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04-18-2011, 05:57 PM   #16
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This goes to the thread a couple of weeks ago that Christine opened, but I prefer the panned type of bike shot with slower shutter speed where motion of rotating wheels is shown. Much more emotive of the biking experience than freezing a point in time, IMO.

Jack

04-18-2011, 06:36 PM   #17
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Hi Deiberson,

I think that the K-5 will be very capable of following the action. The K-10 is significantly behind the K20, which is not as good as the K-7, and the K-5 should be noticeably better than the K-7. Last year I took my K10, K20, and K-7 to directly compare them, and I could get get @ 30-40% from the K10, 50-60% from the K20, and 80-95% with the K-7 -- there's that much difference.

I'd suggest that you help the camera as much as possible.

Use as few Auto features as possible to put as little strain on the processor as you can.

Start with the lens prefocused at close to the starting point of the series, and wait for an initial focus confirmation before beginning the string (using the audible beep is a help for me).

Use focus priority in AF-C. This may slow the frame rate, but probably not by much.

Use 5 point Multi Focus Point Selection. Start with framing the subject in the center and try to keep it there by panning. Any wobbliness in the panning action will most likely be compensated for with the 5 point Auto selection.

The K-7 and K-5 are considerably easier to track moving subjects with because of the shorter VF blackout periods.

You've got a bike and the camera. I'd suggest you try different approaches before the race and see which works for you. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Scott
04-18-2011, 09:14 PM   #18
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Future Bike Racer

QuoteOriginally posted by Deiberson Quote
I shoot a lot of cycling events. Well, my wife shoots a lot of them when I'm racing. I've been reading a lot about the improvements of the AF system of the K5. What is the best way to capitalize on the improved tracking? I notice she takes a lot of back focused shots on my K10 or even KX.
Here's a scenario....
I'm coming at her from right to left

When she half presses the shutter, lets say AF-S.....and the red square locks on the right side of the viewfinder.....

will the tracking keep "ME" in focus as I move across the viewfinder to the left side without my wife having to pan.....or is it only locking the focus of that predetermined area? Will she still need to pan me from right to left keeping me on the right side of the viewfinder since that's where the focus lock is?
Ok,

I admit that I am not an action shooter and also that this sequence is not a challenge compared to a real bike race , but my K20d would miss a significant number of shots in a sequence like this:






These were shot with SR off, AFC, 5 point auto, high enough ISO to get a fast enough shutter speed to stop the action. DA* 50-135, probably f5.6, Raw. FPS was slow mode. I just held the center area on his body, panned and let the camera do it's thing.

The sequences were all acceptably sharp, and most very well focused.

I cannot count the number of complaints about Pentax I have heard over the years about not being able to focus on the kids in shots like this, and while this kind of action should not be difficult , the K5 is miles ahead of the K20 in my (limited) AFC experience so far. I was ready to toss the Pentax gear last summer when my K20 could not follow a bride's mother walking down the aisle (in bright daylight) well enough to get one shot that I considered acceptable. Had the K5 not come along (well, after firmware 1.03 anyway), I would be shooting a Nikon D700 right now.

I think you have received some good advice on how to get some good shots with the K5 and will get good results. Frankly, bikes might be reasonably fast, but they are mainly following a fairly predictable path, so other than picking you out of a group of other spandex-suited riders, the K5 should be up to the task.

Ray
04-19-2011, 12:01 AM   #19
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i havent struggled too much with my k20 and its af-c i got a whole series of karting shots (and trust me these are fast) when shooting a friends son racing... these were taken with the k20 on af-c and a sigma 70-300 non apo cheapo nasty lens in its upper reaches...

i didnt struggle with the camera too much... and hunting didnt seem to occur as much as what you read tends to suggest... i dont have exact figures but there was probably about 10-15% of shots that werent useable... K5 and 7 improved... so they must be much better!... and yes i know the exif is missing... google seems to strip them out on the web based files?

Thanks

Steve







Last edited by 5teve; 04-19-2011 at 12:11 AM.
04-20-2011, 02:44 AM   #20
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Shooting cyclist should not be a very big problem, especially when they will pass a number of times. It's another story when shooting a proffesional tour where you only see them for about 20 seconds.
The great thing with digital is that you can do some exercise shooting you on the bike in ADVANCE and all it will cost you is some time. You can just go out in the neighbourhood or street and do your passing by on your bike and let your wife try to get the action shots with various options. Then see which options delivers the most or best shots and use it for the race.
If I had to shoot you in these circumstances I would go for panning, use shutterspeed of 1/125-1/250, AF-C and high-speed FPS. Since I shoot sports frequently I may have a head start here.
04-21-2011, 10:31 AM   #21
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Shots like these are easy....This was with my K10D


Shots like this are giving her trouble.....and sometimes me too. Seems like I get a lot of back focus. Perhaps the Tamron 70-200 is a large contribution to this?
04-21-2011, 04:08 PM   #22
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Too Slow?

