[Croc]

Since Croc's K-5 experience does not remotely mirror mine, (s)he wins today's "Ignore" award.

Cheers...

ignorance is bliss, isn't it

[Croc]

Ignorance could also be not having your AF dialed in correctly. I've never had problems with the AF on my Pentaxes not being accurate (I use fast primes almost exclusively).

did you even look at the photos i linked? no changes to AF adjustment yet under different light conditions cameras focus differently, multiple camera and multiple lenses, please tell me how this got anything to do with AF being dialed in incorrectly, please tell me, clearly you know something i dont because i operate by logic and there just isnt any with how this AF works when used under some conditions.

I can pull out focus test chart and get perfect 1/3-2/3 AF lock in my office as it should be but let me try snapping photo of my wife chilli plant outside in a garden on sunny day and it is all wrong with AF so please tell me how should i adjust it?

AF is moving target with pentax and that is just wrong
for the love of god even thread linked here that meant to show how AF problem is only urban myth have photo showing nothing more but the very oposite with only F1.4 shot being badly out of focus and rest with very high aperture setting that creates dof so huge it makes it pointless to even post in that thread yet everyone goes, "uh oh what is soft? just look at my sharp photo" but then in small print we see f11 being used, so i ask what the hell?

if i didn't have so much money invested in to pentax i would make a switch already but i got my fingers crossed that next model will put such issues to bed right now it would just hurt too much to replace all lenses, flash, memory cards and whatever else there is in my collection pentax specific.

[Croc]

No, I look at my own photos.
As for the rest, it isn't a problem I've noted, but I set my cameras up once and don't mess things up with multiple calibrations.
I'm sorry you can't seem to make things work, but I can't help but think you are kicking the target and then complaining about how it moves.

oh really, i kick the target, seriously please do tell how and where did i kick it?

let me put it all in few points and you tell me which part is that i'm doing wrong.

1. get camera
2. open box put lens on it
3. take photos, wow it is fantastic that k5....
4. but then i go outside, take some more photos, hmmm my shots are OOF
5. make AF adjustment, wow its perfect again.
6. back inside, hmm something not right here now
7. get 2nd lens, no not it, same thing
8. get 2nd camera, no not it, same thing
9. try neightbour gear, different model, different copy of the same lens SAME PROBLEM
10. hit head against brick wall few times, still not better.

where is it that i kicked it? which point is it, without a question you know better than me so please help.
lets make it fun, first person to provide me with settings that will fix this problem will get $100 from me.

EDIT: also mr. Wheatfield how can you reply at all or worst with all that finger pointing if you didn't even look at the examples i linked to? as far i see it your posts on this topic are nothing more but worthless trolling, you don't want to look at the provided evidence yet you want to call judgment on me being the kicker? get real and of your high horse

[stevebrot]

Sorry you are unhappy with your Pentax AF. Perhaps you would prefer to join the legions of people who are unhappy with their Canon AF...or perhaps Nikon AF? Strange as it may seem, all AF systems have their detractors and all systems have their weak points.

Seriously, ask yourself the question what you are expected the system to do. Give particular emphasis to issues of accurate focus when DOF is measured in mm (say a 50/1.4 or 77/1.7 at close portrait range wide open). Think carefully about what type of AF logic must be present for the AF to determine which point on a receding curved surface you are intending for the point of focus. Think about small changes in subject/camera position after focus has been determined. Think about other causes of soft images. Consider carefully the truth that pixel peeping defeats the conventions of DOF theory (translation...if you magnify an image enough, you will never have adequate focus accuracy with other than a true plane surface). Ask yourself how good a job YOUR EYES backed by the most sophisticated evaluation system on the globe (your mind) might do with the same subject using the best available focus screen.


Steve

(...doesn't expect his camera to know what is supposed to be in focus...)

[stevebrot]

first person to provide me with settings that will fix this problem will get $100 from me.

Turn AF off and focus with your eyes. You may PM me for my PayPal information to send payment, preferably as a "gift".


Steve

[Croc]

Turn AF off and focus with your eyes. You may PM me for my PayPal information to send payment, preferably as a "gift".


