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01-28-2012, 02:07 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
I searched this and a couple of other threads for someone who asks, "Why are some recommending stereo microphones for a camera which produces a mono 32kHz 512kbps PCM file as its output audio stream?" I don't see any such question so I'll ask it myself. Stereo in does not result in stereo out.

According to the K5 specs at dpreview it should be able to record stereo with an external mic, Is that wrong?
I don't have an external mic so I can't try it myself.

01-28-2012, 02:40 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Entropy Quote
The Audio-Technica PRO-24 CM is around $70-80 and pretty good.

I would not recommend the RODE SVM for use with a K-5 - pairing a $250 mic with 32 kHz sampling and forced AGC seems to me like a bad idea and a waste of money. If you go beyond the PRO-24 go with a standalone recorder. I don't have experience with them yet, but the Zoom H series are fairly well regarded especially for providing excellent price/performance. I'm very close to pulling the trigger in an H2 for surround recording.
Yep! Agree 100% I use the same mic. Never lets me down!

01-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
I am disappointed that Pentax did not go with stereo for the K-5. How much sense does it make to offer HD video with only Monaural audio?
Doesn't it have stereo in?


What i do is connect the microphone to the recorder, split the audio out of the recorder, ones goes to the camera and the other to headphones for monitoring.
This way i've high quality record but since i also have the audio with the video it just make it easier to match.


Anyway Rode is coming out with two new mics design for DSLR.
One is a shotgun with a build in recorder, the other is a stereo mic.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-video-hdslrs/172483-new-rode-mics-coming.html
01-29-2012, 01:05 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Doesn't it have stereo in?


What i do is connect the microphone to the recorder, split the audio out of the recorder, ones goes to the camera and the other to headphones for monitoring.
This way i've high quality record but since i also have the audio with the video it just make it easier to match.
The point is that the video file produced by the camera contains a monaural audio stream. It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that plugging in a stereo microphone will suddenly change the camera's output file format to one with 2 channel audio. I haven't tested it but cameras do not normally behave that way. Has anyone plugged in a stereo microphone into a K-5 and gotten a video file out which has stereo sound with real stereo separation? I think the answer will be no. So it is silly to plug in a stereo microphone. If I'm wrong, I would like to know. We should instead do one of two things: (1) Get a really good mono microphone such as the Sennheiser MKE400. or (2) Use an external stereo recording device such as the H2 and then merge the sound file with the video in the video editor software, which requires effort to assure a proper sync.

I'm saying: Maybe the microphone jack is stereo but it will just get mixed down to mono and recorded as mono.

01-29-2012, 05:10 AM   #20
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A Sony alternative if mono is ok.

I used to work for Sony and this is my all time favourite Sony product that nobody seems to know about-
ECM-AW3 | Bluetooth
Don't dismiss this thing that it is Blutooth, it is incredible!!! It has a range of like 50m through walls !!!
It has heaps of cool features like headphone jacks to monitor, one on the source and a mic on the receiver......this allows you to direct the person you are shooting vocally!
One caveat is the battery life- it takes a regular AA battery per unit- handy as you may have these anyway- They have very good standby but will suck the juice on continuous recording. So depending on how you shoot it may or may not be suitable.
I know this sounds like a paid commercial presentation but at its price it is a viable solution before getting into expensive pro wireless setups.
If you have a Sony Style where you live I warn you if you try it you will buy this!

Last edited by Tonto; 01-29-2012 at 05:19 AM.
01-29-2012, 05:28 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
The point is that the video file produced by the camera contains a monaural audio stream. It seems EXTREMELY unlikely that plugging in a stereo microphone will suddenly change the camera's output file format to one with 2 channel audio. I haven't tested it but cameras do not normally behave that way. Has anyone plugged in a stereo microphone into a K-5 and gotten a video file out which has stereo sound with real stereo separation? I think the answer will be no. So it is silly to plug in a stereo microphone. If I'm wrong, I would like to know. We should instead do one of two things: (1) Get a really good mono microphone such as the Sennheiser MKE400. or (2) Use an external stereo recording device such as the H2 and then merge the sound file with the video in the video editor software, which requires effort to assure a proper sync.

I'm saying: Maybe the microphone jack is stereo but it will just get mixed down to mono and recorded as mono.
I think it gets recorded as a stereo if you use an external stereo compatible microphone. At least mine does. Its only 32 KHz, but it is still stereo with two channels that you can edit separately if you want.
01-29-2012, 05:30 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
Has anyone plugged in a stereo microphone into a K-5 and gotten a video file out which has stereo sound with real stereo separation?
I think you should ask some of the folks in the Video section of PFF. No doubt the K-7 has the same setup as the K-5, and so by now there must be plenty of folks who can verify that the K-7/K-5 can do genuine stereo (or not).