QuoteOriginally posted by Deiberson Quote
Shots like these are easy....This was with my K10D


Shots like this are giving her trouble.....and sometimes me too. Seems like I get a lot of back focus. Perhaps the Tamron 70-200 is a large contribution to this?
I would not say that back focus is the issue. Rather, I think it is the fact that the camera was too slow and did not achieve lock before the action moved elsewhere.

Alternately, it could be a case of locking on the wrong subject to begin with due to the clutter.

Objects moving directly towards you (or close to it) are the hardest, and with the older bodies, even harder.

One strategy would be to try and locate in a spot that is more to the side of the action if possible.

Ray
04-21-2011, 09:33 PM   #23
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I'll make a couple of assumptions here...the target in the last shot is the Hi Tec shirt just behind the rider in yellow...??

If so, the focus is actually pretty good...the composition of the shot is lacking.

If not, and the rider in yellow is the target then I would be really tewmpted to either pan with AFS or switch to manual focus and keep my finger on the shutter button.

I have used the catch in facility, but that also needs a bit of pre-emptive planning and knowledge of where your subject is going to be at a given moment....a bit hard in the situation you are illustrating here.

Experimentation is the key.

05-05-2011, 10:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mallee Boy Quote
I'll make a couple of assumptions here...the target in the last shot is the Hi Tec shirt just behind the rider in yellow...??
The rider in yellow I'd assume. Which is the dilemma.
QuoteOriginally posted by andre-mz5 Quote
f I had to shoot you in these circumstances I would go for panning, use shutterspeed of 1/125-1/250, AF-C and high-speed FPS
This is what I'm having a tough time understanding. I think it would be better to use focus priority rather than FPS priority. I want the attention of the camera focusing on the subject not the speed of the shutter.

I don't even want to explain catch in focus to her. I love CIF for manual primes, but not AF zooms shooting action at 30 mph.
05-05-2011, 03:52 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
This goes to the thread a couple of weeks ago that Christine opened, but I prefer the panned type of bike shot with slower shutter speed where motion of rotating wheels is shown. Much more emotive of the biking experience than freezing a point in time, IMO.

Jack
I'm not sure which thread you are referring to but if you are talking about my pictures of the recent triathlon - yeah, I ended up preferring the ones taken at lower shutter speeds with the motion blur around the wheels.

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to taking photos of cyclists (even though I cycle myself).

I tried a few times on my K10D and they were disastrous - the K10D has a tendency to back focus.

On the K-5 I get better shots but I'm nowhere near perfect. Eventually I'll like to get to the point where I can focus on a specific cyclist but AF isn't going to alllow me to get to that precision.

I've been practising manual focusing and I think cyclists are slow enough (!) that manual focusing and tracking a specific cyclist may be possible.

I tried manual focusing and tracking kayaks (with shallow DOF) on my A135 at Sydney Harbour last Sun and it was doable. Now I just need to get a lot better in order to track cyclists.
05-05-2011, 04:22 PM   #26
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Wouldn't a smaller aperture help with the focus. With more depth of field comes more subjects in focus, no? With an aperture of at least f11, wouldn't all those subjects be in focus?
05-05-2011, 04:38 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by tele_pathic Quote
Wouldn't a smaller aperture help with the focus. With more depth of field comes more subjects in focus, no? With an aperture of at least f11, wouldn't all those subjects be in focus?
Yeah, but it would be a very boring photo.

I suspect the OP would probably like to isolate the winning cyclist at end of a race, or focus on a specific cyclist making a winning move, so it's important to have a DOF shallow enough to do that.

Of course, it's possible to take a photo at f11 and then digitally blur everything but the target subject, but where's the fun in that? :-)
05-06-2011, 02:15 AM   #28
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I'm racing tomorrow. My plan was to have my wife shoot in AV rather than TV. My focus will be on aperture rather than shutter speed. I'll have her control the aperture with the ISO hoping she can keep the shutter relatively high.

The dof won't be a concern since the problem is generally when she's shooting in a group. Isolated subjects are generally ok.

The problem is that it's not me taking the shots. I'd be able to chimp it and trouble shoot the issue. She can't. She's searching for Green mode.
05-06-2011, 02:49 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Deiberson Quote
I'm racing tomorrow. My plan was to have my wife shoot in AV rather than TV.
Why not TAv? say f=5.6 and speed 1/125s. She should be able to get some great photos.

It's best if she waits for the bike to get into frame before taking the shot.

But the other option is for her to pan and track, and shoot in continuous mode and AF.C. This approach is less likely to get a good shot, but when she does it will be a great shot with hopefully fantastic motion blurring.
05-06-2011, 03:54 AM   #30
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I believe the better option is to bump the iso and keep the shutter over 500. It will be mid day sun so at most i'll be shooting @ iso 800. for the k5, that's peanuts.
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