Steve

if only i had better eyes i would, they not very bad but small viewfinder and manual focus just don't work with my eyes.
as soon as you provide real FIX i will send the payment, no jokes about that at all

also in reply to your other post, i do understand all of what you said and my expectations are not crazy, at 6meters 50mm and f2.8 i should have subject in focus, yet it isn't.
but figure that, 50mm f1.4 at less then 1meter and i have PERFECT focus yet the DOF is just under 10mm, and this is not once off lucky shot too, i can get it every time under some conditions so clearly AF on K5 can work REALLY WELL, which makes the issues even more frustrating

EDIT: here is great example why this problem gets on my nerves
the gear is able to take FANTASTIC photos but unless AF is monitored at all times and adjusted as needed photos are ruined (outdoor shots AF on +7, indoor AF on 0) first 3 are f2.8 while the last was at f3.5 and at greated distance so dof was quite extended but i included to show another example how great photos one can get with pentax gear yet same day i walked outside of that game and the few photos taken outdoors with nothing changed on camera ended being all out of focus

[Rupert]

Who will step up and accuse me of being a Fanboy? I fought the K5 Wars with gusto, and never once backed down or was silenced, although regrettably, I did make some enemies. War does result in casualties..... but when the Firmware came, and the War was over, I ordered the K5 almost instantly.

Likewise, I don't think anyone here could find a negative comment I have made about the K5 since....and with perfect reason, it is a superb camera in every respect. Focusing has been a dream come true, and even my old very slow (hunts like a Coon Dog) Bigma is now much faster and more accurate than I ever dreamed it could be. That is very significant for a Squirrel shooter. My other lenses all work superbly, and if there is a problem, I can locate it easily.....just behind the camera, standing there like a dumb-ass.

Now I am certainly not saying you don't have a problem, my wife is superb, but it doesn't mean everyone that has a wife can say the same. What I am saying, and I post and view on this Forum regularly, is that your problem is Absolutely Not typical of the K5. Maybe someone here can help you, I hope so, because this is One Fine Camera, and I wouldn't want to see anyone miss out on the joys it brings to photography.
Best Regards!

[Fl_Gulfer]

your problem is Absolutely Not typical of the K5

Here Here!

[stevebrot]

Croc,
Thank you for explaining the issue of poor vision. We have had several forum members over the years who have moved to AF cameras due to poor or declining vision. Some have been thrilled with the results while others (like you) have been disappointed.

I spent some time with the images you have posted as examples and I am quite unwilling at this point to say anything one way or another regarding your camera's performance. Normally, I would say plenty, but your examples have been stripped of their exif data and there is little to go from. On one, I suspect that the AF point was other than your subject (the Seasol photo). On the pole, I wonder if the camera was set to AF-C and had not locked to subject (AF-C is a curse and a bane under most circumstances). No green hexagon, no focus. Based on the OOF background comparison between the two shots, I believe that the focus plane is about 6" behind the pole. With the bookcase photo, the focus point is not at center, but appears to be to the right of center on the hat.

You may want to take one of the higher-end Nikon products for a test drive. The predictive AF is supposed to be seriously great for moving subjects. Not 100% accurate, but better than most.

BTW...I am not a huge fan of AF, particularly with fast lenses. It has been my experience that the AF systems lack adequate precision to provide consistently acceptable performance for fine work. Add to that the issue of determining the desired point of focus when DOF is limited and nothing good happens.


Steve

[dgaies]

Our friend dgais has many fast lenses, why don't we ask him to take a few indoor/outdoor test to see if he can't replicate some of these issues?

However, I've not uncovered any outdoor issue on our K-5's with faster lenses(50/1.4)

Hey John, I didn't see this thread until this afternoon, so I realize I am a bit "late to the party", but I'll throw my two cents in nonetheless. As you said, I do have lots of fast glass, and have owned a K-5 just about as long as anyone (pre-ordered it last summer). I've also had three different K-5 bodies since that time (first two copies were returned for stain issues) and am fully aware of the stain issue as well as the low-light front-focus issue.