I have an on camera stereo external mic but it is only for my NEX-5, and in true Sony fashion it only works with a proprietary connector to the camera, not a standard stereo plug. So I can't test the matter out myself.
01-29-2012, 05:58 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
I'm saying: Maybe the microphone jack is stereo but it will just get mixed down to mono and recorded as mono.
I am a total newb when it comes to sound / video recording, but my question is:
As the microphone incorporated in the K5 is monaural, it seems normal to obtain monaural sound when recording a video without external microphone.
Now does that automatically mean that the rest of the electronics cannot record stereo?
My (poor) understanding of the subject was that the same electronics could record whatever was available at the time. Monaural sound from built-in mic, or stereo input from external mic.

François

01-29-2012, 10:44 AM - 2 Likes   #24
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I'd like to refer to some posts in this thread.

K5 sound quality:

I tested the K5 movie sound recording capabilities with stereo tone today. Setup:

- K5 connected to a MP3 player via stereo cable (you don't need a stereo mic to test sound in your Video).
- Played a stereo song with the MP3 player while recording a movie with the K5. For the test I recorded a HD video (1280x720).

I checked the result on my Mac. Quicktime showed the technical information of the movie. The K5 recorded the sound on 2 channels with 32.000 Hz sample rate. CDs do have a sample rate of 44.100 Hz and DVDs of 48.000 Hz. So, stereo sound recorded with K5 cannot be professional. In Cubase I compared the curves of the two channels. They are not equal. So I guess it's really stereo.

How do I get good sound quality in K5 videos:

IMHO - if you want really good sound you should consider a portable external sound recording solution with at least two integrated Mics (something like ZOOM H1 / H2 / H4N device with the ability to record in wav-files). Cubase (by example) offers the capability to read Video files and split sound and image information. If you apply this and add the soundtrack(s) of the external recorder you can optimize the sound using functions like equalizers, filters, compressors etc. Being comfortable with the result you can mix it down to a stereo track and replace the original mono sound track by the high quality and optimized stereo sound track of your external recording device. The K5 recorded mono track you can use to adjust the position of the stereo track within the video.

My conclusion: buying an external stereo mic with the intension to record stereo sound directly by the K5 might not lead to the sound quality you wish. Maybe an external recording device combined with an appropriate software is the better solution.
01-29-2012, 04:56 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
I checked the result on my Mac. Quicktime showed the technical information of the movie. The K5 recorded the sound on 2 channels with 32.000 Hz sample rate. CDs do have a sample rate of 44.100 Hz and DVDs of 48.000 Hz. So, stereo sound recorded with K5 cannot be professional. In Cubase I compared the curves of the two channels. They are not equal. So I guess it's really stereo.
That's amazing. Based on your test, the Pentax firmware changes the video file format from mono to stereo when you plug in a stereo microphone. Think about that a sec. That means that if you plug a microphone in while you are taking a series of video segments, the various segments will have differing file formats. Some video editors may not be able to automatically concatenate the video into a single file. However it is a good thing that Pentax records stereo when available.

The mono stream is 512kbps, which gives 16 bit per sample. If the stereo stream is the same quality, it will be 1Mbps.

My 3 critiques are now only two: the 32k sample rate and the undefeatable AGC.

Last edited by Skymist; 01-29-2012 at 11:13 PM.
01-30-2012, 11:08 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
The mono stream is 512kbps, which gives 16 bit per sample. If the stereo stream is the same quality, it will be 1Mbps.
With linear PCM 16 Bit little Endian integer (shown in Quicktime) you get: 2 channels x 16 bit x 32,000 Hz (samples/sec.) = 1,024,000 Bit/sec. = 1 Mbps.
02-05-2012, 07:58 PM   #27
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I verified it: without a microphone attached, the K-5 makes a monaural file. Connect a stereo source to the mic-in and it makes a stereo file.
So, you will not be able to append files using most software (such as MKVmerge) unless they are all mono or stereo, or you do a conversion first. I don't think the savings in file size is balanced by the inconvenience.
02-05-2012, 09:53 PM   #28
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Babbs,
I uploaded both K-5 and K-r videos to YouTube yesterday and noticed the same blip or tick sound. I didn't hear it when playing the video on my local computer but certainly heard it on YouTube. I don't know why you can hear it when uploaded to Youtube. I don't know whether the camera or YouTube is at fault.
02-05-2012, 10:16 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Skymist Quote
Yes, something like the Zoom H1 for instance. I was thinking of that myself. But, synchronizing is such a tedious task in an editor, and not all editors make it convenient to do either. I would like to hear from someone who does that and is happy with the process, to learn how they like to do it. I am disappointed that Pentax did not go with stereo for the K-5. How much sense does it make to offer HD video with only Monaural audio?
FWIW, it helps to hit the record on both the camera and audio device and then clap your hands. It should be relatively easier in your NLE to identify the peaks from the clap and line them up.
02-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #30
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Hence the advent of these.

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