Pentax k5 dynamic range challenge.

ffureel · 05-07-2011, 02:39 AM

The dynamic range/ sensitivity of this camera has perked my interest.

I can see the great possibilities with the dynamic range, though would like a visual example for myself to prove the camera worth buying.

I really want the camera, love pentax of old especially the 67.

I currently have a gh1 mainly for video, not to keen on it for stills. Tend to shoot a lot of film, though want to get back into the digital side of stills or various reasons. Was looking to get a classic 5d like I used to have or even the mark 2. Having gone through old files I was reminded why I like film, especially negative. Massive dynamic range and latitude.

As soon as too much data of the 5d files go into the shadows it turns into a massive mess when pulling back.

From what I have seen the pentax files are beautiful. I have seen all of the underexposed then pulled back shots. Seen the DXO score card putting the k5 at the top. I have seen the high iso shots, first time I have seen digital noise that looks like film grain. Tight and sharp speckles instead of huge patches of mess I was used to seeing.

So on to the challenge, for anyone who wants try pull me over into pentax land.

-I would like a raw and jpeg file straight off the cam.
-I would like the scene to involve an indoor window shot with a human face as a subject. daylight, person infront of window looking inside, window with sky behind them.
- deep dof, something like f/8 ish.
- I would like the shot to be about 50% window/outdoor/ highlight, 50% indoor/ shadows. ie: not just a speck of outdoor highlight.

( something like : window | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

or

Window[Day170]* | Flickr - Photo Sharing! ) without the clipped highlights.

- Most importantly I want the exposure set to iso 80, fix aperture at f/8 ish then shutter speed to suit.
-I want the exposure set so that the highlight/ outside the window is not clipped. I want it so that the highlight is close to clipping but not quite, check histogram for clipping, flashing. This will and should put the subject deep into the shadows if the contrast in the scene is sufficient.
- If possible another shot with the highlights blown, exposed for the indoor subject would be great. Adjusting only shutter speed to achieve this.
-If you have a Panasonic gh1 too for a comparison identical shot that would be great, Canon... or even any other digital raw camera to see if this high dynamic sensor does indeed offer benefits over older technology.

Many thanks in advance,
Lee.

Emacs · 05-07-2011, 04:02 AM

Quote:

So on to the challenge, for anyone who wants try pull me over into pentax land.

Nobody cares
BTW, the DR is so wide modern monitors can't reproduce it. So it needs HDR-like tonemapping to show everything was captured.

Acheron · 05-07-2011, 04:50 AM

DR of typical computer screen is about 8.5 stops

JohnBee · 05-07-2011, 05:17 AM

While I certainly I can't speak for others, I get the impression that you're coming into this with a rather tall order.
Though what I think stands-out most in your post is that its your first post which I would call rather demanding.

Having said that, have you considered downloading RAW sample files from Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! and dpreview?

Also, under both dpreview and the pentax forums(here), you can find several posts where K-5 RAW files were pushed as high as 10 stops, which I believe some of them contain the original RAW file links. I also think there were a few other(if not several) posts since the launch of the K-5 that showed how much DR were in the files.

Though all in all, what really bothers me about your post is that it feels completely centrally located(<-pun

).
Which in turn, leads me to say, have you considered being a a little more community minded and less self serving?

JohnB

PS. I just woke up, so maybe I'm just carrying-over with unnecessary grumpiness. But that's what I see and felt when I read your post.

Chaos_Realm · 05-07-2011, 05:54 AM

I'd suggest If you wanna do something like this... go down to your local k-5 stockist with your memory card and give one a test. That way YOU can see the before and after and YOU can set up the shot how you want.

stevebrot · 05-07-2011, 07:01 AM

I will be a bit more indulgent than the above posts and suggest that your "assignment" has already been accomplished. See:

Pentax K-5 on Flickr

23K+ results, many of which are photos of the camera, but most are photos done with the camera, and a great many that satisfy your criteria. Happy browsing...

