jpeg settings are on low. You can keep saturation or go to -1, but contrast etc should be on low.

so the most equivalent to RAW for all settings is "-4" and not "0". has that been confirmed?

enoeske · 04-04-2011, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by illdefined

so the most equivalent to RAW for all settings is "-4" and not "0". has that been confirmed?

why don't you try it and confirm it for us?

04-04-2011, 08:17 AM	#1
skyoftexas Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 156	K5 LCD question I used the K5 with Metz 58 AF-1 flash this weekend to shoot a wedding. Most of my reception shots were were under exposed (using bounce) but I did not realize it because they looked good on the LCD screen. Is there a way to get a more accurate visual interpretation from the LCD? Michael

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04-04-2011, 08:48 AM	#2
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by skyoftexas I used the K5 with Metz 58 AF-1 flash this weekend to shoot a wedding. Most of my reception shots were were under exposed (using bounce) but I did not realize it because they looked good on the LCD screen. Is there a way to get a more accurate visual interpretation from the LCD? Michael You can turn down the brightness of the display, that might make it more accurately reflect the actual exposure. In terms of avoiding under/over-expsoure, do you know how to read a histogram? That would help a lot.

04-04-2011, 08:52 AM	#3
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,976	Page 297 of your manual explains this. +1 about learning to read a histogram.

04-04-2011, 08:55 AM	#4
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	What they said... To go a little further, the beauty of the K5 is unless you've underexposed by 10 stops, the ability to recover your shots is nothing short of amazing. I'm surprised however, that you are reporting an Under exposure situation with bounce flash. The reports I normally see are Over exposure.

04-04-2011, 12:02 PM	#5
skyoftexas Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 156 Original Poster	I find histograms to be only somewhat helpful for wedding photography (I probably rely more on the blinkies), because one is always bending the exposure rules. Wedding photographers frequently over expose to add brilliance to bridal shots, and one doesn't necessarily want the reception hall to be as light as day. Therefore interpretation is needed, and visual with the LCD would be the most desirable. The Canon cameras I have used, or viewed with the other photographers I work with seem to handle it okay.

04-04-2011, 12:24 PM	#6
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,976	Originally posted by skyoftexas I find histograms to be only somewhat helpful for wedding photography (I probably rely more on the blinkies), because one is always bending the exposure rules. Wedding photographers frequently over expose to add brilliance to bridal shots, and one doesn't necessarily want the reception hall to be as light as day. Therefore interpretation is needed, and visual with the LCD would be the most desirable. The Canon cameras I have used, or viewed with the other photographers I work with seem to handle it okay. So what you are saying is that the Canon's you have seen (or used) had been properly calibrated, and your Pentax should be as good without being calibrated? Your screen can be calibrated both for colour and density, read your manual, learn how to work your camera.

04-04-2011, 12:46 PM	#7
skyoftexas Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 156 Original Poster	Originally posted by Wheatfield So what you are saying is that the Canon's you have seen (or used) had been properly calibrated, and your Pentax should be as good without being calibrated? Your screen can be calibrated both for colour and density, read your manual, learn how to work your camera. I'm still waiting for you to tell me something I don't know. But since I didn't include a biography on myself in post, I guess that makes it open for people such as yourself to make assumptions and jump on with both feet. I thought mentioning that I was shooting a wedding would give a hint that I at least know which end of the camera to point. My question was whether there was already a discovered method to get a more responsive LCD screen on the K5. If simply lowering the brightness is the answer, then so be it. But somehow I doubt it. That sounds like to me one would have to constantly change it when one goes in and outside (such as one does in weddings). I believe the camera's monitor should be more sophisticated than that. Unless, you have in mind a more sophisticated calibration method. If so, please identify it, because such a method is NOT in the manual. As far as Canon's being "properly calibrated," I don't think so. Given the circumstances in which I have been exposed to Canon cameras, I'm pretty sure no one is going around calibrating their monitors.

04-04-2011, 01:05 PM	#8
skyoftexas Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States Posts: 156 Original Poster	Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpret the lightness/darkness LCD adjustment to be a visual aid for the photographer when the ambient light (usually glaring sunshine) makes it difficult for him to see the screen. I do not believe it is meant to be a calibration tool to reflect correct exposure. If I am wrong, then how does one know when the screen is properly calibrated? The pictures looked good when I was shooting. What formula would I use to adjust the darkness of my screen so that I would know I was seeing correct exposure?

