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05-04-2011, 02:47 AM   #31
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OK, so I've compared my K5+EE-S screen with a K7 + stock screen...

With my samyang 85/1.4, exposure is identical wide open. So I guess the screen brightness is identical with f/1.4 lenses.

With the DA18-55, the results are more complex:
- using standard metering, the K7 "sees" a slightly brighter scene at 18/3.5 (it underexposes by 1/3 stop in comparison), but then it "sees" a darker scene at f/5.6, and overexposes by a full stop compared to the K5+EE-S...
- the K7 has some hefty metering discrepancies between liveview and standard metering, too, more pronounced than with the EE-S screen!

From this, I think the stock screen is slightly brighter between f/1.8 and f/3.5, and about the same brightness at f/1.4 and f/4, which is quite consistent with commonly available stop-down results on the K7 screen.
Then, from f/4 on, the EE-S is in fact brighter than the stock screen.


Last edited by dlacouture; 05-04-2011 at 06:18 AM.
05-04-2011, 07:44 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
OK, so I've compared my K5+EE-S screen with a K7 + stock screen...

With my samyang 85/1.4, exposure is identical wide open. So I guess the screen brightness is identical with f/1.4 lenses.

With the DA18-55, the results are more complex:
- using standard metering, the K7 "sees" a slightly brighter scene at 18/3.5 (it underexposes by 1/3 stop in comparison), but then it "sees" a darker scene at f/5.6, and overexposes by a full stop compared to the K5+EE-S...
- the K7 has some hefty metering discrepancies between liveview and standard metering, too, more pronounced than with the EE-S screen!

From this, I think the stock screen is slightly brighter between f/1.8 and f/3.5, and about the same brightness at f/1.4 and f/4, which is quite consistent with commonly available stop-down results on the K7 screen.
Then, from f/4 on, the EE-S is in fact brighter than the stock screen.
That's interesting and seems to be just the opposite of what Adorama's description of the screen says. Or perhaps I read it wrong. Doesn't matter, I already know I'm going to have to try it myself. As far as the metering is concerned, I'm really not that concerned about it as a raw shooter, especially now with the K5, though it's obviously better if it causes underexposure rather than over. Thanks again for the info.
05-04-2011, 07:58 AM - 1 Like   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
That's interesting and seems to be just the opposite of what Adorama's description of the screen says. Or perhaps I read it wrong. Doesn't matter, I already know I'm going to have to try it myself. As far as the metering is concerned, I'm really not that concerned about it as a raw shooter, especially now with the K5, though it's obviously better if it causes underexposure rather than over. Thanks again for the info.
I ordered mine and will pick it up tomorrow.
Now I use a Katzeye with optibright and I really dont like it.
With some lenses I have to set it to -2 or even more to not get overexposed images and others I have to set to +1 or so. it also varies a lot if I have the light in my back, sideway or front. Much of this is probably user errors since Im fairly new at this but the problem is severe with some lenses and not at all with others. My SMC Tak 85mm f1.8 works perfectly all the time with no compensation at all while my Kiron 105mm f2.8 overexposes a lot. The standard K-5 screen workes much better and I hope the EE-S will be even better + show better DOF + not have any marks in the way of my compositioning.
The Katzeye's center focusing aid is often in the way so getting a perfectly clean screen will be marvelous.

Besides.... This Canon screen costs almost nothing compared to a Katzeye screen.. Absolutely worth a try and if it, for some reason, doesnt work Ill go back to the standard screen.
05-04-2011, 08:01 AM   #34
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Hummm, I don't know if my phrasing was good, seems to me you understood it backward... I'll rephrase it...

Compared to the Pentax stock screen :
- with f/1.4 and f/4 lenses, exposure will be identical
- with lenses between f/1.4 and f/4, the EE-S screen will produce a slight (+0.5) overexposure.
- with lenses below f/4, the EE-S screen will produce a -1Ev underexposure.

Now these differences are in fact due to a bad behavior from the stock screen. the EE-S screen behaves in a more coherent way, and I'm more confident using it than the stock screen.