Steve

BTW...When you get your K-5 (you know you want one), be sure and share your photos!

Rupert · 05-07-2011, 07:13 AM

Personally, I feel no need to sell you a K5. If you just check out the photos on this site, and thousands on many other sites, you can see that this is "The Camera" to own. It has sold itself, all we did was use it.
Best Regards!

ffureel · 05-07-2011, 10:15 AM

OK,

I understand.

Chaos_Realm, thankYOU for the most useful reply.

Will let you know/ share photographs if I do decide to go with the k5.

RonHendriks1966 · 05-07-2011, 03:16 PM

I rescently made this picture, and it had about all the DR you can want.

Col · 05-07-2011, 03:39 PM

Not so typical British scene full sun at a fair

Now to see what's in the stalls

Rushing a graduated filter effect in LR3, means you can have the best of both worlds IMHO. You don't have to make a fake HDR as the K-5 is HDR to begin with.

Chaos_Realm · 05-07-2011, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by ffureel

OK,

I understand.

Chaos_Realm, thankYOU for the most useful reply.

Will let you know/ share photographs if I do decide to go with the k5.

Not a problem, I have been toying with the idea myself. I find its the best way to choose, as one person criteria is different to the next. You might have the money for a nikon D3x but doesn't mean you will like it for one reason or another.

dosdan · 05-08-2011, 04:53 AM

Col, how many stops is the shadows in the stalls being raised? You should be able to determine this by changing the EV boost in PP in LR on the original image until the inside of the stall matches your processed version.

Dan

Col · 05-08-2011, 05:41 AM

Originally posted by dosdan

Col, how many stops is the shadows in the stalls being raised? You should be able to determine this by changing the EV boost in PP in LR on the original image until the inside of the stall matches your processed version.

Dan

OK I tried that. The original LR3 adjustment on exposure was +1.45Ev and +50 Fill Light... Back tracking, and just using an exposure adjustment this was about equivalent to +3.0Ev for the same exposure under the awning (though the rest of the image goes to hell in a handcart

)

dosdan · 05-08-2011, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Col

OK I tried that. The original LR3 adjustment on exposure was +1.45Ev and +50 Fill Light... Back tracking, and just using an exposure adjustment this was about equivalent to +3.0Ev for the same exposure under the awning (though the rest of the image goes to hell in a handcart

)

Thank for that, Col.

I think anyone else who posts a scene with mixed methods of boosting the shadows in this thread should follow a similar procedure to state the equivalent EV boost in the shadows.

I'm interested in seeing backlit & semi-backlit examples as I occasionally face this situation when shooting sports.

Dan.

rawr · 05-09-2011, 12:11 PM - **1 Like**

For the OP, and others, speaking of indoor windows shots and the dynamic range of the K5 sensor vs Canon cameras, not to mention the different (and horrible) noise patterns that are distinctive to Canon...

Nikon DX vs Canon APS-C: Dynamic Range | TestCams.com

This is really useful - it's a set of three Youtube videos which

Quote:

"includes an extensive comparison of the dynamic range between the Nikon and Canon crop bodies, using real photographs to demonstrate the differences in practice. For this comparison I used a Nikon D5100 and Canon T2i (550D), but the results are also applicable for a Nikon D7000 [or Pentax K-5 - I think ] vs Canon 7D (or 60D, T3i), since each family of these bodies share identical or near-identical sensors. The Canon results can also be applied for the 5D Mark II, as it has similar dynamic range and cross-hatch banding characteristics as Canon’s 18MP crop sensor".

I also found it a useful tutorial on dynamic range and using Lightroom to recover shadows and highlights. I think everything he notes about the Nikon D5100 is easily applicable to the K5, given they share the same sensor. If anything, the K5 has even more DR headroom than the D5100.

And yes, it includes two indoor shots of windows as the example subject, but no human faces.