Regarding the issue the OP describes, I'm afraid I don't have any insight as to why he (specifically) is having these issues. I don't find I need a different calibration for indoor vs outdoor shots, even in very low light (with firmware v1.03). Overall, I've been satisfied with the AF of the K-5 and certainly don't feel it's an issue for me personally. Again, I am not suggesting that the OP isn't having a legitimate problem, I am merely stating that I do not feel I have the same issues when using my K-5 with fast glass.

edited to add the following:

BTW...I am not a huge fan of AF, particularly with fast lenses. It has been my experience that the AF systems lack adequate precision to provide consistently acceptable performance for fine work. Add to that the issue of determining the desired point of focus when DOF is limited and nothing good happens.

This is a valid point too. For several reasons, AF systems can struggle with perfect focus at very large apertures on any system. Perhaps other systems (Canon/Nikon) do a better job, but I know that they have their share off issues as the DOF gets thin enough.

[sworks]

I'm new to Pentax and only have one lens, 35mm 2.8 macro Ltd. I've adjusted the focus to +2 and have been very happy with my close ups/macros indoors in bright sunlight for the past few weeks. However, today using the camera at an event, outdoors in brilliant sunshine from f5 to f8, all 50 or so pics that I took are fuzzy to my eyes and I'm very disappointed. I'm not a technical person and I really don't want to have to calibrate my lens over and over again!

[SteveB]

i went over every picture in that thread and NON of them demonstrates death of urban legend about K5 being soft, I don't think i seen even one picture that is sharp in that whole thread and was shot at f1.4, NOT ONE

I see plenty of sharp images in that thread. The K-5 has an EFFECTIVE AA filter so 100% images will have a certain softness to them. There's always a toss-up between no/weak AA filter with attendant moire, false detail and jagged line problems vs. an overly strong AA filter that needs too much sharpening and hence noise problems. The K-5 AA looks about right. By way of comparison, I've seen some fairly horrendous moire on D7000 images but none on the K-5, and the K-5's low noise means sharpening images won't cause huge problems so it seems the best compromise. Images from Bayer sensors shouldn't be judged at 100% anyway, they're just never going to look dead right, there will always be something lacking. I tend to judge images at 50%.

[Ash]

Sorry Croc, I'm going to call your bluff again on this one.
I have plenty of wide open shots with all of my FA limiteds that are sharp. None available at present since I'm well away from home base, but I can vouch that NONE of my images were out of focus, let alone by a long shot as you claim the K-5 is responsible for. In this thread: K-5 1.03 versus K20D AF tests - PentaxForums.com, I have done my tests to find the rarest occasion when I was able make my K-5 front focus ONCE in very poor lighting conditions. This rectified immediately when I re-engaged AF for the same scene.

As for your photo examples, they aren't exemplary of the issue you describe (issues of non-static subjects and likely possibility of camera shake), nor are they well taken in general for the purposes of demonstration. After tens of thousands of images taken, these aren't the kind to present here to prove your point. Where is this off focusing' by a country mile' in your images? How is your technique in focusing? Are you locking focus then recomposing? What focusing modes are you on? AF-C? fps-priority? There are just so many possibilities to your issues that I'm dubious (at this stage) it is the camera.

Pentax does listen to its userbase, as seen from the result of this thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/134215-lumolabs-pentax...published.html, but the camera can still never be perfect for everyone. As mentioned many times in many threads, even the most expensive cameras can be buggy and unreliable. The K-5 has its quirks, AF notwithstanding, but is still a decently reliable tool on the whole and does the job to expectations.

Sorry if yours doesn't do so, but that doesn't negate the positive experiences of a large number of users here and outside the forum with the K-5.

[dgaies]

Sorry if yours doesn't do so, but that doesn't negate the positive experiences of a large number of users here and outside the forum with the K-5.

Croc, can you confirm you are using the latest firmware, v1.03. I don't recall seeing that explicitly stated. Other than a hardware issue with your specific body, that's about the only other thing I can think of that might be an issue. As Ash said above, the majority of people seem to be happy with the focusing accuracy of the K-5, especially post firmware v1.03.

[DogLover]

I'm with Ash, I think it's user error as you've not displayed anything that would prove otherwise. My K5 has deadly accurate AF in virtually any light. In fact, I'm not sure how long it will take me to stop being constantly amazed by it.

It could also be your admittedly bad eyesight. If you don't think there are any sharp photos in that "death of the soft K5" thread, then that says volumes.