05-04-2011, 08:13 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Hummm, I don't know if my phrasing was good, seems to me you understood it backward... I'll rephrase it...

Compared to the Pentax stock screen :
- with f/1.4 and f/4 lenses, exposure will be identical
- with lenses between f/1.4 and f/4, the EE-S screen will produce a slight (+0.5) overexposure.
- with lenses below f/4, the EE-S screen will produce a -1Ev underexposure.

Now these differences are in fact due to a bad behavior from the stock screen. the EE-S screen behaves in a more coherent way, and I'm more confident using it than the stock screen.
No, I think I got it. 75% of my shots are between f/2 and f/4, so it appears that the ee-S may cause slight overexposure most of the time for me. But it's no biggie, if that does indeed turn out to be the case, I can dial that in as a default.
05-04-2011, 08:22 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
No, I think I got it. 75% of my shots are between f/2 and f/4, so it appears that the ee-S may cause slight overexposure most of the time for me. But it's no biggie, if that does indeed turn out to be the case, I can dial that in as a default.
Only if your lenses are f/2 or f/2.8 PK-A lenses, or old stop-down lenses (m42 and PK-m) that you shoot at these apertures...
If they are f/1.4 or f/4 lenses, you won't see any differences.

EDIT : just had a look to your lenses, and your DA* f/2.8 lenses will indeed be exposed slightly higher.
All your FA ltd should behave just like before (or nearly so!).
But this means that your DA* should now give you identical exposure compared to your Ltds.
Could you try it right now? I bet your DA* currently underexpose slightly compared to your ltds...
05-04-2011, 08:42 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Only if your lenses are f/2 or f/2.8 PK-A lenses, or old stop-down lenses (m42 and PK-m) that you shoot at these apertures...
If they are f/1.4 or f/4 lenses, you won't see any differences.

EDIT : just had a look to your lenses, and your DA* f/2.8 lenses will indeed be exposed slightly higher.
All your FA ltd should behave just like before (or nearly so!).
But this means that your DA* should now give you identical exposure compared to your Ltds.
Could you try it right now? I bet your DA* currently underexpose slightly compared to your ltds...
They do, but I get some degree of underexposure from pretty much all my lenses. Could be because of the Katzeye currently installed. Again, not an issue to me as a raw shooter and preferable to overexposure. I would dial in EV Compensation to correct overexposure tendencies. The Zeiss underexpose on all Pentax bodies. But again, all of this is of secondary concern to me. Ability to manually focus is first and foremost to me. If the ee-S makes that easier for me, I can deal with whatever else (within reason) is involved.
05-04-2011, 09:08 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
The concentric circles are nearly invisible in the viewfinder... Sometimes, when stopped down to f/11-16 and looking for them, I can see them, but otherwise I'd swear it's a pure ground glass and nothing else.

I've really only noticed them while handling the screen to determine which way was up. Light played on the circles the same way it plays on a CD, so...

Regarding AF location and Spot meter, well, I was used to the ME-60 blank screen for my K5 (an unmarked screen)... But anyway, the selected AF point lights up during half-press, so it's easy to check from time to time where the AF sensor is.
In AF Auto mode, you can have a problem as you don't know which point will be used. But approximate locations are easy to determine, in relation to the bottom LCD information:
- leftmost AF point is above the AF point selection icon.
- second column is above aperture's "F"
- center column is between AF confirmation hexagon and Ev bar
- Third column is between Ev bar and "ISO Auto RAW" text
- Rightmost AF point is above ISO speed.

And for the spot meter, well, I'd use the center AF point as a rough guide...
Thx for the comments. Sounds like a great solution!

05-06-2011, 05:15 AM - 1 Like   #39
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Thank you dlacouture!

Got my screen today and after some work got it to fit nicely in my K-5
It is truly a wonderful screen compared to the default or my Katzeye.
Really nice focusing without the clutter and with a good narrow DOF.

I ended up using a 0.10 mm shim compared to 0.40mm standard.
It even works great with my Tam SP 60-300mm. In the 300mm that is f5.4.