05-07-2011, 02:39 AM	#1
ffureel New Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2	Pentax k5 dynamic range challenge. The dynamic range/ sensitivity of this camera has perked my interest. I can see the great possibilities with the dynamic range, though would like a visual example for myself to prove the camera worth buying. I really want the camera, love pentax of old especially the 67. I currently have a gh1 mainly for video, not to keen on it for stills. Tend to shoot a lot of film, though want to get back into the digital side of stills or various reasons. Was looking to get a classic 5d like I used to have or even the mark 2. Having gone through old files I was reminded why I like film, especially negative. Massive dynamic range and latitude. As soon as too much data of the 5d files go into the shadows it turns into a massive mess when pulling back. From what I have seen the pentax files are beautiful. I have seen all of the underexposed then pulled back shots. Seen the DXO score card putting the k5 at the top. I have seen the high iso shots, first time I have seen digital noise that looks like film grain. Tight and sharp speckles instead of huge patches of mess I was used to seeing. So on to the challenge, for anyone who wants try pull me over into pentax land. -I would like a raw and jpeg file straight off the cam. -I would like the scene to involve an indoor window shot with a human face as a subject. daylight, person infront of window looking inside, window with sky behind them. - deep dof, something like f/8 ish. - I would like the shot to be about 50% window/outdoor/ highlight, 50% indoor/ shadows. ie: not just a speck of outdoor highlight. ( something like : window \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! or Window[Day170]* \| Flickr - Photo Sharing! ) without the clipped highlights. - Most importantly I want the exposure set to iso 80, fix aperture at f/8 ish then shutter speed to suit. -I want the exposure set so that the highlight/ outside the window is not clipped. I want it so that the highlight is close to clipping but not quite, check histogram for clipping, flashing. This will and should put the subject deep into the shadows if the contrast in the scene is sufficient. - If possible another shot with the highlights blown, exposed for the indoor subject would be great. Adjusting only shutter speed to achieve this. -If you have a Panasonic gh1 too for a comparison identical shot that would be great, Canon... or even any other digital raw camera to see if this high dynamic sensor does indeed offer benefits over older technology. Many thanks in advance, Lee.

05-07-2011, 03:39 PM	#10
Col Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Stansted Essex Photos: Gallery Posts: 614	My take from the last week Not so typical British scene full sun at a fair Now to see what's in the stalls Rushing a graduated filter effect in LR3, means you can have the best of both worlds IMHO. You don't have to make a fake HDR as the K-5 is HDR to begin with.

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05-07-2011, 04:02 AM	#2
Emacs Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Moscow Posts: 1,223	Quote: So on to the challenge, for anyone who wants try pull me over into pentax land. Nobody cares BTW, the DR is so wide modern monitors can't reproduce it. So it needs HDR-like tonemapping to show everything was captured.

05-07-2011, 04:50 AM	#3
Acheron Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Croatia Photos: Gallery Posts: 100	DR of typical computer screen is about 8.5 stops

05-07-2011, 05:17 AM	#4
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	While I certainly I can't speak for others, I get the impression that you're coming into this with a rather tall order. Though what I think stands-out most in your post is that its your first post which I would call rather demanding. Having said that, have you considered downloading RAW sample files from Digital Cameras, Digital Camera Reviews - The Imaging Resource! and dpreview? Also, under both dpreview and the pentax forums(here), you can find several posts where K-5 RAW files were pushed as high as 10 stops, which I believe some of them contain the original RAW file links. I also think there were a few other(if not several) posts since the launch of the K-5 that showed how much DR were in the files. Though all in all, what really bothers me about your post is that it feels completely centrally located(<-pun ). Which in turn, leads me to say, have you considered being a a little more community minded and less self serving? JohnB PS. I just woke up, so maybe I'm just carrying-over with unnecessary grumpiness. But that's what I see and felt when I read your post.

05-07-2011, 05:54 AM	#5
Chaos_Realm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,251	I'd suggest If you wanna do something like this... go down to your local k-5 stockist with your memory card and give one a test. That way YOU can see the before and after and YOU can set up the shot how you want.

