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06-08-2014, 09:22 AM   #706
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Yes, I bought it to focus -- it is simply impossible with the stock screen. I use all manner of lenses from f/1.2 to f/6.3 and even a fixed f/11 sometimes! Any metering issues just have to be dealt with. Plus it isn't like I just automatically accept whatever the meter decides anyway, I just don't shoot like that. (Especially since most of my manual lenses also don't have contacts so I can only get center-weighted metering anyway.) The camera metering is a starting point, I usually snap off a shot and look at that histogram and adjust to what I want. The only real time this bites me is with the 18-250 super zoom and its highly variable aperture since the under-exposure gets worse as I zoom in and so when using zoom as part of composing the metering is changing all the time. Probably will just set that to center-weighted also to keep it under control and dial-in +.7 EV. And yeah, all these tests are making me real curious how the stock screen behaves.

I have yet to buy a K-3, but I am going to and I actually already have another unopened S-screen (with AF frame, which I do prefer) waiting to put in it. So now I'm questioning whether I will -- sounds like the stock screen is improved and maybe I'd just use LV for super-fast lenses. (My wife would thank me, she gets annoyed when I start explaining the compensating mechanisms she is supposed to use on the camera because of something I've done to it.) It sort of sounds though like the K-3 and K-5 aren't behaving all that differently with the screen? Will have to get me a K-3 to really find out I guess...

06-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #707
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
with the K-3 only someone who shoots f1.2 or f1.4 lenses manual focus all the time may benefit.
That's just crazy. It's already been shown that only lenses that are about f/4 or slower are really being affected, and to many of us they are not affected enough to be a deal breaker. My own tests showed my f/2 and 2.8 lenses to be completely unaffected.

The K-3 VF is better, but I didn't find it to be enough of an improvement to not want the s-screen installed. There are still plenty of instances of where it makes the difference between being able to focus and not being able to.
06-08-2014, 10:53 AM   #708
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
That's just crazy. It's already been shown that only lenses that are about f/4 or slower are really being affected, and to many of us they are not affected enough to be a deal breaker. My own tests showed my f/2 and 2.8 lenses to be completely unaffected.
Well he was just saying the stock screen on the K-3 is good enough except on ultra-fast f/1.4 or f/1.2...
06-08-2014, 12:46 PM   #709
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
That's just crazy. It's already been shown that only lenses that are about f/4 or slower are really being affected, and to many of us they are not affected enough to be a deal breaker. My own tests showed my f/2 and 2.8 lenses to be completely unaffected.

The K-3 VF is better, but I didn't find it to be enough of an improvement to not want the s-screen installed. There are still plenty of instances of where it makes the difference between being able to focus and not being able to.
The benefit is being able to focus manually. The K-5 was pretty bad, and the Ees screen improved it substantially, with limitations. The K-3 stock viewfinder is substantially better, and it isn't the no brainer decision that it was with the K-5.

06-08-2014, 01:02 PM   #710
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
The benefit is being able to focus manually. The K-5 was pretty bad, and the Ees screen improved it substantially, with limitations. The K-3 stock viewfinder is substantially better, and it isn't the no brainer decision that it was with the K-5.
Still a pretty obvious decision on the first day for me, with no regrets.
06-09-2014, 08:13 AM   #711
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QuoteOriginally posted by DogLover Quote
It's already been shown that only lenses that are about f/4 or slower are really being affected, and to many of us they are not affected (sic) enough to be a deal breaker.
"Many of us" is not necessarily the bulk of the users who might be interested in purchasing this screen. F/4 is within the aperture range of almost all the variable aperture zooms available in K-mount and certainly within the workflow range for anyone using stop-down metered lenses, even those with fast maximum apertures. All but two of my lenses fall into one of those two categories. For me, only being able to have consistent metering with two of my lenses is a distinct deal breaker. I would suspect the same for similar enthusiasts who dabble in vintage glass or those who depend on their camera for use with long lenses, most of which are f/3.5 and slower.

For sure there are workarounds such as chimp/redo for every shot or shooting in M-mode (measure using an external meter and shoot until light or subject change), but that is silly. I can get that experience and level of functionality with my meterless vintage cameras and without the weight and bulk of the K-3 or K-5.

As for my previous comment regarding unfixable underexposed shots. My comment was based on my experience the night before trying to salvage what should have been a striking landscape that was robbed of dynamic range due to 2+ stops underexposure (right toe of histogram was at midpoint). Perhaps I am just picky or should be more anal about histogram evaluation for every shot in the field.

Yes, the ease of focus is definitely there, but the tradeoff is unacceptable in my opinion. As for my next step, I would normally simply buy a KatzEye. They have proven compatibility, effective focus aides, and known characteristics for all Pentax models through the K-5 series. They also have excellent customer service. I have not moved that direction due to correspondence with Rachel Katz were she indicated that the they had not evaluated meter performance of their screen with the new metering system on the K-3. No since getting burned twice. Since that conversation, KatzEye has revised their product description to include language indicating that the user should be aware of potential metering issues. That is fair and appropriate. I wish focusingscreen.com would include similar cautions on their Web site.

Since I have no desire to be the guinea pig twice, I will wait to read other users experience with the K-3/KatzEye combination before moving that direction. In the mean time, the manual focus characteristics of the current stock screen are adequate...for now.


Steve
06-09-2014, 09:18 AM   #712
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
"Many of us" is not necessarily the bulk of the users who might be interested in purchasing this screen. F/4 is within the aperture range of almost all the variable aperture zooms available in K-mount and certainly within the workflow range for anyone using stop-down metered lenses, even those with fast maximum apertures. All but two of my lenses fall into one of those two categories. For me, only being able to have consistent metering with two of my lenses is a distinct deal breaker. I would suspect the same for similar enthusiasts who dabble in vintage glass or those who depend on their camera for use with long lenses, most of which are f/3.5 and slower.