Perfect timing too. It has rained for a week but today spring arrived, again, hopefully to stay and develope
05-06-2011, 07:02 AM   #40
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Could you comment on the screen brightness compared to the katzeye?
Do you experience overexposure or underexposure?
05-06-2011, 10:46 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Could you comment on the screen brightness compared to the katzeye?
Do you experience overexposure or underexposure?
I had severe problems with over and under exposure using my Katzeye but I did use a Katzeye for Kx modified to fit my K-5.

If I use TAv with Auto ISO I got huge overexposed images but if I use AV with Auto ISO it seemed to work well. This is only when I have light from front.
I havnt tested this very well. Just something I noticed and then changed to AV.

I have just enjoyed taking pictures with a clean viewfinder that shows a nice dof. Its so much easier to get the picture I want on the first try. Finding the perfect focus is also much much easier then with the Katzeye Split focus screen.
The brightness... cant really comment on that. Dont think its possible to really see the difference without having 2 cameras one with each screen and test them next to eachother.
I dont really care. Its a joy to take pictures now. I love it!
05-06-2011, 11:00 AM   #42
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dlacouture and aliasant,

Could you guys please post a bit more details about the procedure for trimming down the screen? I'd like to give this a go, but I'm likely quite naive. If I had to guess, I'd do something like:

1) Cover the EE-S with scotch tape on both sides.
2) Center my stock screen on top of the EE-S and pencil in all four edges including the notch.
3) Remove the stock screen and place the EE-S on a sturdy table with an old towel underneath.
4) Place the side to cut just off of the table, hold the screen with my left hand, a fine-tooth saw in my right, and go at it.
5) Repeat for all four sides. Remove scotch tape and blow off any particles with a rocket blower.

Does this sound right or am I totally off-base? Also, how do you guys account for the notch?
05-06-2011, 11:49 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffshaddix Quote
dlacouture and aliasant,

Could you guys please post a bit more details about the procedure for trimming down the screen? I'd like to give this a go, but I'm likely quite naive. If I had to guess, I'd do something like:

1) Cover the EE-S with scotch tape on both sides.
2) Center my stock screen on top of the EE-S and pencil in all four edges including the notch.
3) Remove the stock screen and place the EE-S on a sturdy table with an old towel underneath.
4) Place the side to cut just off of the table, hold the screen with my left hand, a fine-tooth saw in my right, and go at it.
5) Repeat for all four sides. Remove scotch tape and blow off any particles with a rocket blower.

Does this sound right or am I totally off-base? Also, how do you guys account for the notch?
Thats pretty close to what I did.
I did take some pictures so heres some of those.

I did use a cd marker to draw an X on both the original and the Canon screen and then place them like on the pictures to center them and draw around it.

Step 3 is were I went a different way.
I took an old piece of board and made a small recess that fits the entire Canon screen. Then used a fine saw and sawed thru the board + the screen.
After I was done I still had to file it down to a perfect fit.
Then I removed the tape and cleaned it using soap and finally CRC Electronic Cleaner. That eats up everything without leaving a trace and works well for other things like sticky apartureblades or dirty filters
Dont think a rocketblower will be enough but try that first.

Finally I went out and took some pictures
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05-06-2011, 11:53 AM   #44
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Well, I didn't bothered with the notch (or is it a tab?), but if I had to make one, I'd just saw the screen square anyway and then glue the tab afterwards... Less hassle this way.

And regarding your methodology, that's quite what I've done, and it works, but it's not scratch-proof as holding down such a tiny thing while cutting is quite hard...

What I'll do for the 2nd screen (my brother wants one) is to use a wooden block (maybe with some foam on it) with a ridge running at the back, slotted for the saw, so the screen is firmly blocked and cannot slip left, right or forward, and the saw is truly perpendicular.
05-06-2011, 11:54 AM   #45
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Wow, you really have to cut it down a lot, huh? Good idea putting it into that recess in the wood to hold it firm. I'm still kinda thinking about using a Dremel, but I wonder if perhaps the heat from friction would cause some ill effects.
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