04-04-2011, 01:25 PM	#9
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,976	Originally posted by skyoftexas I'm still waiting for you to tell me something I don't know. But since I didn't include a biography on myself in post, I guess that makes it open for people such as yourself to make assumptions and jump on with both feet. I thought mentioning that I was shooting a wedding would give a hint that I at least know which end of the camera to point. I've seen too many wedding photographers over my 40 year career as a wedding photographer to assume anyone knows even that much. What you don't seem to know is that the histogram will be much more useful to you than any review screen adjustment. Quote: My question was whether there was already a discovered method to get a more responsive LCD screen on the K5. If simply lowering the brightness is the answer, then so be it. But somehow I doubt it. That sounds like to me one would have to constantly change it when one goes in and outside (such as one does in weddings). I believe the camera's monitor should be more sophisticated than that. Unless, you have in mind a more sophisticated calibration method. If so, please identify it, because such a method is NOT in the manual. I adjusted my review screen so that it looks more or less like my calibrated monitor under the viewing conditions I have at my desk, but it really is only so so helpful compared to the histogram and a good solid knowledge of how the camera behaves. I'm not sure how much more sophistication you think there should be. The screen has a fairly wide adjustment range for both colour and density, and I don't know of any screen on a camera that self adjusts for ambient light. If you are going to adjust screen brightness to compensate for the light falling on it, you can only use it for checking composition, as exposure is no longer dependable. What is even better is to learn how to expose so that you aren't checking the screen all the time. The K7/K5 is actually pretty good in this department, far better than previous generations of Pentax DSLRs. In any case, the histogram will tell you far more about the technical quality of what you've got than the review screen will ever be capable of. Quote: As far as Canon's being "properly calibrated," I don't think so. Given the circumstances in which I have been exposed to Canon cameras, I'm pretty sure no one is going around calibrating their monitors. Depending on the Canon, they may be coming from the factory with a closer calibration to the exposure, but even if they do, as soon as the screen density gets adjusted to compensate for the light falling on it, it can no longer be trusted for anything more than checking composition.

04-04-2011, 01:37 PM	#10
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	If the problem is mainly the amount of ambient/direct light hitting the lcd, thus throwing off your ability to judge exposure, then I would highly recommend using a Hoodman lcd loupe (or a knock-off). I recently bought one of these and am finding it extremely useful. It comes with a lanyard so you can keep it around your neck and have it whenever you need it. At the very least, you can calibrate your lcd to only one setting, since it will always be the same through the loupe.

04-04-2011, 01:53 PM	#11
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	I'd be curious if anyone has done serious testing and found out the optimal the LCD brightness and JPG parameters that most accurately represents the RAW exposure. anyone? Falk?

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04-04-2011, 02:13 PM	#12
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by Wheatfield Page 297 of your manual explains this. +1 about learning to read a histogram. I was under the impression the histogram (and the blinkies) ONLY represents the JPEG, and NOT the RAW. what would be the most helpful would be to find the Jpeg and LCD settings that most accurately represent the RAW exposure. I have my JPEG settings set to minimum contrast for example, to better represent the K-5's high DR.

04-04-2011, 02:16 PM	#13
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by illdefined I was under the impression the histogram (and the blinkies) ONLY represents the JPEG, and NOT the RAW. what would be the most helpful would be to find the Jpeg and LCD settings that most accurately represent the RAW exposure. I have my JPEG settings set to minimum contrast for example, to better represent the K-5's high DR. Since the raw files do not go through jpeg processing, the jpeg-preview is most similar to the raw when the jpeg settings are on low. You can keep saturation or go to -1, but contrast etc should be on low.

04-04-2011, 02:26 PM	#14
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by enoeske Since the raw files do not go through jpeg processing, the jpeg-preview is most similar to the raw when the jpeg settings are on low. You can keep saturation or go to -1, but contrast etc should be on low. so the most equivalent to RAW for all settings is "-4" and not "0". has that been confirmed?

04-04-2011, 02:32 PM	#15
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Originally posted by illdefined so the most equivalent to RAW for all settings is "-4" and not "0". has that been confirmed? why don't you try it and confirm it for us?