05-07-2011, 07:01 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	I will be a bit more indulgent than the above posts and suggest that your "assignment" has already been accomplished. See: Pentax K-5 on Flickr 23K+ results, many of which are photos of the camera, but most are photos done with the camera, and a great many that satisfy your criteria. Happy browsing... Steve BTW...When you get your K-5 (you know you want one), be sure and share your photos!

05-07-2011, 07:13 AM	#7
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Personally, I feel no need to sell you a K5. If you just check out the photos on this site, and thousands on many other sites, you can see that this is "The Camera" to own. It has sold itself, all we did was use it. Best Regards!

05-07-2011, 10:15 AM	#8
ffureel New Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2 Original Poster	OK, I understand. Chaos_Realm, thankYOU for the most useful reply. Will let you know/ share photographs if I do decide to go with the k5.

05-07-2011, 03:16 PM	#9
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	I rescently made this picture, and it had about all the DR you can want.

05-07-2011, 08:26 PM	#11
Chaos_Realm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Melbourne, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,251	Originally posted by ffureel OK, I understand. Chaos_Realm, thankYOU for the most useful reply. Will let you know/ share photographs if I do decide to go with the k5. Not a problem, I have been toying with the idea myself. I find its the best way to choose, as one person criteria is different to the next. You might have the money for a nikon D3x but doesn't mean you will like it for one reason or another.

05-08-2011, 04:53 AM	#12
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Col, how many stops is the shadows in the stalls being raised? You should be able to determine this by changing the EV boost in PP in LR on the original image until the inside of the stall matches your processed version. Dan

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05-08-2011, 05:41 AM	#13
Col Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Stansted Essex Photos: Gallery Posts: 614	Originally posted by dosdan Col, how many stops is the shadows in the stalls being raised? You should be able to determine this by changing the EV boost in PP in LR on the original image until the inside of the stall matches your processed version. Dan OK I tried that. The original LR3 adjustment on exposure was +1.45Ev and +50 Fill Light... Back tracking, and just using an exposure adjustment this was about equivalent to +3.0Ev for the same exposure under the awning (though the rest of the image goes to hell in a handcart )

05-08-2011, 01:06 PM	#14
dosdan Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,741	Originally posted by Col OK I tried that. The original LR3 adjustment on exposure was +1.45Ev and +50 Fill Light... Back tracking, and just using an exposure adjustment this was about equivalent to +3.0Ev for the same exposure under the awning (though the rest of the image goes to hell in a handcart ) Thank for that, Col. I think anyone else who posts a scene with mixed methods of boosting the shadows in this thread should follow a similar procedure to state the equivalent EV boost in the shadows. I'm interested in seeing backlit & semi-backlit examples as I occasionally face this situation when shooting sports. Dan.

05-09-2011, 12:11 PM - 1 Like	#15
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	For the OP, and others, speaking of indoor windows shots and the dynamic range of the K5 sensor vs Canon cameras, not to mention the different (and horrible) noise patterns that are distinctive to Canon... Nikon DX vs Canon APS-C: Dynamic Range \| TestCams.com This is really useful - it's a set of three Youtube videos which Quote: "includes an extensive comparison of the dynamic range between the Nikon and Canon crop bodies, using real photographs to demonstrate the differences in practice. For this comparison I used a Nikon D5100 and Canon T2i (550D), but the results are also applicable for a Nikon D7000 [or Pentax K-5 - I think ] vs Canon 7D (or 60D, T3i), since each family of these bodies share identical or near-identical sensors. The Canon results can also be applied for the 5D Mark II, as it has similar dynamic range and cross-hatch banding characteristics as Canon’s 18MP crop sensor". I also found it a useful tutorial on dynamic range and using Lightroom to recover shadows and highlights. I think everything he notes about the Nikon D5100 is easily applicable to the K5, given they share the same sensor. If anything, the K5 has even more DR headroom than the D5100. And yes, it includes two indoor shots of windows as the example subject, but no human faces.