For sure there are workarounds such as chimp/redo for every shot or shooting in M-mode (measure using an external meter and shoot until light or subject change), but that is silly. I can get that experience and level of functionality with my meterless vintage cameras and without the weight and bulk of the K-3 or K-5.

As for my previous comment regarding unfixable underexposed shots. My comment was based on my experience the night before trying to salvage what should have been a striking landscape that was robbed of dynamic range due to 2+ stops underexposure (right toe of histogram was at midpoint). Perhaps I am just picky or should be more anal about histogram evaluation for every shot in the field.
Well...*every* shot is a stretch...especially with non-zooms. Just a quick check of how the lens behaves, and dial-in some EV for that lens. I'm struggling to imagine a person as obviously as careful and deliberate as you are never checking the exposure of your shots, especially on a landscape. I mean, it isn't going anywhere, right? You just snap it off and that's that?

Anyway, even if the metering is spot-on what it is supposed to be, what it is supposed to be still runs from "straight mathematical calculation" for spot/center metering to something somewhat subjective in matrix mode. It doesn't yet read your mind and what it decides may or may not be appropriate -- to me the meter is just a starting point, a guide. Even if I'm shooting action where I can't adjust every second, still the conditions are liable to remain the same from shot to shot. As long as you are aware of it, the situations where it is a big deal to compensate for (i.e. more than a few seconds of adjustment once in a while, like when you change lenses) are few and far between, and the vast dynamic range of the sensor protects you in most cases. You could probably dial-in +.7 permanently and you'd be fine.
06-09-2014, 09:27 AM - 2 Likes   #713
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I think itīs good to remember that a focusing screen is not meant to comply every possible use (focal length, max aperture, focusing distance). Take a look at the LX focusing screens table by Mr. Dimitrov

So, there are focusing screens specially designed for ultra fast lenses, telephoto, ultra telephoto, macro lenses... And heīs not even talking about metering effects. So saying a consumer zoom such as 55-300 (or most slower than f/4 lenses) doesnīt work well with the ee-s screen is true, but it is a mistake to expect something else.

Soruce: Pentax Focusing Screens

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06-09-2014, 09:52 AM   #714
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QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
ISo, there are focusing screens specially designed for ultra fast lenses, telephoto, ultra telephoto, macro lenses... And heīs not even talking about metering effects. So saying a consumer zoom such as 55-300 (or most slower than f/4 lenses) doesnīt work well with the ee-s screen is true, but it is a mistake to expect something else.
Get your point, and shows that screens are geared towards different purposes. However, the LX is a bad example as far as exposure errors. Exposure was measured off the shutter (had a pattern) or of the film - hence no impact on exposure for different screens. Pretty cool...

---------- Post added 06-09-14 at 10:09 AM ----------

Actually different film emulsions could cause slight errors due to different colors of the film back, though as I recall the error was pretty small...

Last edited by HenrikDK; 06-09-2014 at 10:09 AM.
06-10-2014, 06:06 PM   #715
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
I'm struggling to imagine a person as obviously as careful and deliberate as you are never checking the exposure of your shots, especially on a landscape.
I don't chimp all the time, especially when in daylight when I can't see the rear LCD worth a darn. That is the short explanation.


Steve

---------- Post added 06-10-14 at 06:08 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by carrrlangas Quote
So saying a consumer zoom such as 55-300 (or most slower than f/4 lenses) doesnīt work well with the ee-s screen is true, but it is a mistake to expect something else.
Canon documentation indicates that the ee-s screen is designed for use with faster lenses with the downside being a dim view with with narrower maximum apertures.


Steve
06-28-2014, 04:00 PM   #716
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I was the bloke who took the 'economical route' to an Ee-s screen in the K-5

it has been very good apart from my fear of shimming
I just bought a K-5iis and was enjoying the frame marking in the view again,
Was planning to just swap my lovingly resized Ee-s but now tempted to buy a framed one
does this spending never end ?

Pete
06-30-2014, 06:01 AM   #717
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been also thinking about buying the S type (Ee-s) from focusingscreen.com for my k-50 since i have a couple of MF f1.4 lenses which are a pain when trying to focus wide open. not sure if its worth it though since I shoot a lot of landscapes at f8 and f11 and worrying about the VF getting too dark.
06-30-2014, 06:48 AM   #718
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QuoteOriginally posted by schnitzer79 Quote
been also thinking about buying the S type (Ee-s) from focusingscreen.com for my k-50 since i have a couple of MF f1.4 lenses which are a pain when trying to focus wide open. not sure if its worth it though since I shoot a lot of landscapes at f8 and f11 and worrying about the VF getting too dark.
The screen only goes dark if you are using a slow lens (max aperture of say f4).
06-30-2014, 06:54 AM   #719
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QuoteOriginally posted by HenrikDK Quote
The screen only goes dark if you are using a slow lens (max aperture of say f4).
Even then it's only an issue in low light. E.g., dim indoor light with an f/4 lens is indeed a challenge. But it's rare for me to shoot in such conditions so I don't consider it a problem. I've shot with an f/5.6 lens on a 2x teleconverter for an effective f/11 lens and find it workable in good light.
06-30-2014, 06:55 AM   #720
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If you are shooting at f8, with all that depth of field.. is accurate focus going to be crucial? Probably not. But when you wish to focus your f1.4 it will be amazing

That is assuming you just cant focus wide open anyway....

Last edited by tromboads; 06-30-2014 at 07:01 AM.
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